We Thought Heat Easily Moves From One Place To Another. We Were Wrong

Three objects of same heat capacity with temperature T 1 = 200 K T_1=200~\mbox{K} , T 2 = 400 K T_2=400~\mbox{K} and T 3 = 400 K T_3=400~\mbox{K} exchange heat with each other. They are isolated from the rest of the universe. Find the highest possible temperature one of them can reach in kelvin .

Details and assumptions:

  • You may connect them to a heat engine and/or to a refrigerator
  • The objects do not collide to generate heat energy


The answer is 487.69.

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2 solutions

Jung Hyun Ran
May 19, 2014

Are you allowed to introduce a heat engine? Then in principle you should be able to run it for a while off the temperature difference between the 200 200 K mass and one 400 K 400 K mass, and dump the resulting work into the second 400 K 400 K mass, making it hotter than any mass was to begin with.

The efficiency of the heat engine will start out at 50 % 50\% and decline as the source temperature differential gets used up. And the first two masses will converge at some temperature a bit below 300 K 300 K . I'm going to guesstimate that you could get 280 + 280 + 440 280+280+440 . If I get time I'll do an update with the exact calculation.

Update: Anonymous says in comments that it's not allowed to introduce a heat engine, but that would make it a rather brain-dead question, so I'll continue under my original interpretation. My first thought of running a maximally efficient heat engine between two of the masses and dumping the work into the third mass shows why it's an interesting problem, but it's not the optimum answer we were asked for, because turning work straight into heat creates entropy unnecessarily. If we design a custom reversible heat engine for this specific application, we should be able to keep entropy from increasing at all. Therefore the question becomes to find the state that has the same overall entropy and energy, but the maximum temperature of one of the masses.

We know that has to be with the other two masses at the same temperature, because otherwise we could run a heat engine per the original plan and do better. The weighted average temperature is T a v = 1000 / 3 = 333.3 K T_{av} = 1000/3=333.3 K , so both the initial and final states are one mass at T a v + Δ T T_{av}+\Delta T and two at T a v Δ T / 2 T_{av}-\Delta T/2 , where Δ T = 400 / 3 = 133.3 K \Delta T = -400/3=-133.3 K initially and later some positive value to be determined.

The entropy of any of the masses can be calculated by integrating d Q / T = C d T / T dQ/T=CdT/T from some reference temperature. Since we have no other information, let's assume the heat capacity C C is constant. That means we can't use T = 0 T=0 as a reference because the integral diverges, but we can use any temperature as a reference so it doesn't matter. (For a real object, C C would go to zero at T = 0 T=0 per the 3rd Law.) Then for each object C ln ( T / T a v ) C\ln(T/T_{av}) .

That means the total entropy is C ln ( T a v + Δ T T a v ) + 2 C ln ( T a v Δ T / 2 T a v ) C\ln(\frac{T_{av}+\Delta T}{T_{av}})+2C\ln(\frac{T_{av}-\Delta T/2}{T_{av}}) .

For the initial Δ T = 400 / 3 \Delta T = -400/3 , this comes to [ / m a t h ] C ln ( 125 / 108 ) [ / m a t h ] = 0.146183 C [/math]-C\ln(125/108)[/math] = -0.146183 C . (It has to be negative because the reference state is thermal equilibrium, so it has to be able to increase to get there.)

The other Δ T \Delta T giving the same Q turns out to be 100 ( 17 3 17 ) / 3 = 154.356 100(17-3\sqrt{17})/3=154.356 . So the final answer is that plus 1000 / 3 1000/3 or 487.689 K 487.689 K .

Can I say that this question is worded strangely?

Alexander Baumgartner - 5 years, 2 months ago

You took this straight off of quora - give credit to the original author

Brandon Benton - 4 years, 5 months ago

It's not allowed to introduce a heat engine!

Cristinel Codau - 4 years, 10 months ago
RisHabh Rps
Mar 5, 2014

This question is related to very interesting fact. It can only be done with the help of HEAT PUMP and REFRIGERATOR combination. Two of the temperature as 400K and 200K are used for heat pump which developes WORK and this work is used to run a refrigerator which also has a reservoir having 400K temperature which is third temperature. Thus you make a working system and now calculate it as given by JINAY :P

SO HOW WILL YOU GET 48769E-2

zalmey khan - 7 years, 2 months ago

The mechanics of the situation are of little importance. To maximize temperature differences, we must keep the entropy constant (it can't decrease), and the total energy should remain constant as well. This gives differential equations d T 1 + d T 2 + d T 3 = 0 , d T 1 T 1 + d T 2 T 2 + d T 3 T 3 = 0. dT_1+dT_2+dT_3 = 0,\ \ \ \frac{dT_1}{T_1}+\frac{dT_2}{T_2}+\frac{dT_3}{T_3} = 0. (I choose units such that c = 0 c = 0 .)

Integrating, T 1 + T 2 + T 3 = 1000 , T 1 T 2 T 3 = 3.2 1 0 7 . T_1 + T_2 + T_3 = 1000,\ \ \ T_1\cdot T_2\cdot T_3 = 3.2\cdot 10^7. Maximize any of the variables under these conditions. It is not difficult to see that this requires the other two variables to be equal. Thus T 1 = T 2 = 1 2 ( 1000 T 3 ) , T_1 = T_2 = \tfrac12(1000 - T_3), and 1 4 ( 1000 T 3 ) 2 T 3 = 3.2 1 0 7 . \tfrac14(1000-T_3)^2 \cdot T_3 = 3.2\cdot 10^7. I solved this numerically and found T 3 = 487.689 T_3 = 487.689 .

Arjen Vreugdenhil - 5 years, 7 months ago

please post some formula

Max B - 7 years, 1 month ago

I'm curious as to where one would acquire this heat engine, seeing that these three objects are "isolated from the rest of the universe."

Greg Whiteside - 4 years ago

where does that 3.2*10^7 come from?

Andrea Virgillito - 2 years, 9 months ago

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The integral of d T 1 / T 1 dT_1/T_1 is ln T 1 \ln T_1 , so the second differential equation gives ln T 1 + ln T 2 + ln T 3 = const \ln T_1 + \ln T_2 + \ln T_3 = \text{const} or (taking anti-logarithm) T 1 T 2 T 3 = const . T_1\cdot T_2\cdot T_3 = \text{const}. The value of the constant must be equal to the initial value, T 1 T 2 T 3 = 200 400 400 = 3.2 1 0 7 . T_1\cdot T_2\cdot T_3 = 200\cdot 400\cdot 400 = 3.2\cdot 10^7.

Arjen Vreugdenhil - 2 years, 9 months ago

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oh..it was so trivial, thank you sir

Andrea Virgillito - 2 years, 9 months ago

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