Help: Understanding infinity

Hello, i have a few questions regarding infinity, which i'd like to discuss with you all.

Is $ \frac{1}{0} = \infty $
Is $\frac{1}{\infty} = 0$
Is $\tan90^\circ = \pm\infty$
Is $\log_x0 = -\infty$

All my teachers tell me that the above expressions are undefined, and so is $\infty$ (undefined), and we cannot compare the two.

I understand that we cannot determine the exact value of the above expressions, but what is the problem of terming them as $\infty$ ?

On graphing these, we do notice that they approach infinity, so why say that they are undefined? You may say that infinity is a concept, and not an actual number, but then isn't everything a concept?

If the number 1 is defined, then what is its definition? 1? (circular proof) Every number is a concept, and I don't see how certain operations on them cannot lead to infinity, (another concept).

#Infinity #HelpMe! #Advice #Math

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Comments

Harshit,

There are numerous questions that you raise in this single discussion. In general, when you're asking for clarification, keeping things to a single question / query (and opening several discussions) could help ensure that you get proper replies to all of them.

I can classify the numerous questions that you raised in the following 4 broad categories:

1) What is infinity? Can we compare infinities? Can we do any arithmetic with infinities? What do those equations mean, if anything?

2) What concepts can be represented by another concept? For example, can the concept of 1 be represented by the number line? Can the concept of infinity be represented by the number line? Can the concept of pigeonhole principle be represented by the number line?

3) What is the definition of 1? How about 2, 3? How about 0? Is there a way to define it that isn't circular?

4) Why are some operations defined on some numbers, but not on others?

For the purposes of this discussion, let's keep it mainly to 1. If you're interested in the others, please open up another discussion topic for each of them.

Calvin Lin Staff - 8 years, 5 months ago

I have a similar post that involves both infinity and zero, it is also actually an "Unsolved Question".

Hasna Hassen - 1 year, 2 months ago

3) I'm pretty sure that you can define numbers with set theory.

Lâm Lê - 8 months, 2 weeks ago

1) I will (partially) answer the first part. The is significant theory involved, that I'm not going into detail about. If you are interested, you can read up on set theory.

The concept of infinity is best expressed using set theory. Without having to assume the existence of 0 or 1, we know that there is the empty set $\emptyset$ , Furthermore, we can build more sets by taking the union of their elements, or taking the set of the set. We know that there is the set of the empty set $\{ \emptyset \}$ . We know that there is the set of the union of them empty set and the previous set. $\{ \emptyset, \{ \emptyset \} \}$ . So on and so forth.

We say that 2 representations are equal, if there is a bijection between them. For example, $\{ \emptyset \}$ and $\{ \{ \emptyset \} \}$ are equivalent. (Prove the following statement using the transitive property of bijections.) These representations form an equivalence relation, which means that it doesn't matter which choice of representations we use.

This allows us to build up a concept of counting. We can let the a set of $n$ elements represent the integer $n$ . In the first paragraph, we gave representations of 0, 1 and 2. Verify for yourself that taking the union of 2 sets is equal to taking the sum of the integers that they represent. What does taking the set of a set do to the integer? I.e. What is $\{ (any set) \}$ equal to?

Any set that can be built up in this way (taking unions, and sets), is called a finite set. Any (nonnegative) integer that is represented in this way is finite.

An infinite set is a set that is not finite. An infinite number is a number represented by an infinite set. It is not obvious that an infinite set exists, since it is defined "not something".

You should show the following:

The set of natural numbers is an infinite set. Hint: To show this, show that it is not equivalent to any finite set. Hence, it is "not finite set".
The set of natural numbers is equivalent to the set of rational numbers
The set of natural numbers is not equivalent to the set of real numbers.

Calvin Lin Staff - 8 years, 5 months ago

1 Denote the set of natural numbers by N. Fix a natural number n. Denote the set whose n elements are indexed xi, i = 1 to n, by Xn. Consider the map F: Xn => N, F(xi) = i. Then n + 1 (and all higher natural numbers) cannot be in the range of F because Xn has only the n elements xi, i = 1 to n. That is, F cannot be onto. But then, N cannot be equivalent to any finite set because if the order of that finite set was n, the only maps from it into N are of the form F(p), where p is a map into Xn, mapping different elements of the arbitrarily chosen finite set onto different xi. Therefore, N is an infinite set.

2 Any rational number can be expressed in the form (a - b) / s, where a, b, and s are natural numbers. So if we could prove that some subset of N is equivalent to the set of ordered triples N^3, that N is equivalent to the set of rationals Q would follow. Denote the set of natural numbers divisible by no primes higher than 5 by V. Consider the map v: V => N^3, v(2^a 3^b 5^s) = (a, b, s). Because prime factorization in N (hence in V) is unique, v is one to one. We therefore have the cycle N => Q => N^3 => V => N, where S1 => S2 means S1 is equivalent to a subset of S2. As a side note, this logic easily extends to the fact that N is equivalent to the set of algebraic numbers A, which by definition is all complex numbers that satisfy polynomials of finite degree n, with coefficients in Q and with nth-power coefficient 1, except this time replace V with N itself (and use the fact that N is equivalent to Q).

3 Cantor's diagonal argument is our main tool for proving that N cannot be equivalent to set of real numbers R. It's easier if we replaced R with E, where the members of E are precisely the real numbers between 0 and 1 inclusive. Consider the map r: N => E, defined as follows:

r(0) = 0.a(0,0) a(0,1) a(0,2) a(0,3) ...

r(1) = 0.a(1,0) a(1,1) a(1,2) a(1,3) ...

r(2) = 0.a(2,0) a(2,1) a(2,2) a(2,3) ...

r(3) = 0.a(3,0) a(3,1) a(3,2) a(3,3) ...

and so on. Now consider x = 0.e0 e1 e2 e3 ... where

ei = a(i,i) + 5, 0 ≤ i ≤ 4,

ei = a(i,i) - 5, 5 ≤ i ≤ 9.

Now x cannot be in the range of r because if it was, each of the ei would equal the respective a(j,i) for some fixed j, and in particular ej would equal a(j,j) which it can't. Ergo, r cannot be onto. We can therefore conclude that N is not equivalent to E (and hence, to R).

Philip Mena - 3 years, 6 months ago

I have a doubt

0^n=0 Where n is any real number n^0=1

Where n is any real number

Then what is 0^0 ?
is it 0 or 1?

Bharath Raj - 5 years, 5 months ago

There's actually a wiki on it: What is $0^0$ .You can check that out.

Abdur Rehman Zahid - 5 years, 5 months ago

hi we dont no wht infinity is so we say that till now it is not defined. whn we divide any no. by very small no. surely quotient will be>>> tht means infinity\not defined.is answer

piyush kumar rai - 8 years, 5 months ago

IT IS UNMEASURABLE

NARENDER PALUGULA - 5 years, 3 months ago

I have a comment on one over zero: $\frac{1}{0}=\infty$ Multiply both sides by zero to remove the fraction bit. You get 1=0

Daniel Leong - 7 years, 10 months ago

We can show that any number is equal to any other number by setting $\frac{1}{0}=\infty$

Abdur Rehman Zahid - 6 years, 7 months ago

What is the probability that exactly one player gets all four aces if a randomly shuffled deck is dealt to four players?

vivek s - 5 years, 4 months ago

square ABCD divided into 18 smaller square. 17 squares of the sides of length 1. ABCD square area Find.

mahla salarmohammadi - 5 years, 2 months ago

excellent

T T - 2 years, 3 months ago

He said that the faster you go the slower the times is. But I have a problem whenever I come back to my home running intending the time will slow down for me and I think the faster I go the better are chances of me catching the lift to the 23rd floor but I never get it does going faster makes me fast or technically makes me feel slow?

Sameer Pahwa - 1 year, 8 months ago

How can direction of motion affect time ( i mean some particle is in future or past light cone ,something like that) If a clock is stationary and other is moving towards it and continues to pass by ,the stationery clock perceives the time differently ,plz explain ,as am getting same results in every situation

Vivek Bhal - 5 years ago

Water at 100°c is taken off the stove . In 5 minutes off the burner the temperature decreased to 85°c Given that the room temperature is 25°c and newtons law of cooling is followed find the temperature of the water in degrees Celsius after an additional 5 minutes

Else Amofah - 3 years, 7 months ago

how to solve dis problem? title" solving a second-order IVP" Y"-3y'+2y=e^-4t ;y(0)=1 ; y'(0)=5?

Ayes Bañanola - 3 years, 7 months ago

need to answer to correct.

Ayes Bañanola - 3 years, 7 months ago

i can't read your question,please clean cut

mahla salarmohammadi - 3 years, 5 months ago

@Mahla Salarmohammadi – *i can't know your question,please clean cut

mahla salarmohammadi - 3 years, 5 months ago

A Ferris wheel can be modeled, in meters, by the equation, r = 12 sin θ. The wheel makes one full rotation in 60 seconds.

If a rider starts at the bottom, how long would it take them to get the point 6 meters to the left of the starting point
How long would it take them to get to the point 3 meters to the left of them
How long would it take them to get to the point on the Ferris wheel closest to the polar coordinate (8, 150 degrees)

Aaa Aaa - 3 years, 5 months ago

If we have f= 3,1,4,1,5,1,... find {f (n)}. please answer me,helppp

mahla salarmohammadi - 3 years, 5 months ago

Hello friends, I got struck at question related to phi function in number theory. The question is as follows If \frac{n-1}{phi(n)} is a positive integer, then prove that no prime p is such that \frac{n}{p^2}.

Advitiya Ohm Tripathi - 3 years ago

There were two problems that really kept me awake. Here I give you both of them. 1. Find at least one natural number (let's name it a) which satisfies given conditions: 2a is equal to a natural number squared; 3a is equal to a third degree of a natural number; 5a is equal to a fifth degree of a natural number; 2. Equations x^2+2ax+b^2=0 and x^2+2bx+c^2=0 both have 2 different solutions. Prove that x^2+2cx+a^2=0 has no real solutions.

Matas Bašinskas - 2 years, 11 months ago

How can l calculate the radius of a nucleus of a particular element

Spriha Basir - 2 years, 4 months ago

No real idea... but you can check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDlrqcwpfJs

Please note that I am not promoting any videos but just for further explanation.

Syed Hamza Khalid - 2 years, 4 months ago

Thanks for replying

Spriha Basir - 2 years, 4 months ago

@Spriha Basir – You are most welcome :)

Syed Hamza Khalid - 2 years, 4 months ago

only after you have learded the advanced mathemmatics can you understand the problem well

Mathem Matics - 2 years, 4 months ago

Hello! how are you?

Mirage LaBelle - 2 years, 3 months ago

Here is a problem I'd appreciate your help.

Does anyone know of a way to cut a circle in three segments each of equal area by starting the cut from the same point on the circle's circumference.

Niko Tsiopinis - 3 months ago

Integration of [e^(ax).ln(x)]

Abhishek Mehta - 5 years, 4 months ago

Post this as a note. It will reach to more people that way.

Abdur Rehman Zahid - 5 years, 4 months ago

Need to simplify: (((x+∛(2ax^2 )) (2a+∛4ax)^(-1)-1)/(∛x-∛2a)-(2a)^(-1/3) )^(-6)

mohiuddin resalat - 3 years, 4 months ago

solve for x: sin^-1[sin(2x^2=4 by 1=x^2)] < pi -3

Anu Radha - 3 years, 3 months ago

Did you mean $sin^-1[sin(2x^2=4 by 1=x^2)] < pi -3$

Brendon Teong - 10 months, 1 week ago

SOME ONE HEIP ME

Bilgees Alburati - 3 years, 2 months ago

SOME ONE HELP ME ANY ONE

Bilgees Alburati - 3 years, 2 months ago

FOR WHAT????????

Syed Hamza Khalid - 2 years, 9 months ago

@Syed Hamza Khalid – $\text{The capital letters might be a bit rude.}$

Brendon Teong - 10 months, 1 week ago

HELLO

Bilgees Alburati - 3 years, 2 months ago

Math	Appears as
Remember to wrap math in `\(` ... `\)` or `\[` ... `\]` to ensure proper formatting.
`2 \times 3`	$2 \times 3$
`2^{34}`	$2^{34}$
`a_{i-1}`	$a_{i-1}$
`\frac{2}{3}`	$\frac{2}{3}$
`\sqrt{2}`	$\sqrt{2}$
`\sum_{i=1}^3`	$\sum_{i=1}^3$
`\sin \theta`	$\sin \theta$
`\boxed{123}`	$\boxed{123}$