Power of the Heart of Gold
Is there a way to calculate the probability of aliens existing and you finding out that your best friend is an alien, then getting lost in space and almost dying, until your crush comes in a cool spaceship with your best friends cousin? (HHGTTG Reference)
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A Former Brilliant Member
11 months ago
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Gods do exist, but some are annoying drama queens (cough...Zeus...cough), my dad is a good god(Posiedon) @Siddharth Chakravarty and @David Stiff
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No Posiedon is not good, don't you know what he did with Medusa.
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Well, that was Athena, and gods aren't supposed to interfere with mortal curses anyways. What I mean is Posiedon has been much better than the others, and he's a good dad. @Siddharth Chakravarty
τι στο καλό είναι αυτό!
Di Immortales! You guys are writing essays on gods here while the note remains totally unrelated!
υπάρχουν μόνο ελληνικοί θεοί, σύμφωνα με εμένα, καθώς είμαι γιος ενός ελληνικού θεού, του Ποσειδώνα
Stop acting like an βλάκας and stop discussing using essays, it hurts my brain.
Holy Zeus, now I'm cursing in Greek!
(You probably don't speak Greek as you are mortals so put that in google translate @Siddharth Chakravarty and @David Stiff )
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Didn't you also you use google translate to write in Greek? And yea I know this has gone out of the note's topic? But it better to write long essays, rather than replying in 1 sentences, sorry if your brain hurts.
Yes, sorry Percy. :)
No problem, my brain hurts from dreams not this, demigod dreams are horrible. Also, sorry for the vlakas part, hehe, pu it in translate and see why i apologised!
NO, because for probability you need to know the possible no. of outcomes, there are a lot of possibilities, but IDK if it is infinite may be close to it until we impose any conditions or restrictions, anyways it would be a chance very close to 0 but you know it could be true. This is all an uncertainty, only 0% and 100% make real sense. And you cannot even find if something is true or not, it is all a belief, science is also a belief based on observations. But you never know maybe reality doesn't exist. This are all possibilities we don't know which is true. The only way to know the truth is to look from the outside perspective as like if you write a story, where you know what is happening with each character without any uncertainty, but the characters don't know. So we exist in the story of God may be, also a possibility. But is it necessary that God should exist? Who created GOD, and who created the creator of God and so on...
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Siddharth, the answer to this problem is that God has always existed. As you pointed out, it would make no sense for God to have been created. And yes, it is necessary for God to exist. Try this problem to see why!
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What is the proof that God has always existed? It could not be an axiom. The universe could have properties like self-creation. Suppose there is no world, no creation no universe but there is still information existing. The information would be "There is no information apart from this information" so information is not created nor destroyed in this sense. Although I think God exists (but this is my own belief) but I still am unsure if God exists, there is no proof and how can you say it makes no sense for God to be created, it's upon your definition. It will create a never-ending loop of creators. There is an uncertainty in our constraints so referring any idea as wrong is not proper. Check bootstrap paradox, where the origin of things is lost. Also, your problem has constraints which you have assumed true, but have no proof and will not due to the fundamental uncertainty nature of information from a certain 1-sided perspective. I mean everything that has a beginning has a cause as you said is defined for everything but we cannot know everything because it is uncertain to know if what we know is everything or not. God exists I think if we only assume the reality what we perceive as true, but this could all be false. What are you? How do you feel conscious? Am I real and you all are actors? I am uncertain, only from a perspective of all I could know this, which is not possible because this is itself uncertain.
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These are all good questions! To answer the first one (why must God have always existed), we can look at the never-ending loop you mentioned. An eternal God is the only solution to stop this loop of creating creators, for nothing created him. In eternity past, he always existed. There was no one before him. Then he created the universe we live in.
He did not even self-create, and neither did the universe, for nothing can create itself. It is a logical fallacy, for the thing self-creating would need to exist beforehand to create itself. But then, it would already exist.
And finally, as regards your question about the nature of reality, it is true that many people today question things like consciousness and reality. But these people fail to realize that to even discuss these things shows that they do in fact believe them to be true! And it is quite ironic when scientists and professors talk about such things as reality being a simulation, when they themselves have built their careers thanks to reality being real!
At the bottom of all this lies the simple truth that no one can prove, beyond a shadow of doubt, what happened in the unrecorded past. No one is still here who saw what happened at the beginning, or else we'd have asked them by now. It boils down to a belief.
I believe that God created the world we live in. And not only this, but he has given us a written record of the origin of the world (so I guess someone was there we can ask!) which most people call the Bible, or God's Word. He has told us many other things as well, including how to be saved from judgement, and how to inherit eternal life.
I would greatly recommend reading this article. It addresses nearly every question you asked! :)
And for more on what God's Word tells us this article and others on that website are all great resources!
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for writing in brief, but this is an open-ended thought, you have proposed a thesis and I could propose an antithesis as long there are no conditions, and about self-creation we don't know if the universe was really created, just because how we feel of how we exist, maybe its all a lie. Whatever we think is maybe, not is. Leaving logic and mathematics everything is mere belief. Now if the universe somehow gets stuck in a loop, there would be no existence of God. You are talking about the solution to avoid the loop. i.e God is not created. But if you check Hindusim, there is the trinity(who created the universe as per the mythology) and there is OM, the creator of them. However this is mythology, and I am not promoting, I am secular and I am still finding if God exists, or how does it? I am saying I could do rebuttal for whatever you say, so debating in a way is not much help on this topic, but the debate on how to remove this uncertainty would be very useful.
We are also not sure if the Bible or the Gita(Hindu holy book) are the words of God. They could be words of a wise man, who could manipulate people very well. Although I do not want religion to come in our discussion, I merely want to take the ideas of creation what are present in these books and the ideas in the scientific world and perform synthesis with logic, approve or reject ideas thinking very carefully.
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While it is again a matter which must come to faith, we can certainly use logical reasoning and probability to determine which book is to be trusted more. For instance, the Bible was written over a period of 2000 years by over 40 writers writing as God directed them, and yet all their writings agree! One book will make a prophecy, and another book, hundreds of years later will report the exact fulfillment of that prophecy. And this happens over and over again, for close to 400 prophecies! Manuscripts copied out in the first centuries A.D. match manuscripts written hundreds of years before. And all of the events recorded in the Bible are real historical events, most verifiable by archaeology and other written records. To the best of my knowledge, I know of no other supposedly "divine" book with all of these characteristics. So which would you rather believe?
And even more importantly, when we stand before a holy God when we die, every one of us will be condemned unless we choose the way of salvation now, in the present. It will be too late then. God has graciously provided salvation to all who will come to him. He is a loving God, not like the angry, violent gods of most other religions, and his desire is for man to be saved. That is why he has provided a free way of salvation, through his son the Lord Jesus.
Thanks for being so open to this discussion Siddharth. Most people would instantly shut it down. Keep seeking the truth!
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In India, Gita is thought to have the same characteristics as the ones you mentioned. There are many other Hindu books which are older than Bible which to the precise even calculated the distance to the sun. Although thanks for the compliment, I am not so attached to any religion, I am still finding my answers and I know how good the Bible is also, as I have studied in a convent school. So I won't promote Hindusim either, although there are a lot of accurate calculations in the books. And it is my dream to defy death, though if you read my bio it indirectly says that. But for now, I am still not convinced with some ideas of the God, and by logic I mean not to say like creation is important for existence, but to understand what exactly is happening? Are we hidden from some truth? Thanks to you also @David Stiff for this debate, but we still did not conclude much. The thing is reality is not necessarily what we see, or what we feel it is upon you to believe what you want. We are uncertain and will be of what is true.
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You're welcome Siddharth! I just wanted to leave you with one thought. You said that it is your dream to defy death. Here is what I believe God has said in his word (this comes from John chapter 5):
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
We could go on speculating forever about the nature of reality, even up until we die! But then we would be unprepared for what happens after death, which we know is certain. Instead, I would challenge you to think about what you can do now to prepare for later. Don't worry about the reality of the present. Worry about the reality of the future!
(P.S. I would REALLY recommend reading the gospel according to John. Especially chapter 3. :) Thanks again for the discussion!)
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I am uncertain whether this are words of the God or not, or rather the words of an alien. Idk plus Idk if death is a universal truth. IDK if there is heaven or hell, or just nothing happens. So I will try my best to not die because I am very scared of death because it is something which IDK what it is. I think it will be of no use to find what's after death because I would then have to research something which no currently-living being has experienced. So I have to research on defying death, and there is nothing I can do if death arrives before. You can check epigenome theory which can allow ageing back as they predict. And maybe quantum entanglement to teleport from harmful events. But I still don't know, I am researching. I am also assuming that the law of nature won't change the next second. So I know I have less time, idk reality. Maybe I'm special and you all are actors, but IDK and there is no way also to prove. So it is all uncertain
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But Siddharth, there IS a currently-living being who has experienced death! The son of God, the Lord Jesus, became man, lived a sinless life, and died a sacrificial death. But he rose again, and is alive with God today! He HAS told us what comes after death. For those who have believed in him, there is eternal life. But for those who have not, there awaits eternal death.
Siddharth, I am not afraid of death. I have no fear at all! I know that when I die, I will live eternally with my God forever, in heaven. This is my hope as a believer, because I know where I am going where I die. Christ's death has removed the fear of death for me, because he has removed the judgement which would have awaited me before.
And finally, I know you have been having a hard time with "knowing" whether or not things are true. But God has said this: "whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him" (from Hebrews 11). You must have faith! No, you may not be able to understand it all now, but if you ask God, he will give you the faith you need to come to him.
He will save you Siddharth. He will give you faith to believe. You need only to come to him in humility and repentance: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (from John 1).
@Akela Chana, @Siddharth Chakravarty, @Vinayak Srivastava