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Lemma : For any equation f(x) of degree n to have all it's roots real , it must be true that all the roots of fr(x) must also have it's all roots real , where 1≤r≤n. BUT THE CONVERSE IS NOT TRUE.
Proof : If you see this graphically . we observe that if all the roots of f(x) of degree n are real , then it must be true that the graph of the polynomial must take turns n−1 times or we can say that f′(x) must be 0 for n−1 values including multiplicity of roots.
So proceeding this way leads us to the desired result.
So, if the equation in the question has all it's roots real , then it's third derivative must also have all it's roots real i.e. 60x2+24ax+6b=0 has all it's roots real.
⇒D≥0⇒2a2≥5b.
But the conditions provided in the question are contrary to what is an essential for all the roots to be real.Hence , all the roots of the equation can't be real.
Suppose that the roots of the equation are x1,x2,x3,x4,x5 , all ∈R
By AM-GM Inequality , we have xi2+xj2≥2xixj .
Writing similarly and adding for all pairs of (i,j) such that 1≤i<j≤5.
We get 4i=1∑5xi2≥21≤i<j≤5∑xixj
Adding 81≤i<j≤5∑xixj both sides we get
4(i=1∑5xi)2≥101≤i<j≤5∑xixj
Using Vieta's Relations : i=1∑5xi=a,1≤i<j≤5∑xixj=b
Therefore , we get 2a2≥5b.
But the condition given in the question is just the contrary to what is an essential for all roots to be real..Hence the equation can't have all it's roots real under the given condition of 2a2<5b
@Rahil Sehgal I have fixed a minor issue here...The symbol should be greater than equal to in that box..I had earlier mentioned a strict inequality there.
@Rahil Sehgal
–
You can try this ...Inequality is back..I have posted that today itself.
And even this Algebraic Manipulation ..you can see that discussion link in the contributions tab in my profile.
Are you assuming that xi are all real roots here? If that's not the case, then you cannot apply AM-GM at all as xi2 can be negative. I'm assuming this is a proof by contradiction but for that first you need to highlight the point xi are all real.
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Let x1,x2⋯x5 be the real roots of the polynomial P(x)
Then x1+x2+⋯+x5=S=−a
Let ∑x1⋅x2=T
Then you can directly prove by applying AM -GM twice
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Exactly..You got it correct..By the way..There is an algebraic proof also..I mean a proof using no inequalities.
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I will try to prove it without inequalities....
Btw nice question. Have u made it yourself?
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I have summarized your solution as solution 1 to the problem ..See that..
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Thanks... I was thinking to post it but a hint is actually enough.
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SOLUTION 2:
Lemma : For any equation f(x) of degree n to have all it's roots real , it must be true that all the roots of fr(x) must also have it's all roots real , where 1≤r≤n. BUT THE CONVERSE IS NOT TRUE.
Proof : If you see this graphically . we observe that if all the roots of f(x) of degree n are real , then it must be true that the graph of the polynomial must take turns n−1 times or we can say that f′(x) must be 0 for n−1 values including multiplicity of roots.
So proceeding this way leads us to the desired result.
So, if the equation in the question has all it's roots real , then it's third derivative must also have all it's roots real i.e. 60x2+24ax+6b=0 has all it's roots real.
⇒D≥0⇒2a2≥5b.
But the conditions provided in the question are contrary to what is an essential for all the roots to be real.Hence , all the roots of the equation can't be real.
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Thank you very much (+1)
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:) :)
@Rahil Sehgal Here is an inequality problem..
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Do we need to find the discriminant (D) of the equation to prove this?
If D ≥ 0 then only roots are real.
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But there is no discriminant for a degree 5 equation ..as far as I know..Tell me if I am wrong.
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For a polynomial P(x)=anxn+an−1xn−1+⋯+a1x+a0 having roots x1,x2,…,xn (counting multiplicity), its discriminant is: Δ=an2n−21≤i<j≤n∏(xi−xj)2
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this
SeeLog in to reply
this
SeeYou can use this ...Consider that all the roots of the equation are real..Then try to introduce some inequalities to get the desired result.
SOLUTION 1:
Suppose that the roots of the equation are x1,x2,x3,x4,x5 , all ∈R
By AM-GM Inequality , we have xi2+xj2≥2xixj .
Writing similarly and adding for all pairs of (i,j) such that 1≤i<j≤5.
We get 4i=1∑5xi2≥21≤i<j≤5∑xixj
Adding 81≤i<j≤5∑xixj both sides we get
4(i=1∑5xi)2≥101≤i<j≤5∑xixj
Using Vieta's Relations : i=1∑5xi=a,1≤i<j≤5∑xixj=b
Therefore , we get 2a2≥5b.
But the condition given in the question is just the contrary to what is an essential for all roots to be real..Hence the equation can't have all it's roots real under the given condition of 2a2<5b
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Can you please post the solution 2 ( without inequalities).
This method is actually the elaboration of my solution.
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Oh..yes sorry..I used the wrong word 'summarized' , it should be 'elaborated'.
@Rahil Sehgal I have fixed a minor issue here...The symbol should be greater than equal to in that box..I had earlier mentioned a strict inequality there.
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Thanks... I didn't notice that much.
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Are you assuming that xi are all real roots here? If that's not the case, then you cannot apply AM-GM at all as xi2 can be negative. I'm assuming this is a proof by contradiction but for that first you need to highlight the point xi are all real.
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Thanks!...I have edited the solution. :)
@Md Zuhair @Aditya Narayan Sharma @Anirudh Sreekumar@Brian Charlesworth@Pi Han Goh Please post your solutions!
It will help everyone know alternate solutions to the problem,
@Tapas Mazumdar@Kushal Bose@Akshat Sharda Post your solutions guys.