A rotating cylinder in a magnetic field

A neutral solid conducting cylinder rotates about its axis with angular speed 1600 rad/s 1600~\mbox{rad/s} . In addition, there is an external magnetic field of induction B B directed along the cylinder's axis. What must the magnitude of the magnetic field in Teslas so that no electric field is created inside the conductor?

Hint: The material is originally neutral. If electric fields are created, then what would that imply about the distribution of the electrons in the metal?

Details and assumptions

The specific charge of the electron is e / m e = 1.76 × 1 0 11 C/kg e/m_{e}=1.76\times 10^{11}~\mbox{C/kg} .


The answer is 9.09E-9.

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5 solutions

Discussions for this problem are now closed

From experience, if we spin a non-rigid body then it will expand. But most materials we encounter are rigid, and spinning them does not result in any noticeable expansion. This is because the internal forces become greater and provide the necessary centripetal force. The internal forces are generally chemical in nature, and chemical forces are essentially always electrostatic (dipole-dipole attraction of atoms/molecules or Coulomb attraction of ions). Thus, spinning a conductor would result in an internal electrical force to provide the centripetal acceleration.

But we are given that there is no internal electric field! Thus, the centripetal force must be provided by something else, and the only other thing it can be is the given magnetic field. Magnetic force act as follows: F B = q v × B {\bf F}_B = q {\bf v} \times {\bf B}

We only care about magnitudes here, and the simple rotation allows us to state that v = ω r v = \omega r . The rotation also means that all the velocity is in the plane of rotation, so v {\bf v} is orthogonal to B {\bf B} . This means that v × B = v B |{\bf v} \times {\bf B}| = v B . Finally, to put the centripetal statement above into symbols, we have: F c e n t = F B F_{cent} = F_B . Putting this all together, we have: m ω 2 r = F c e n t = F B = q v B = q ω r B m \omega^2 r = F_{cent} = F_B = q v B = q \omega r B

Simplifying: B = m ω q B = \frac{m \omega}{q}

We note that the point particles whose m m and q q we desire are electrons, as those are the free charge carriers abundant in conductors. Thus: B = m ω q = ω ( e m e ) 1 B = \frac{m \omega}{q} = \omega \left(\frac{e}{m_e}\right)^{-1} B = ( 1600 s 1 ) ( 1.76 × 1 0 11 C / k g ) 1 = 9.09 × 1 0 9 T B = (1600 \ \mathrm{s}^{-1}) (1.76 \times 10^{11} \ \mathrm{C} / \mathrm{k g})^{-1} = \boxed{9.09 \times 10^{-9} \ \mathrm{T}}

This is the desired answer.

why only mass of electron taken..... what about masses proton and neutron.? please explain

anish das - 7 years, 7 months ago

In the simplest model of a conductor, the nuclei of the material (as well as the inner electron shells) are fixed while the valence electrons are bound so loosely that they are influenced entirely by external forces. When there is an imbalance of charge near a conductor, it is the electrons that rearrange themselves so that there are no internal electric fields, as otherwise there would be an internal electric force which would move the electrons. Note that the nuclei remain fixed.

Although this "electron sea" model is not entirely accurate, it is an assumption that must be made.

Alexander Bourzutschky - 7 years, 7 months ago
Gabriel Lisboa
May 20, 2014

In this problem, we must recall two facts about electrical conductors:

  1. There is no electric field inside it;
  2. Its electrons are free to move across its surface .

Since the charges will be in movement (because the cylinder is rotating) and will be in the presense of a magnetic field, a magnetic force will appear. And, by the left-hand rule, we know that it will be towards the cylinder's axis:

F 1 = e v × B F_1 = -ev \times B ,

where v v is the velocity of the electron and e e its charge. The minus signal indicates the force is towards the axis.

Let our frame move together with the cylinder. Hence, a centrifugal force will appears:

F 2 = m e v ² / R F_2 = m_e v² /R .

But keep in mind that the material is originally neutral; and that its charges are kept in its surface. If, for instance, one electron leave the surface, there would be a resulting charge on the surface, and, therefore, a resulting electrical field from the cylinder. As we don't want this happens, no electrons can leave the surface. Therefore, the resulting force on each electron must be 0 0 .

Therefore,

F 1 + F 2 = 0 F_1 + F_2 = 0 ,

e v B = m v ² / R evB=mv²/R ,

e B = m v / r eB=mv/r .

But because v = ω R v = \omega R , we have e B = m ω eB = m \omega . Hence,

B = m e e ω B = \frac{m_e}{e}\omega .

Using the data given in the problem, we get finally

B = 1600 1.76 1 0 11 B = \frac{1600}{1.76*10^{11}} 9.09 1 0 9 \approx 9.09*10^{-9} .

John Khoo
Oct 28, 2013

The conductor is originally neutral, implying that the electrons in it are all evenly distributed amongst the positive, immobile nuclei. However, the rotation creates an electric field, implying that this distribution is changed, creating regions of unequal charge, and ergo an electric field between them.

Indeed, the equation for centripetal force is F = m r ω 2 F = mr\omega^{2} , where ω \omega is the angular velocity, r r is the radius and m m is the mass. This implies that the force on the electrons increases the further they are from the axis of rotation, and therefore that the electrons in the conductor are all being drawn towards the axis of rotation, causing the centre of the conductor to be negatively charged and the parts of it further from the centre to be positively charged. This sets up an electric field.

For the magnetic field to prevent the creation of this electric field, the Lorentz force it causes has to counteract the centripetal force. Since the equation for the Lorentz force is F = B q v F = Bqv , where q q is the charge, this gives us the following equation to work with: B q v = m r ω 2 Bqv = mr\omega^{2} .

However, we have a rogue v v in this equation, so to remove it, we substitute in v = r ω v = r\omega , which gives B q r ω = m r ω 2 Bqr\omega = mr\omega^{2} .

Cancelling r ω r\omega , we get B q = m ω Bq = m\omega , which, fortunately, gets rid of the r r . Divide on both sides by q q , and we get B = m q ω = ( 1.76 × 1 0 11 ) 1 ( 1600 ) = 9.09 × 1 0 9 B = \frac{m}{q}\omega = (1.76 \times 10^{11})^{-1}(1600) = \boxed{9.09 \times 10^{-9}} , quod erat demonstrandum .

"This implies that the force on the electrons increases the further they are from the axis of rotation, and therefore that the electrons in the conductor are all being drawn towards the axis of rotation, causing the centre of the conductor to be negatively charged and the parts of it further from the centre to be positively charged."

This seems to be reversed. The inertia of the electrons causes them to be forced outward, so that it is the outer part of the cylinder that is negatively charged. If the inner part is negatively charged, what's stopping those electrons from flying outward?

Alexander Bourzutschky - 7 years, 7 months ago

Hmm...why would the inertia of the electrons force them outwards?

John Khoo - 7 years, 7 months ago

The electrons want to continue in a straight line path, but the conductor is curving away from them, so they move outward. To provide the necessary centripetal force, there must be an inward electrical force, so the charge distribution would be the reverse of what you have.

If the negatively charged electrons are on the inside, as you state here, then In the frame of the rotating electrons, they would be pulled outwards not only by the electrostatic force of the outer positive charge but also by the outward centrifugal force (since we are in a rotating frame). The situation would be unstable.

Alexander Bourzutschky - 7 years, 7 months ago

@Alexander Bourzutschky I see. So it seems I made a mistake in my solution. Thanks for taking the time to correct me.

John Khoo - 7 years, 7 months ago

The two forces acting on the electrons are the centripetal force due to rotation and the magnetic force due to the external magnetic field. If there is no electric field created inside the conductor, the two forces should cancel. The centripetal force is given by F c = m e ω 2 R F_c=m_e\omega^2R where m e m_e is the mass of the electron, ω \omega is the angular velocity, and R R is the radius of the solid conductor.The magnetic force is given by F B = e ω R B F_B=e\omega RB where e e is the charge of one electron and B B is the magnitude of the magnetic field. Equating these two, e ω R B = m e ω 2 R e\omega RB=m_e \omega^2 R e B m e = ω \frac{eB}{m_e}=\omega B = ω e / m e B=\frac{\omega}{e/m_e} Plugging the values in, B = 1600 1.76 × 1 0 11 = 9.09 × 1 0 9 B=\frac{1600}{1.76\times 10^{11}}=\boxed{9.09\times 10^{-9}}

This is slightly misleading. There is one force acting on the electrons, the magnetic force, and this is the centripetal force. The centripetal force is not a force of its own. When Earth revolves around the sun, there is only one force acting on it: the gravitational force. This is the centripetal force, or, more precisely, this provides the necessary centripetal force to keep Earth in its rotation .

Alexander Bourzutschky - 7 years, 7 months ago

Let the radius of the cylinder be r r , and let its rotational velocity be ω \omega . Consider an electron on the outer shell of the cylinder. The linear velocity of this electron will be v = ω r v= \omega r . The forces acting on it are:
i) Outward centrifugal force with magnitude m v 2 r = m ω × v \frac{mv^2}{r} = m \omega \times v
ii) Inward Lorentz force with magnitude e v B evB
Since the net electric force is zero, the electron must be at equilibrium, hence the magnitudes of these forces must be equal. Equating, we obtain: e v B = m ω × v evB= m \omega \times v B = m ω e \implies B= \frac{m \omega}{e} Plugging in the values, we obtain B 9.09 × 1 0 9 Teslas B \approx \boxed{9.09 \times 10^{-9} \text{ Teslas}} .


Lorentz Force is given by the equation F = q ( E + v × B ) F=q(\vec E + \vec v \times \vec B) , where E is the Electric field at that point and v is the velocity of the charge and, B is the magnetic field at that point,with q being the charge. \vec E \text{is the Electric field at that point and} \vec v \text{is the velocity of the charge and,} \vec B \text{is the magnetic field at that point,with q being the charge.}

Lord Aejeth - 7 years, 7 months ago

Here we have E = 0 |\vec{E}|=0 .

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 7 months ago

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