A very Edgy Problem!

A cylinder is kept on the edge of a very rough table such that the edge and the axis of the cylinder lie on the same vertical plane. At that instant, there occurs some disturbance that produce slight push on the cylinder. If

I : θ c \theta_c is the angle through which the cylinder rotates before leaving the plane of the table

II : v c m v_{cm} is the speed of the centre of mass of the cylinder just before leaving the plane of the table

III : c c is the ratio of the translation to rotational kinetic energies of the cylinder when its centre of mass is in the horizontal line of the edge.

Evaluate 7 cos θ c + v c m + c \Large 7\cos\!\theta_c + v_{cm} + c .

Details and Assumptions

  • Sufficient friction is present so that even a very small displacement causes rotation without slipping.

  • Radius of the cylinder R = 0.7 m R = 0.7\text{ m} .

  • Take g = 10 ms 2 g = 10\text{ ms}^{-2} .


The answer is 12.

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1 solution

Kishore S. Shenoy
Sep 27, 2015

Conserving Energy,

m g R ( 1 cos θ c ) = 1 2 m v 2 + 1 2 I ω 2 Since it is performing pure rolling, ω = v R m g R ( 1 cos θ c ) = 2 m v 2 + m v 2 4 = 3 m v 2 4 v 2 = 4 3 g R ( 1 cos θ c ) ( 1 ) \begin{aligned}mgR(1-\cos\theta_c) &= \frac{1}{2}mv^2 + \frac{1}{2}I\omega^2\\ \text{Since it is performing pure rolling, }\omega &= \dfrac{v}{R}\\ \Rightarrow mgR(1-\cos\theta_c) &= \dfrac{2mv^2+mv^2}{4}\\&=\dfrac{3mv^2}{4}\\ \Rightarrow v^2 &= \dfrac43gR(1-\cos\theta_c)\cdots(1)\end{aligned}

Now, for performing rotation,

m g cos θ c N = m v 2 R mg\cos\theta_c - \mathbb{N} = \dfrac{mv^2}{R}

When the contact is lost, N = 0 \mathbb{N} = 0

g R cos θ c = v 2 ( 2 ) \Rightarrow gR\cos\theta_c = v^2\cdots(2)

( 1 ) = ( 2 ) g R cos θ c = 4 3 g R ( 1 cos θ c ) cos θ c = 4 7 \begin{aligned} (1) &= (2)\\ \Rightarrow gR\cos\theta_c &= \frac{4}{3}gR(1-\cos\theta_c)\end{aligned} \\ \Large\Rightarrow \boxed{\cos\theta_c = \dfrac{4}{7}}\\

v c m = v = g R cos θ c = 4 g R 7 = 4 × 10 × 0.7 7 = 2 v c m = 2 \displaystyle\begin{aligned}v_{cm} &= v\\ &=\sqrt{gR\cos\theta_c}\\&=\sqrt{\dfrac{4gR}{7}}\\&=\sqrt{\dfrac{4\times10\times0.7}{7}}\\&= 2\end{aligned}\\ \Large\boxed{v_{cm} = 2}\\

K E t r a n when leaving = 1 2 m v c m 2 = 1 2 m g R cos θ c = 2 4 m g R cos θ c K E r o t = 1 4 m R 2 2 ( v R ) 2 = 1 4 m g R cos θ c When the axis of the cylinder is in horizontal line of the edge, Δ h = R cos θ c Hence K E t r a n = K E 0 t r a n s + m g Δ h = 2 4 m g R cos θ c + m g R cos θ c = 6 4 m g R cos θ c Hence R a t i o = 6 c = 6 \begin{aligned}KE_{tran\text{ when leaving}} &= \frac{1}{2}mv_cm^2\\&=\frac{1}{2}mgR\cos\theta_c\\&=\frac{2}{4}mgR\cos\theta_c\\ KE_{rot} &= \dfrac{1}{4}\dfrac{mR^2}{2}\left(\dfrac{v}{R}\right)^2\\ &=\frac{1}{4}mgR\cos\theta_c\\ \text{When the axis}&\text{ of the cylinder is in horizontal line of the edge, }\Delta h = R\cos\theta_c\\ \text{Hence } KE_{tran} &= KE_{0_{trans}} + mg\Delta h\\&= \frac{2}{4}mgR\cos\theta_c + mgR\cos\theta_c\\&=\frac{6}{4}mgR\cos\theta_c\\ \text{Hence }Ratio &= 6 \end{aligned}\\ \Large\boxed{c = 6}


7 cos θ c + v c m + c = 4 + 2 + 6 = 12 \Huge\therefore\boxed{7\cos\theta_c + v_{cm} + c = 4+2+6 = 12}

It is a previous year iit question.

Aditya Kumar - 5 years, 8 months ago

i study in fiitjee and it is in my fiitjee archive

Akash singh - 5 years, 8 months ago

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It is a 1995 IIT Subjective question.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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you also study in fiitjee???

Akash singh - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Akash Singh It seems I do! Yes

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy which centre?

i in mumbai(thane)

Akash singh - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Akash Singh Kochi Centre

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy This Is The Original Method (Conventional One).Nice Work!! I Did It By Using ICR(Instantaneous Centre Of Rotation) It Reduced Some Calculation Work .

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal ICR should be the point of contact right?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Currently I Am Trying Your Problem Named "A Long Slipway"

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal All the best!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy Yes You Are Right!!

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy Yes that'll work but to get K E r o t KE_{rot} and K E t r a n KE_{tran} individually right...

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Yes the individual energies can be calculated more quickly by using icr

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Can you explain?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Once We Evaluate the angular velocity of the cylinder at the moment of leaving contact then as there will be no external torque the rotational kinetic energy will not change. only the change in translational kinetic energy will come due to the work done by gravity.

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Ya! I meant you'll get K E r o t + K E t r a n KE_{rot} + KE_{tran} till losing contact.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy You can try my problem https://brilliant.org/problems/rolling-on-a-movable-wedge/?group=zEXJPwhKmXoJ&ref_id=965112

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Are you in FIITJEE?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Yep in fiitjee east delhi!

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal I'm at Kochi.

Did you get the answer for long slipway?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Nope. but i will try till i do not get it

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy So Are You In Sankalp Batch(CM Batch)?

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal No Pinnacle Batch. You?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy I am in sankalp

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Hmm. and is that Sankalp Test meant for you batch along with us?

I did not write it since it had portions which were not taught.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Well I Dont About other centres. but at our centre only the students of sankalp batch were allowed to sit for it . i scored really bad in physics in that test !

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Yeah! I heard it was tough.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Yes It Was very very calculative and lengthy though the problems were not conceptually tough!

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Ohh! I see...

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Prakhar Bindal Do you want hint for that slipway?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy I Will Not Hesitate in asking you if i dont get it in 2-3 days (till then i think i will be able to do it) :)

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal All the best! Try Slippery Pulley also!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy me too i am in pinnacle

Akash singh - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Akash Singh Oh! WoW. So, where did you reach... In portions? Phase 3? When is Phase exam for you?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy 17 oct -phase 2 test

Akash singh - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Akash Singh Phase 2 or 3?? We have 3 then

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy you are too ahead then(phase 3)

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh Oh wow! We have Phase 3 JEE Mains Tomorrow

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy so best of luck

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh Thank you!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy what is ur ai2ts-2 rank? and how was ur mains??

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh Mains was ok. A boring phase it is, with Inorganic Chemistry. We (some people from our batch) had missed half of Phase 2 when we shifted to Fastrack Batch and A i 2 T S 2 Ai^2TS-2 had portions that we missed. So, I do not hope to get a good rank... :(

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy what is fastrack batch?

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh You don't have Fast Track batches?? Those are batches where portions are taken well ahead so that in the end we will have more than month for revision... I thought fastrack batches were present all over FIITJEE...

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Are Fast track and CM Batches Different??

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Yup Cult Metamorphosis and Fastrack Batches are different indeed

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy we have axis batch

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh IDK about that! Try this!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy I Think Your Centre Does Not Follow The Plan That Has Been Setup For All FIITJEE Centres . Because Gaseous State Was There In Phase 1 As Far As I Remember . Are You Appearing In KVPY

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal WHAT!?! We had Basic Concepts of Chemistry, Redox Reactions and Titrations, and Atomic Structure for Phase 1. Chemical Bonding, Gaseous State and Thermodynamics and Thermochemistry for Phase 2. Yes, but I am not preparing for it well

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy OK . I Got It

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Hey, I think FIITJEE Chennai Region follows this pattern...

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Yeah I Think So. Which Chapter Is Currently Being Taught To You (We Are Being Taught Binomial Theorem,Elasticity And Hydrocarbon)

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Actually, our math faculty finished Inverse Trigonometry and Binomial Theoram in Phase 3(BT - Phase 4 and Inv Trig - Phase 5) and we finished Elasticity and SHM and Fluids ind Physics. We are now being taught Organic Chemistry(Don't know Hydrocarbons OR GOC"

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy Ohh Thats too good. You Are Even Ahead Than A CM Batch

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal But you are in Sankalp right! That is the best batch! Join Slack!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy What is slack??

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Try this

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy The Problem Is A Bouncer . I Know Integration To The Extent It Is Required In Mechanics . :P

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal But it's easy, I say. Try doing parts! Check solution and upvote it :P

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

@Kishore S. Shenoy The Phase Test Must Be The Internal One (Only on your centre) . because as far as i know the All India Phase 2 Is Scheduled On 8th November . Did You Gave AIITS-2 . How Much r u expecting ?

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal ai2ts rank-281(112 marks)

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh AI2TS Rank - 26 (149 Marks P-63 , C-30,M-56 (Shit) )

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal I got Physics 63!! Hi five! But I did not know a thing in Gaseous state...All negative Chemistry 1. I forgot my math mark. My classmate got AIR 25. His Marks P-63, M-67, C-19(I'm not sure about Chemistry)

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 7 months ago

@Prakhar Bindal what shit? i got p-43 c-23 m-48 (i have right to say shit not u!!)

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh i Am Saying shit because i did two calculation errors in maths (Wrote square root of 32 as 4 ) which costed me 8 marks could have easily got 64 in maths :(

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal i see where i stand because i wrote 3+2=1

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Akash Singh Ha Ha . Its Quite Common Mistake To Do Wrong Arithmetic In Examination Hall. God Knows When Will I Learn To Overcome Then :P

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 7 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal still i have less scope of getting in top 50 (all i deserve is top 150 max)

Akash singh - 5 years, 7 months ago

@Prakhar Bindal Can you please explain the ICR method?

A Former Brilliant Member - 4 years, 6 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member ICR method is employed to find out T r , I C R T_{r,ICR} at the point of slip. Then used ω \omega to find the T r , C M T_{r,CM} and finally conserve energy to get ratio.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 4 years, 6 months ago

But I got it from FIITJEE Archive 😂😜

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

Easy one !

Aniket Sanghi - 4 years, 2 months ago

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