A weird system of equations.

Algebra Level 2

{ x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 1 4 x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 1 6 \begin{cases} x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}=\frac{1}{4} \\\\ x^{3}+y^{3}+z^{3}=\frac{1}{6} \end{cases}

How many real solutions ( x , y , z ) (x, y, z) does the system above have?

0 1 3 9 27

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15 solutions

From the first equation we get that x , y , z < 1 2 x, y, z <\frac{1}{2} .

x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 3 2 × 1 6 = 3 2 ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}=\frac{3}{2} \times \frac{1}{6} = \frac{3}{2} (x^{3}+y^{3}+z^{3})

Therefore x 2 ( 1 3 2 x ) + y 2 ( 1 3 2 y ) + z 2 ( 1 3 2 z ) = 0 x^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}x)+y^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}y)+z^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}z)=0

But 1 3 2 x > 1 3 4 = 1 4 1-\frac{3}{2}x> 1-\frac{3}{4} = \frac{1}{4}

Therefore x 2 ( 1 3 2 x ) x^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}x) is greater than 0 0 or equal to 0 0 but x 2 ( 1 3 2 x ) + y 2 ( 1 3 2 y ) + z 2 ( 1 3 2 z ) = 0 x^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}x)+y^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}y)+z^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}z)=0 so x 2 ( 1 3 2 x ) = 0 x^{2}(1-\frac{3}{2}x)=0 and this means x = 0 , y = 0 , z = 0 x=0, y=0, z=0 which is not a solution.

I didn't understand the last two lines Why is 1 -3/2x more than 1/4? Couldn't 1-3/2y be negative?

Juan Eduardo Ynsil Alfaro - 3 years, 1 month ago

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It follows from the bound on x, y and z that they are less or equal than 1/2.

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

We know x is in the range [-0.5, 0.5], so 1-(3/2)x will be in the range [0.25, 1.75]. A negative value for x makes 1 - (3/2)x greater, not lesser.

Mel Nicholson - 3 years, 1 month ago

How can you say that x,y,z <1/2? May be one of them is 1/2 and rest two are 0.

Mayank Madhukar - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Yeah you are right! There shuld be <= sign instead

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

From the comments I think some people didn't follow your last line. Allow me to expand it a bit.

We know x^{2}(1 - \frac{3}{2}) >= 0. Same for the y-based and z-based terms. If three non-negative terms add to zero, they must each equal zero. If x^{2} times a positive quantity is zero, the x^{2} is zero and x is zero. Same for y,z. This contradicts x^{2} + y^{2} + z^{2} = \frac{1}{4}, so there can be no solution.

Mel Nicholson - 3 years, 1 month ago

All I did was look at it, mentally explore a few possibilities through my mind, then figured it to be 0. No extensive math included.

Half-god Dragon - 3 years ago
Paul Gartner
Apr 16, 2018

Taking the double of each unknown shows that the sum of their sqares is 1, while the sum of the cubes is 8/6, i. e. greater than 1. This is absurd, since a higher power of a number below unity is smaller.

You have to be careful about that argument.

For example, it is possible that x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 1 x^3 + y^3 + z^3 = 1 and x 4 + y 4 + z 4 = 8 / 6 x^4 + y^4 + z^ 4 = 8 / 6 . There is a bit more going on here that isn't written in your solution as yet.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Sure, cubes can be also negative, sqares cannot. But I thought I can leave out the obvious. Give readership some credit.

Paul Gartner - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Right, that's the difference.

In general, it's better to be explicit with the details, then hoping that every single reader can fill in the gaps.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago
Richard Desper
Apr 18, 2018

To build on Paul Gartner's solution:

Consider the transformation ( t , u , v ) = 2 ( x , y , z ) (t,u,v) = 2*(x,y,z) . Then t 2 + u 2 + v 2 = 1 t^2 + u^2 + v^2 = 1 and t 3 + u 3 + v 3 = 4 3 . t^3 + u^3 + v^3 = \frac{4}{3}. The first equation here implies that all the variables are of magnitude at most 1, and thus t 3 t 2 |t|^3 \leq |t|^2 , and u 3 u 2 |u|^3 \leq |u|^2 and v 3 v 2 |v|^3 \leq|v|^2 .

This gives us the chain of inequalities:

t 3 + u 3 + v 3 t 3 + u 3 + v 3 t 2 + u 2 + v 2 = t 2 + u 2 + v 2 = 1 |t^3 + u^3 + v^3| \leq |t^3| + |u^3| + |v^3| \leq |t|^2 + |u|^2 + |v|^2 = t^2 + u^2 + v^2 = 1

The first inequality is because a + b a + b |a + b| \leq |a| + |b| for all real numbers a , b a,b . The second inequality is because the magnitudes of all the variables is bounded by 1. The absolute value signs may be removed because squaring the numbers makes them all non-negative.

In conclusion t 3 + u 3 + v 3 1 < 4 / 3 |t^3 + u^3 +v^3| \leq 1 < 4/3 , meaning no solution is possible.

Alexander Sanchez
Apr 18, 2018

Suppose, for contradiction, that v = ( x , y , z ) R 3 v=(x,y,z) \in R^{3} such that the system is satisfied by x,y,z. Then, v 2 = 4 1 2 = 1 2 , v 3 = 6 1 3 ||v||_{2} = 4^{-\frac{1}{2}} = \frac{1}{2}, ||v||_{3} = 6^{-\frac{1}{3}} by the definition of the L p L^{p} norms. Hence, v 3 v 2 ||v||_{3}\leq ||v||_{2} by the basic properties of L p L^{p} norms. On the other hand, 6 1 3 > 1 2 6^{-\frac{1}{3}} > \frac{1}{2} . This is a contradiction. Hence, no such vector solves the system; the system has no solutions.

x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 1 6 x^{3}+y^{3}+z^{3}=\frac{1}{6}

x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 1 4 x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}=\frac{1}{4}

Multiply the first equation by 3 2 \frac{3}{2} to get 3 2 ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) = 1 4 \frac{3}{2}(x^{3}+y^{3}+z^{3})=\frac{1}{4} .

So x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 3 2 ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) = 1 4 x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2}=\frac{3}{2}(x^{3}+y^{3}+z^{3})=\frac{1}{4} .

Now rewrite like 3 2 x × x 2 + 3 2 y × y 2 + 3 2 z × z 2 = x 2 + y 2 + z 2 \frac{3}{2}x\times x^{2}+\frac{3}{2}y\times y^{2}+\frac{3}{2}z\times z^{2}=x^{2}+y^{2}+z^{2} .

We see that x = y = z = 2 3 x=y=z=\frac{2}{3} which does not satisfy the system.

Moderator note:

This solution makes a common error. Can you find it?

Hint: Check out this misconception wiki page .

You need to be careful with this approach since I am not convinced that the last line follows from the previous one.

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

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For example it has a solution ( 1 , 1 , 0.69875 ) (1,1,~ -0.69875)

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

How not? All 3x/2, 3y/2, 3z/s need to be 1.

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Not necessairly since you don't make functions equal you look for specific numerical solutions. Some overflow from x can go to z and everything will even out.

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

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@Robert Szafarczyk Don't getcha bro.

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 1 month ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member I just try to justify why you cannot imply that 3 2 x = 1 \frac {3}{2} x = 1 just by looking at the previous equation

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

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@Robert Szafarczyk @Daniel Stone Put another way, suppose that for some fixed values of x , y , z x, y, z , we have x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = a x 2 + b y 2 + c z 2 x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = ax^2 + by^2 + cz^2 , must it be true that a = b = c = 1 a = b = c = 1 ?

What's happening here is that you are confusing the concept of x x as a variable vs x x as a constant.
IE If we had the equality x = a x x = ax holds true for all values of x x , then we can conclude that a = 1 a = 1 .
However, if we had to solve the equation x = a x x = ax for a specific value of x x , then we cannot conclude that a = 1 a = 1 . In fact, we can only conclude that " If a 1 a \neq 1 , then x = 0 x =0 ".

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

@Robert Szafarczyk @Calvin Lin Could you help us here?

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 1 month ago

@Calvin Lin Is it because I equated squares with cubes and could therefore be equating a positive value to a negative value?

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 1 month ago

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That's a possible interpretation, depending on how you interpret it.

Essentially what you are saying is that if a + b + c = A + B + C a + b + c = A + B + C , then we must have a = A , b = B , c = C a = A, b = B, c =C .
Yes, these variables have some relationship to them.
However, it is still not true that if f ( a ) + f ( b ) + f ( c ) = g ( a ) + g ( b ) + g ( c ) f(a) + f(b) + f(c) = g(a) + g(b) + g(c) , then f ( a ) = g ( a ) , f ( b ) = g ( b ) , f ( c ) = g ( c ) f(a) = g(a), f(b) = g(b) , f(c) = g(c) .

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

Ok. So I am wrong in saying that the coefficients 3x/2, 3y/2, and 3z/2 of the left side sum of squares are equal to the coeffiecients of 1 in the sum of squares in the right side. Gotcha. Thanks!!!

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Right! Glad you identified the error.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago
Gabriel Jones
Apr 19, 2018

Wolfram Alpha

Shows no real roots

Such a great solution. Love it :)

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

Amazing solution my friend! :D

Andrei Macarie - 3 years, 1 month ago
Grégory Dorval
Apr 17, 2018

Let {x = a, y = b, z = c} by a solution. Then { x = a, y = c, z = b} would also be a solution. This implies the number of triplets be a multiple of 3!. The only possible answer given the choices is 0.

Your argument fails if x=y=\=z is a solution I think.

Jack Heimrath - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Indeed. Furthermore, x = y = z x = y = z will yield only 1 solution, so we cannot even conclude that the number of solutions is a multiple of 3.

As an example, x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 0 x^2 + y^2 + z^ 2 = 0 only has 1 solution over the reals.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

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I stand corrected! Thank you!

Grégory Dorval - 3 years, 1 month ago

They are a pair of concentric spheres with different radios, so, there is not interception.

My fault,I read the coefficients in a wrong way. Downvote to myself

Moderator note:

This is not correct; only one of the graphs is of a sphere. Here are what the two looked like when graphed together:

x³+y³+z³=k doesn't represent a sphere

Alok Anand - 3 years, 1 month ago

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That is correct

Michael Wang - 3 years, 1 month ago

There should be an option to downvote factually incorrect 'solutions'

Anindya Mahajan - 3 years, 1 month ago

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This would result in chaos on some of the basic level problems.

I have manually changed the votes and added a picture.

Jason Dyer Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

The second equation is not a sphere. However plotting the two surfaces (using e.g. mathematica) looks very cool, and you can see the neat way that the 3D cubic wraps itself partly around the sphere.

Peter Macgregor - 3 years, 1 month ago

This is obviously incorrect but somehow you've managed to end up with the right answer. Well played my friend.

Simon The Great - 3 years, 1 month ago

one is a sphere, and the another one es a 3d hiperbolic toroid?, if there existed intersection, it would be some kind of closed pseudo-ellipse, or in some limit case, at most 8 points of tangency (one in each 3d semi-space , around cero) , in which case, the answer would be, cero or eight

Santiago Ve - 3 years, 1 month ago

Another way of graphing it - looking at a cross section between z=-0.5 and z=0.5

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/yuzyncbnor

Alexander Crawford - 3 years, 1 month ago
John Lee
Apr 21, 2018

We can solve it by it's geometric meaning. So, the answer is just the number of these 2 graphs' intersections.

The first equation stands for a spherical surface, whose radius equals 1 2 \frac{1}{2} , it's highly symmetrical. :)

The second equation is also symmetrical, which means, if you found a solution/point ( x 0 , y 0 , z 0 ) (x_{0}, y_{0}, z_{0}) in octant I (where x > 0 , y > 0 a n d z > 0 x>0, y>0 and z>0 ) , just rotate it 2 times through the line x = y = z x=y=z , and you will get another 2 solutions, they are ( y 0 , z 0 , x 0 ) (y_{0}, z_{0}, x_{0}) and ( z 0 , x 0 , y 0 ) (z_{0}, x_{0}, y_{0}) . (only when that point does not belong to the line).

So the answer can be divided by 3! without remainder.

Assume that x = y = z = 3 6 x = y = z = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{6} , this does not satisfy the second equation.

The only choice is zero. XD

First equation is the equation of the surface of a sphere of diameter 1. The second equation is the equation of the VOLUME of a sphere of cubic root radius of 1/6, smaller than the radius of the surface : no contact between the volume and the surface ; no solution.

cordier jean-pierre - 2 years, 9 months ago
Ed Sirett
Apr 21, 2018

In a 3D graphing program, solid modeller or other such, create the 0.5 radius sphere. This is the set of points which solver the first equation. Then model the surface over the range |x|<0.5 and |y|<0.5 of z = (1/6 - x^3 -y^3)^(1/3). Then explore in 3D. You can see the surface never gets to touch or intersect the sphere.

Brendan Kinnell
Apr 19, 2018

By graphing both equations, you can see that there is no intersection. Check it out!

Sumit Jha
Apr 18, 2018

First equation is of eqa of sphere of radius 1/2 . To have a solution of given system of equations, we need second curve should cut the sphere at some place. From second equation, highest value of x(y=z=0) = cube root of 1/6 << 1/2 radius of sphere. So, there is no real solution for this system of equations

Maybe I misunderstood your solution but 1 6 3 = 0.5503... > 0.5 \sqrt[3]{\frac {1}{6}} = 0.5503... > 0.5 .

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

Hm, that just says that when y = z = 0 y = z = 0 , there is no real solution. Why does that imply otherwise?

E.g. The system x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 1 4 , x 3 + 100 y 3 + 100 z 3 = 1 6 x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = \frac{1}{4} , x^3 + 100 y^3 + 100 z^3 = \frac{1}{6} has a real solution.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

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I think he just miscalculated 1 6 3 \sqrt [3]{\frac {1}{6}} . If it was less than 1 2 \frac {1}{2} this solution would be valid because the shape of the second equation would be inside the sphere not touching the surface.

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Quite the opposite. If we had we indeed had "cube root of X less than 1/2", then we would have a real solution to this problem. This follows by considering the point inside the sphere and a point outside the sphere (with similar signage as the original point) and knowing that there is a continuous line that connects them, hence must intersect the sphere at some point in time.

On the other hand, knowing that "cube root of 1/6 is more than 1/2" doesn't yet explain why there is no real solution to this problem.

My comment is asking for him to clarify why "finding the higher value of x can tell us if there is no real solution".

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

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@Calvin Lin Yes you are right. I've got mixed-up because of this misinformation.

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago
Relue Tamref
Apr 17, 2018

This solution it's acutally simple, i just didn't skiped any step.

x 2 + y 2 + z 3 = 1 4 x^{2} + y^{2} + z^{3} = \frac{1}{4}

x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 1 6 x^{3} + y^{3} + z^{3} = \frac{1}{6}

Sum up two equations and we end with R H S = 5 / 12 RHS = 5/12

Then, i put in evidence the common factors x 2 , y 2 , z 2 x^2 , y^2, z^2 (on L H S ) LHS)

x 2 ( 1 + x ) + y 2 ( 1 + y ) + z 2 ( 1 + z ) = 5 12 = 1 4 × 5 3 = ( x 2 + y 2 + z 2 ) ( 5 3 ) = x 2 5 3 + y 2 5 3 + z 2 5 3 x^2(1+x) + y^2(1+y) + z^2(1+z) = \frac{5}{12} = \frac{1}{4} \times \frac{5}{3}= (x^2 + y^2 + z^2)(\frac{5}{3}) = x^2\frac{5}{3} + y^2\frac{5}{3} + z^2\frac{5}{3}

now looking by the simmetry of the equation we do have that

( 1 + x ) = ( 1 + y ) = ( 1 + z ) = 5 3 (1 +x)=(1+y)=(1+z)= \frac{5}{3}

So

x = y = z x=y=z

But there's no solution for the system :

3 x 2 = 1 4 3x^2 = \frac{1}{4}

3 x 3 = 1 6 3x^3 = \frac{1}{6}

So the actual answer is 0 0 ... not 1 1 as we first get by looking at x = y = z = 2 3 x=y=z=\frac{2}{3}

Moderator note:

This solution makes a common error. Can you find it?

Hint: Check out this misconception wiki page .

To your solution I have the same doubt as to Daniel Stone's one. I don't think that the equation you get implies that ( 1 + x ) = ( 1 + y ) = ( 1 + z ) = 5 3 (1+x)=(1+y)=(1+z)=\frac {5}{3}

Robert Szafarczyk - 3 years, 1 month ago
Cxbaby 95
Apr 17, 2018

Probably not recommended, but since first equation is sum of squares, each positive solution can be replaced with negative. This implies an even number of solution.

But that wouldn't satisfy the second equation because negative cubed is negative. Nice attempt at breaking the system though!

Maninder Dhanauta - 3 years, 1 month ago

Not true for several reasons.

  1. If a solution was 0, then you cannot replace it with the negative value. Thus, the number of solutions might not be even.
  2. Replacing just one variable with the negative value will change the value of the second equation.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

Here's my approach: Every system of equations with n variables needs n variables to be solved. If this is not the case, the system has either infinite solutions or no solutions.

That claim is not true for a system of equations. For example, x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 0 x^ 2 + y^ 2 + z^2 = 0 has only 1 solution in the real numbers, namely x = y = z = 0 x = y = z = 0 .

You are thinking of a system of linear equations, in which case, a necessary condition for having a unique solution is that there are n equations and n variables.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 1 month ago

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