All related to triangles Part 3

Geometry Level 3

( 13 + 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 80 ) × ( 13 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) ( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \\ \times \\ ( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} - \sqrt{80} ) \\ \times \\ ( \sqrt{13} - \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \\ \times \\ (- \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \\

What is the square root of the value of the expression above?

See Part 1 , and Part 2 .


The answer is 56.

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2 solutions

Sravanth C.
May 25, 2015

Let ( a = 13 ) (a=\sqrt{13}) , ( b = 61 ) (b=\sqrt{61}) , ( c = 8 0 ) (c=\sqrt80)

According to the question, we need to find: ( a + b + c ) × ( a + b c ) × ( a b + c ) × ( a + b + c ) = ( a 2 + b 2 c 2 + 2 a b ) × ( a 2 b 2 + c 2 + 2 a b ) \sqrt{(a+b+c)×(a+b-c)×(a-b+c)×(-a+b+c)}\\ =\sqrt{(a^{2}+b^{2}-c^{2}+2ab)×(-a^{2}-b^{2}+c^{2}+2ab)}

Substituting the values of a a , b b and c c in the above expression, we get,

( 13 + 61 80 + 2 × 13 × 61 ) × ( 13 61 + 80 + 2 × 13 × 61 ) = ( 6 + 2 × 13 × 61 × ) ( 6 + 2 × 13 × 61 ) \sqrt{(13+61-80+2×\sqrt{13}×\sqrt{61})×(-13-61+80+ 2×\sqrt{13}×\sqrt{61})} \\ =\sqrt{ (6+2×\sqrt{13}×\sqrt{61}×)(-6+2×\sqrt{13}×\sqrt{61})}

Now, using ( a + b ) × ( a b ) = ( a 2 b 2 ) (a+b)×(a-b)=(a^{2}-b^{2}) formula in the above expression, we get,

( 2 × 13 × 61 ) 2 6 2 = ( 4 × 13 × 61 ) 36 = 3172 36 = 3136 = 56 \sqrt{(2×\sqrt{13}×\sqrt{61})^{2}-6^{2}}\\=\sqrt{(4×13×61)-36}\\ = \sqrt{3172-36 }\\ =\sqrt{3136} \\=\boxed{56} ¨ \huge\ddot\smile


Here's another approach, though I posted a comment, here's a modified one(as suggested by @Pi Han Goh )

Let, a = 13 , b = 61 , c = 80 a = \sqrt{13}, b=\sqrt{61}, c=\sqrt{80}

Therefore we need to find, ( a + b + c ) × ( a + b c ) × ( a b + c ) × ( a + b + c ) \sqrt{(a+b+c)×(a+b-c)×(a-b+c)×(-a+b+c)}

From the previous questions we find that, area of a triangles with sides, a = 13 , b = 61 , c = 80 a = \sqrt{13}, b=\sqrt{61}, c=\sqrt{80} was 14 14 ,

Hence, ( a + b + c ) × ( a + b c ) × ( a b + c ) × ( a + b + c ) 16 = 14 \sqrt{\dfrac{(a+b+c)×(a+b-c)×(a-b+c)×(-a+b+c)}{16}}=14

Now, multiplying the equation by 4 4 we get,

( a + b + c ) × ( a + b c ) × ( a b + c ) × ( a + b + c ) 16 × 4 = 56 \sqrt{\dfrac{(a+b+c)×(a+b-c)×(a-b+c)×(-a+b+c)}{16}} \times 4=56

( a + b + c ) × ( a + b c ) × ( a b + c ) × ( a + b + c ) × 16 16 = 56 \sqrt{\dfrac{(a+b+c)×(a+b-c)×(a-b+c)×(-a+b+c)\times 16}{16}}=56

Finally, we can say that, ( a + b + c ) × ( a + b c ) × ( a b + c ) × ( a + b + c ) = 56 \sqrt{(a+b+c)×(a+b-c)×(a-b+c)×(-a+b+c)}=56

Moderator note:

There's a much simpler approach to this, that is one without expanding the expression (and of course without the use of calculators).

Hints:

  1. How is this related to the previous problems (Part 1 and Part 2)?

  2. Does this formula look familiar ( a + b + c ) ( a + b c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b + c ) \sqrt{(a+b+c)(a+b-c)(a-b+c)(-a+b+c)} ?

  3. See the title of this question. Why is this problem in Geometry?

  4. The three numbers 13 , 61 , 80 \sqrt{13} , \sqrt{61}, \sqrt{80} can be found from Parts 1 and 2. Coincidence?

Please refrain from posting trivial stuff like "Press toggle latex and read the last line"

In response to the challenge master: First of all, I'm sorry for posting such trivial stuff, I will never do such stupid things in future.

And yes sir, I think this is what you were expecting:

In the other parts, we can find that the area of the triangle with sides, 13 , 61 \sqrt{13},\sqrt{61} and 80 \sqrt{80} was 14 14 .

We also see that, the area of that triangle using heron's formula to be ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 80 ) × ( 13 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) 16 \sqrt{\dfrac{( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} - \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} - \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times (- \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} )}{16}}

Now, multiplying the expression by 4 4 we get,

[ ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 80 ) × ( 13 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) 16 ] × 4 [\sqrt{\dfrac{( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} - \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} - \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times (- \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80})}{16}}]\times 4

But this expression is equal to 14 × 4 = 56 14×4=56

Therefore, ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 80 ) × ( 13 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) 16 × 16 = 56 \sqrt{\dfrac{( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} - \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} - \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times (- \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80})}{16}\times 16}=56

Or, ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 80 ) × ( 13 61 + 80 ) × ( 13 + 61 + 80 ) = 56 \sqrt{(\sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times (\sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} - \sqrt{80} ) \times ( \sqrt{13} - \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80} ) \times (- \sqrt{13} + \sqrt{61} + \sqrt{80})}=56

And that leads us to a very simple approach. ¨ \huge\ddot\smile

EDIT: Added a square root sign and changed the value of the denominator.

@Calvin Lin

Sravanth C. - 6 years ago

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Check your working again, it's still wrong.

Pi Han Goh - 6 years ago

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Thanks sir, I have edited it. Could you please verify whether it is right?

Sravanth C. - 6 years ago

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@Sravanth C. Haha, yeah now it's right. Some tips: try to use the general form, that is replace a = 13 , b = 61 , c = 80 a = \sqrt{13}, b=\sqrt{61}, c=\sqrt{80} , then your working is much shorter, neater and more legible. So the readers don't have to scroll from left to right. But yeah! Good! Maybe try converting your scomment into your solution? That is, swap your solution and comments.

And don't call me sir, I'm still young, or at least I deceived myself into thinking that way.

Pi Han Goh - 6 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh Thanks for your tip (sir)!

Also you can see a neat, readable and legible solution, ¨ \huge \ddot\smile

Sravanth C. - 6 years ago
Chew-Seong Cheong
May 26, 2015

From the Challenge Master's hints. It is Heron's formula, where the area of a triangle is given by:

Δ = s ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) \Delta = \sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-c)} , where s = 13 + 61 + 80 s = \sqrt{13}+\sqrt{61}+\sqrt{80} , a = 2 13 a = 2\sqrt{13} , b = 2 61 b = 2\sqrt{61} and c = 2 80 c = 2\sqrt{80} .

And that:

16 Δ 2 = 0 1 1 1 1 0 c 2 b 2 1 c 2 0 a 2 1 b 2 a 2 0 Δ 2 = 0 1 1 1 1 0 80 61 1 80 0 13 1 61 13 0 = 3136 -16\Delta^2 = \begin{vmatrix} 0 & 1 & 1 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 & c^2 & b^2 \\ 1 & c^2 & 0 & a^2 \\ 1 & b^2 & a^2 & 0 \end{vmatrix} \quad \Rightarrow \Delta^2 = - \begin{vmatrix} 0 & 1 & 1 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 & 80 & 61 \\ 1 & 80 & 0 & 13 \\ 1 & 61 & 13 & 0 \end{vmatrix} = 3136

Δ = 56 \Rightarrow \Delta = \boxed{56}

Moderator note:

The idea is to use Part 1 and Part 2 which were linked in the question.

Part 1 tells us that the area is 14, and we recognize that the answer is 4 times of the area, and hence 4 × 14 = 56 4 \times 14 = 56 .

@Chung Kevin It seems you have become a staff member. Congrats!!!

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years ago

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Haha, that was my mistake. I was editing his profile and accidentally hit the wrong button.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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I wish I was that fortunate that you would hit the "make moderator" button in my profile. :P

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years ago

Oops! I didn't solve part 1 and part 2, earlier.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 6 years ago

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