Almost Vieta's

Algebra Level 5

{ a + b + c = 10 a b + b c + c a = 25 \begin{cases} a+b+c =10\\ ab+bc+ca=25 \end{cases}

Let a a , b b and c c be real numbers such that the system of equations above is true. If the sum of the minimum and maximum values of c c can be written in the form x y \frac{x}{y} , where x x and y y are coprime positive integers, find x + y x+y .


The answer is 23.

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3 solutions

Sharky Kesa
Jun 12, 2017

Firstly, note that a + b = 10 c a+b=10-c and a b = 25 c ( a + b ) = 25 c ( 10 c ) ab=25-c(a+b)=25-c(10-c) . Thus, we have

0 ( a b ) 2 = ( a + b ) 2 4 a b = ( 10 c ) 2 4 ( 25 c ( 10 c ) ) = c 2 20 c + 100 100 + 40 c 4 c 2 = 20 c 3 c 2 = c ( 20 3 c ) \begin{aligned} 0 &\leq (a-b)^2\\ &=(a+b)^2-4ab\\ &=(10-c)^2-4(25-c(10-c))\\ &=c^2-20c+100-100+40c-4c^2\\ &=20c-3c^2\\ &=c(20-3c) \end{aligned}

Thus, 0 c 20 3 0\leq c \leq \frac{20}{3} , so the sum of the minimum and maximum values of c c is 20 3 \frac{20}{3} . These values in ( a , b , c ) (a,b,c) occur at ( 5 , 5 , 0 ) (5,5,0) and ( 5 3 , 5 3 , 20 3 ) (\frac{5}{3}, \frac{5}{3}, \frac{20}{3}) . Therefore, the answer is 20 + 3 = 23 20+3=\boxed{23} .

You have shown that 0 c 20 3 0 \le c \le \tfrac{20}{3} . You should also note that it is possible ( a = b = 5 , c = 0 a=b=5,c=0 ) to have c = 0 c=0 and also ( a = b = 5 3 , c = 20 3 a=b=\tfrac53,c=\tfrac{20}{3} ) to have c = 20 3 c=\tfrac{20}{3} .

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 12 months ago

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Ah, yes. Should have written that as well. Thanks for reminding me.

Sharky Kesa - 3 years, 12 months ago

Dude why is 20+3? Answer should be 20 3 \frac{20}3

Rishabh Jain - 3 years, 12 months ago

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Ok, so this is a prominent bug that has been hunting a lot of my problems that I make. What happens is that whenever I press Preview, then go back to edit the problem, then press Preview and Post the problem, the question reverts back to the previous un-edited version, causing these errors in my problems. I have told staff about this before, but no changes have occurred since. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Sharky Kesa - 3 years, 12 months ago

Thanks for the inspiration!

Steven Jim - 3 years, 12 months ago

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Needs hell lot of calculations.

Rishabh Jain - 3 years, 12 months ago

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Why so? You need not.

Steven Jim - 3 years, 12 months ago

I think someone who have solved many lvl 5 problems should know that a 4 + b 4 + c 4 2 ( a 2 b 2 + b 2 c 2 + c 2 a 2 ) = ( a + b + c ) ( a + b c ) ( a b + c ) ( a b c ) a^4+b^4+c^4 - 2(a^2b^2+b^2c^2+c^2a^2) = (a+b+c)(a+b-c)(a-b+c)(a-b-c) .

So why calculation? Did you directly solve the problem?

Steven Jim - 3 years, 12 months ago

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@Steven Jim That comment wasn't made to offend you... Just said that because calculations might have been made easier :-)

Rishabh Jain - 3 years, 12 months ago

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@Rishabh Jain Woah woah... I haven't had any thoughts that you offend me XD

Steven Jim - 3 years, 12 months ago

@Rishabh Jain By the way, what do you think about my solution? And again, how did you solve the problem (what method)?

Steven Jim - 3 years, 12 months ago

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@Steven Jim Same.. by Sharkey's method.

Rishabh Jain - 3 years, 12 months ago

@Steven Jim Nice method though. +1

Rishabh Jain - 3 years, 12 months ago

So here's the proof that you need not use much (almost none) calculation to solve the problem. The hint is actually the generalization.

https://brilliant.org/problems/inspired-by-sharky-kesa-9/?ref_id=1370530

Steven Jim - 3 years, 12 months ago
Vilakshan Gupta
Jul 19, 2017

From the identity ( a + b + c ) 2 = a 2 + b 2 + c 2 + 2 ( a b + b c + c a ) (a+b+c)^2 = a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}+2(ab+bc+ca) , and substituting the values given , we get a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 50 a 2 + b 2 = 50 c 2 A l s o , a + b = 10 c a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}=50 \\ \implies a^{2}+b^{2}=50-c^2 \\ Also, \hspace{0.25cm} a+b=10-c \\ From Cauchy-Schwarz Inequality , a 2 + b 2 1 2 ( a + b ) 2 a^{2}+b^{2} \geq\frac{1}{2}(a+b)^{2} Putting the values of a 2 + b 2 a^{2}+b^{2} and a + b a+b , we get: 50 c 2 1 2 ( 10 c ) 2 50-c^2\geq\frac{1}{2}(10-c)^2 On simplifying we are left with 0 3 c 2 20 c 0\leq 3c^{2}-20c which gives 0 c 20 3 0\leq c\leq\frac{20}{3} yeilding maximum value as 20 3 \boxed{\frac{20}{3}}

Sam Monasar
Jan 4, 2019

if you take the derivative of x 3 10 x 2 + 25 x x^3-10x^2+25x you get 3 x 2 20 x + 25 3x^2-20x+25 and the sum of the zeros is 20 3 \frac{20}{3} when added together gives you 23 \boxed{23}

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