Also of true and false statements

Logic Level 4

On a piece of paper are written 10 statements which can be true or false and which helps you find some number , name it N N . Knowing the statements , which are listed bellow , what is that number?

  1. At least one of the statements 9 and 10 are true.

  2. This is either the first true statement either the first false statement.

  3. There are 3 consecutive false statements.

  4. The difference between the number associated with the last true statement and the number of the first true statements divide the number N which has to be found out.

  5. The sum of the true statements is N.

  6. This is not the last true statement.

  7. The number of every true statement divides N.

  8. The true statements are N% from the 10 statements.

  9. The numbers of divisors of N (not including 1 and N) is bigger than the sum of the numbers associated to the true statements.

  10. There are no three consecutive true statements.


The answer is 420.

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1 solution

A A
May 22, 2016

(first solution) Let S1 denote statement 1 , S2 denote statement 2 and so on and also let the truth values of this statements be noted with T for true and F for false. Also for enhancing clarity sometimes I will write what each statement says when I speak of it to see what is deduced and how and I hope it is clear.

For enhancing clarity as a fast synopsis what will be done is the following. Firstly deduce that whatever value S2 has it implies 1F which implies that 9 and 10 are false. Then also by the auto-referential propriety deduce that S6 is true. Check S3 , which leads to study of 2 cases. Case 1 leads to N = 420 and case 2 leads to an inconsistent set of truth values seen by what the statements mean. Therefore case 1 is good and therefore the only result.

Start the reasoning from S2 which says that "this statement is either the first true statement or the first false statement" and observe that however this statement is it is necessary that S1 is false. If statement 2 is true then it is "the first true statement" and therefore all statements before it are false , meaning that statement 1 must be false (1) and if statement 2 is false then it is not true that it is "the first false statement" meaning that at least one statement before it is false and therefore S1 is false (2). So , no matter how S2 is S1 is false , therefore S1 is necessarily false. Because S1 is false then none of S9 and S10 are true therefore S9 and S10 are false and then "the number of divisors of N is smaller than the sum of the numbers of true statements" (A1) and "there are at least three consecutive statements" (A2).

So until now it is known that S1 is false and because of this S9 and S10 are false.

Observe that S6 ("this is not the last true statement") must be true because otherwise S6 is the last true statement which will be a contradiction. Therefore S6 is true and therefore because , being true , this statement is not the last true statement at least one of S10 , S9 , S8 or S7 must be true. S10 and S9 can't be true because it is known that they are false , therefore at least one of S8 and S7 are true. So up to this point it was deduced that S10 , S9 S1 are false and S6 is true with at least one of S8 and S7 true.

To deduce the rest of the truth values of the other statements consider S3 which speaks about the way this values look like because it states that "there are 3 consecutive false statements".

(Case 1) Suppose S3 is true then what it says is true namely that there are 3 consecutive false statements. It is known that 10F 9F 8 7 6T 5 4 3T 2 1F and there must be 3 consecutive false statements. From this and from the fact that at least one of S8 and S7 is true the only possible configuration for 3 consecutive false statements is 10F 9F 8F while 7T because 8 must be false in order to have 3 consecutive false statements but 7 must be true to respect the conclusion from S6 T.

So , until now it is known that 10F 9F 8F 7T 6T 5 4 3T 2 1F. Now , supposing 5 is true from 7 as a true statement would result that N divides 3 , 5 , 7 namely 3 * 5 * 7 =105 while from 5 would result that N being the "sum of the true statements" N < 55 (because at most all the 10 statements added will give 10! =55) and therefore N should be less than 55 but divide 105 which is not possible. From this , 5 can't be true and therefore it is false and therefore it has been deduced in this step that 5F. Filling the table it can be therefore presented the situation as 10F 9F 8F 7T 6T 5F 4 3T 2 1F.

Then from A2 the remaining values to be filled in the table S4 and S2 are true. Then , from S4 the number divides also with 7-2=5 and combined with S7 divides all true statements therefore N divides the numbers associated to the true statements 7 , 6 , 5 , 4 , 3 and 2 and therefore divides 420 meaning that the number looked for is a multiple of 420 or N =420m.

Finally the table with all results which cover all the information needed to deduce the number providing that the problem is correct can be written and is 10F 9F 8F 7T 6T 5F 4T 3T 2T 1F.

Because the sum of the true statements is 22 from A1 N should have a number of divisors either equal or less than 22 and because 420 = 2 ^ 3 *5 * 7 it has (2+1) * (1+1) * (1+1) * (1+1) - 2 = 22 divisors which checks A1. Since 420 has 22 divisors a number of the form 420m would have more and therefore 420 is the only case which checks all conditions of the problem for the consistent set of truth values and statements.

(Case 2 , that is) Suppose 3 is false. The table will look at first like 10F9F8 7 6T 5 4 3F 2 1F and also there aren't going to be 3 consecutive false statements meaning that there are at most 2 false statements and then because 2 and 8 if false will produce a configuration of 3 false statements (look at the table) must be true and at least one of 4 and 5 is true because otherwise there will be again 3 false consecutive statements. For enhancing clarity to remind S2 and S8 T and at least one of S4 and S5 are true.

Because S8 is true then N < 100.

For 7 true the values will look like 10F 9F 8T 7T 6T 5 4 3T 2T 1F and then N divides at least 8 , 7 , 6 and 2 then is a multiple of 8 * 7 * 6 * 2 = 168 which is bigger than 100. This contradicts S8 so S7 must be false. For 7 false the configuration will be 10F 9F 8T 7F 6T 5 4 3T 2T 1F and S5 and S4 because of statement A2 must be true meaning by S5 true than N = 2+4+5+6+8 and from 4 that N divides 8-2=6. This is a contradiction as 25 doesn't divide 6 (of course) anyways.

Then for S8 true however S7 is the configuration leads to a contradiction because the statements for the assigned truth values are not consistent with each other. Then for case 2 a configuration is impossible and therefore just for the first case it is possible.

Since from Case 1 and Case 2 everything has been verified as a function for the value of S3 it can be concluded that just one solution , namely N=420 in case 1 works. Therefore it is possible for N=420.

The number N is therefore 420 and the answer to the problem is 420 anyways.

(Second solution) As this problem asks for identifying a number which is determined by knowing something about the true and false statements it must be that firstly there should be identified at least some truth values of statements. This is implicitly considered into the question as the right approach but it is good make explicit such that it is clear what is being done completely.

The solution of this problem starts by firstly assigning necessary truth values to some statements such that there is a point from which to guide the rest of reasoning. The 2 statements to which it is better to look firstly tend to be the 2 auto-referential statements 2 and statement 6.

Firstly analyze statement 2 which can be either true or false. For the first case observe that if statement 2 is true then it means that what it states by it's auto-referentiality namely that is "either the first true statement or the first false statement" is true and as it is true that it is the first true statement it will imply that statement 1(which is the only one before it) must be not true and therefore statement 1 must be false and for the other case which should be analyzed in which statement 2 is false observe that also by it's own auto-referentiality as it will not be true that it is "the first false statement" it must be that there is another statement before it which is false which being just one statement (namely 1) before it implies statement 1 is false leading to the the conclusion that however statement 2 is statement 1 must be false and to articulate therefore being necessary that statement 1 is false. If statement 1 is false then statements 9 and 10 are false meaning that the number of divisors of N is less or equal than the sum of the numbers associated to the true statements (A1) this being the contradiction of 9 and there are 3 true consecutive statements this being the contradiction of statement 10(A2) this 2 contradictions being noted with A1 and A2 for the purposes of the presentation as they are going to be used multiple times along the reasoning that will lead to the solution of the problem.

After identifying that statements 1 , 9 , 10 must necessarily be false analyze the other auto-referential statement , namely the statement 6. Observe that statement 6 is certainly true as if it would be a false statement 6 is the last true statement which leads to a contradiction and therefore 6 what it is stated namely that it is not the last true statement is true meaning that after it will be at least one other statement which is true and as 9 and 10 are already false it must be that at least one of 8 or 7 are true.

Until now , what is known is the following situation 1F 6T 9F 10F. To look for the other values of the rest of the statements and identify which are true and which are false consider statement 3. As it does speak about the configuration of the true and false statements it will provide some guiding around it. What this means is that it will make easier to find the truth values because gives some idea about them anyways.

If statement 3 will be true then there must be 3 consecutive false statements and since statements 3 and 6 (being just 2 statements before any of statements 3 and 6) are true the only possible configurations for 3 consecutive false statements will be that of either the sequence 8 9 10 or 8 9 10 and 7 are false but since one of statements 8 and 7 are true the only sequence remains 8 9 and 10 false and 7 that will be true. If 5 would be true then from statement 7 which is true would be concluded that N divides 3 * 5 * 7 = 105 and by statement 5 that N will be a number which is the sum of all true statements which can't be greater that 55 ( the sum of all numbers until 10 being 10!=55) which will therefore not be a multiples of 105 so 5 is false. Then , as there are 3 true consecutive statements (A1) and 5 is proved to be false the configuration until now looking with statements 8 , 9 , 10 , 5 false and 6 , 7 true the only possible configuration of 3 consecutive true statements remaining is that of 2 , 4 , 3 which should be therefore all true. As 2 and 4 are true N will divide among other divisor also with 7-2 = 5 (from 4) and will divide 2 , 4 , 3 , 5 , 6 , 7 being a multiple of the bcmm 420. This completes the configuration as all truth values of the statements have been completed where the sum of the numbers 2 + 4 + 3 + 7 = 22 and as statement 9 is false the number N should be a number which is a multiple of 22 but has less or an equal number of divisors with 22 meaning that since 420 already has 22 divisors a number of the form 420 * a will have at least one more (a) and there is only one solution.

To check if this is the only solution consider the case in which statement 3 is false in which will not be a the 3 false statements meaning that then 2 and 8 will be true and also at least one of 4 and 5 will be true. Considering the consequences of this observe that since 8 is true then the true statements will be N% from the the 10 statements and therefore N < 100 and taking it in conjunction with the statement number 7 if it is true then the number N divides 2 6 8 and 7 thing which would imply that the number N is a multiple of 168 which contradicts that N <100 therefore leading to an impossible case. For the other part for 8 true and for statement 7 being a false one then as there are 3 consecutive true statements (A2) statements in the configuration somewhere this will be possible just for the configuration of 4 5 and 6 meaning from 5 that number N = 2+4+5+6+8 which is 25 but from statement 4 it means that N divides 8-2=6 which will lead again to a contradiction since 25 doesn't divide 6 therefore being concluded that it will be indeed impossible for 3F as will imply 8 T and by conjunction with 7 whichever values has leads to a contradiction anyways.

Therefore the only case that works from the analysis done is for 3 being true because that is the only case in which there is no contradiction and has the consequences of consistent statements and solution.

This means that there is therefore only one possible situation which doesn't get to a contradiction or in which the set of all statements are consistent that being resulted in N=420 anyways.

Please split your explanation into paragraphs! It's painful to read through your explanation without any punctuation. And please learn some LaTeX.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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Oh , hi Pi Han Goh. I was pretty sure someone will complain again about the format and presentation of some of my solutions. Actually it is pretty unsuitable to call it a solution since it is rather sketched but it's there to present generally the reasoning at least. I'll try to chisel it in the format and also make the reasoning clearer. Since you ask me so nicely I will do learn some of that stuff called LaTeX of yours though not today. I'll announce you when I finish editing this sketched so to say solution such that the understanding is more complete and deeper anyways.

A A - 5 years ago

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There are a couple of improvements for your presentation.

Glancing through your texts, I still couldn't figure out which statements are true and which are false. There is always no harm in reiterating on what you have accomplished. For example, at the very end, you could say that (in CAPS LOCK) that all the statements are true except the last one.

As a simple rule of thumb: don't bother writing a paragraph with over 30 words in it. Just split the paragraph into multiple paragraphs. It's a hassle to keep track of which sentence belong to which line.

For each paragraph, try to make it explicit on what you're trying to accomplish and/or have accomplished so far.

Pictures wouldn't hurt. Use bullet points. Use LaTeX, if you don't know how to do it, ask me.

Clarify each notation you're using. I have no idea what A1 and A2 represents.

More words do not make it better. For example, the last sentence in your 3rd paragraph is way too long and can be cut short or split into multiple sentences.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh Thank you for your review yet I think some of the points you said are not actually correct and not because I disagree that pictures or table would hurt or not and I agree with some. I say that they are not correct because I do make some of the stuff you advise me if you are attentive.

I could put tables where there are presented at each step of reasoning or at least in the most important parts the what was found out but I'm really lazy (this is not a justification) to do that and in the text if you will read attentively you will see that I repeat some stuff and say what was accomplished to point out generally what there is and how. Also A1 and A2 are clarified if you read what says where they appear , they are the contradictory of the last 2 statements and they appear because are used multiple times and the last statement in the 3rd paragraph starts with "if" and if you wil follow the idea I hope it will be clear but I will improve that if you still think it's better so. Of LaTeX I don't bother using for this but thanks and I'll ask you. I'll use it actually as a fact of advising me after all but not today but if you read attentively you will see it's clear.

A A - 5 years ago

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@A A .

I think some of the points you said are not actually correct and not because I disagree that pictures or table would hurt or not

It's very hard to keep track of which truth values you have obtained. It is sensible to write up a table to keep track of what you've have accomplished or will accomplish so that it is easy for readers to follow through.

... if you will read attentively you will see that I repeat some stuff and say what was accomplished to point out generally what there is and how

That's what I've been saying the entire time: Nobody is going to read through your fine print to understand what you're saying. You need to write it up in such a way that it only requires a glance to know what and why you're communicating. At the very least, you should bold/italize what you've written up to emphasize what is going on.

Also A1 and A2 are clarified if you read what says where they appear , they are the contradictory of the last 2 statements and they appear because are used multiple times and the last statement in the 3rd paragraph starts with "if" and if you wil follow the idea I hope it will be clear but I will improve that if you still think it's better so

This sentence is way too long (at least when written in English)! Cut it down or split it up!

Also A1 and A2 are clarified if you read what says where they appear

And where do they appear exactly? Can you tell me from a glance? Can anybody tell me from a glance?

I'll use it actually as a fact of advising me after all but not today but if you read attentively you will see it's clear.

Unfortunately, it's clear only to you.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh Well , you don't have to look in a glance to know where A1 and A2 are. It is necessary to know what they say just if you read the solution as a solution and not between lines. So I must say that I don't understand that point of knowing from a glance when you don't read completely. About long sentences I said I agree with you sometimes and this is not one of the times. A sentence can be very clear if you follow it even if it's long. It usually says that something (subject) does something (predicate) and a text with some sentences that are tied in a phrase can make the understanding of the overall context better so just pointing it in one style and always cutting them isn't at any time the best idea , especially when the flow of things stated and thought comes naturally. I hope you don't find I am not sensible and don't care writing a text mess and I don't think that it is a right conclusion just by what you read since I still think it is clear so I have to ask you if you read just to know if you are speaking in complete knowledge of your impression of the subject matter. Lastly you sound a little upset , and I actually think it's a little funny to be upset of this , and I hope you are not upset anyways.

A A - 5 years ago

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@A A .

Well , you don't have to look in a glance to know where A1 and A2 are.

That's where you're wrong. Don't expect people to be automatically familiar with your notations.

It is necessary to know what they say just if you read the solution as a solution and not between lines.

NO ONE IS THAT INTERESTED TO READ THE FINE PRINT!!!!

About long sentences I said I agree with you sometimes and this is not one of the times. A sentence can be very clear if you follow it even if it's long. It usually says that something (subject) does something (predicate) and a text with some sentences that are tied in a phrase can make the understanding of the overall context better so just pointing it in one style and always cutting them isn't at any time the best idea , especially when the flow of things stated and thought comes naturally. I hope you don't find I am not sensible and don't care writing a text mess and I don't think that it is a right conclusion just by what you read since I still think it is clear so I have to ask you if you read just to know if you are speaking in complete knowledge of your impression of the subject matter.

Sigh. Try reading all of these IN ONE PARAGRAPH and tell me if it bores you or not.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh If they are attentive when they firstly see A1 and A2 reading it they get familiar. I explain them so my part can be said is done or otherwise I should put the message ATTENTION to get attention. Those are more ideas articles which have little connection one with the other. Therefore this analogy of yours is not complete.

A A - 5 years ago

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@A A

and I am pretty good of seeing where those As are.

That's because you wrote the solution!

I don't know why you kept mentioning "If they are attentive". I guess we just have to agree to disagree then.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh Well , to agree to disagree is after all a start as long it means that there is an agreement to understand each other I suppose , right ? I actually agreed to disagree with you from the very start as long as I thought you are not correct in something and I hope you did the same.

But I suppose that after it is agreed to understand each other (or at least to try to) I should explain how I see things about understanding and writing a solution because here is where as I think is the important difference between you and me and therefore as there is this difference of views there might be also a source for disagreement in many points. I think you are the kind who likes going to a problem solving it and being done with it and then go to the other and therefore you like being put in a flow where you have a fast reasoning about them which is in my opinion more of a positivist way of looking since it implies a great agility of mind. I'm on the other side more meditative in nature and like understanding it into it's depths which may not imply that I go from one idea to another and next to yet another idea which is interesting and so on and as such this requires a more careful and attentive study to reach into it's denseness. This kind of denseness is another type of richness than that of flowing from one thing to another and I do this because for my part I think that just such understanding really is a true understanding and respond to might be said the exigence of complete seeing and penetrating into the nature of things. As exactly this is what I am looking for , a complete understanding of things or at least a dense and pretty much proximity to it's completeness , this is why I think it requires attention and elaborate stuff and therefore motivates me (even without observing it) to try to be explicit in my solutions. Going into it's depths where nothing remains unclear and everything is transparent is what I like to achieve from a solution (though I don't really do that always) and I suppose that the readers "if they are attentive" exactly thinking in this way or in some way like that when I say that can arrive at a better understanding of a problem. I may anyways not have been completely clear about this view of mine but I hope you made an idea. Anyways I also want to know how you view solving a problem and understanding it. This nonetheless is more interesting. And I say it is more interesting because seeing how someone else is in his attempts to understand something gives a better understanding of yourself as a person who wants to understand and arrive at truth things which therefore replies to this internal motivation and search and therefore know yourself better.

A A - 5 years ago

@Pi Han Goh The sentence that you find long speaks firstly that A1 and A2 are explained says what they are and (afterwards moves to the idea) that the last paragraph starts with if and (then goes to the idea) that I will improve it if you ask me to that meaning it states 3 ideas which if are followed , since for my part I am sure you can leads to a clear understanding of it. Following the general idea should be easy even if the idea is stated in a more elaborated form (of a phrase or of a complicated sentence) as long as it speaks how I said of something which does something I almost all the case which are important. That's how I see it right now. As long as these ideas are coherent and flow naturally so to say one from the other the thought should be easy in any language right ?

A A - 5 years ago

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@A A .

You still didn't answer me "Can anybody tell me from a glance?"

since for my part I am sure you can leads to a clear understanding of it.

I'm sure I can understand, but it's hassle reading through your fine print.

Following the general idea should be easy even if the idea is stated in a more elaborated form (of a phrase or of a complicated sentence) as long as it speaks how I said of something which does something I almost all the case which are important. That's how I see it right now. As long as these ideas are coherent and flow naturally so to say one from the other the thought should be easy in any language right ?

Fine. Just break it up to multiple sentences and paragraphs.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh Well , I thought the answer is self evident and by what I said wouldn't be important for any further conclusions but if you want it , no it is not necessary that someone can tell you. Or rather anyways yes , I can answer you that it is and the end of p 3 where is that very long sentence. That's what I am saying about multiple paragraphs and breaking it and stuff because since it indeed is fine it is not important to break it or not. Anyways you also didn't answer me whether or not you are upset.

A A - 5 years ago

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@A A .

Or rather anyways yes , I can answer you that it is and the end of p 3 where is that very long sentence.

Nobody can know that from a glance!

That's what I am saying about multiple paragraphs and breaking it and stuff because since it indeed is fine it is not important to break it or not.

Fine, if you insist on your way, then I have nothing else to say to you.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years ago

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@Pi Han Goh You should. You didn't answer whether you are or not upset.

A A - 5 years ago

@Pi Han Goh Oh , and I am pretty good of seeing where those As are. But really hope you didn't mind and indeed I prefer keeping for now the phrases which are clear though long.

A A - 5 years ago

@Pi Han Goh And thanks for your review again. Though it's not completely right in my opinion it is nice and a little right anyways so it is something of it and nice from you. And also you didn't answer whether or not you read the "fine print". It's a solution not a "fine print" and I really hope also that even if you are upset you will see if you reflect that it is no reason to and don't disappoint me anyways.

A A - 5 years ago

@Pi Han Goh And about the long sentences , I suppose you are right sometimes. Oh , and i suppose that thing about all sentences being true except the last is just an example , right ?

A A - 5 years ago

Done , now i have been pretty explicit in reasoning at every step of it and I hope it is more structured and you will find it cute though you may find it is not need to be all that explicit.

It may look long but I think you will follow the reasoning pretty easily as it is simple to follow (that even without using LaTeX) and please tell if you want improvement again anyways.

A A - 5 years ago

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