5 , 7 , 1 7 , and 1 9 are four prime numbers such that the sum of any three of them is also prime: 5 + 7 + 1 7 5 + 7 + 1 9 5 + 1 7 + 1 9 7 + 1 7 + 1 9 = 2 9 = 3 1 = 4 1 = 4 3 . Are there 5 distinct positive primes such that the sum of any three of them is also prime?
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A simpler argument (which is essentially yours) is that
Lemma: If we have 5 numbers that are chosen from 0, 1, 2, then we must either have 3 identical numbers, or 3 distinct numbers.
Corollary: The sum of these 3 numbers will be a multiple of 3.
Proof of lemma: This is an application of dilworth's theorem (or you can convince yourself directly).
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Everything is fine with this, but isn’t the condition given that the 5 primes must be distinct? Case 2 here could be simplified slightly - no need to consider if p_2 = 3
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Note that "two are congruent to 1 mod 3" doesn't mean that the original primes are the same. It just mean that they leave the same remainder after dividing by 3.
As it turns out, (this solution shows that) the distinct prime condition is irrelevant to the problem. If we allowed for duplicate primes, the answer is "No". Hence, restricting to no duplicate primes, the answer is "No".
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I understand that, and I've edited my original comment to clarify - I was just wondering why, in case 2, we need to consider if 2 of our primes are 3 if we are looking at distinct primes. Interesting that that fact isn't needed to solve, but could be used to simplify reasoning a bit.
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@Jacob Swenberg – Yes, we could answer the question as posed, though this solution addresses a more general case. Admittedly, it would be much better if the solution made that explicit at the start, and I've added a note to reflect that.
(In addition, there is a much better way to present the entire argument, which is the point of my comment below.)
Ah, you're right. Missed that part! My original proof actually had all five distinct, but then I "fixed" it.
I was about to complain that my software found a whole bunch, but in reviewing it I see I screwed the code up... :-(
Generalizing to 5 positive integers:
@Jordan Cahn : Did I get it right?
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That note was actually added by the Brilliant.com admins, not me! But your proof looks good to me!
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Consider 1,1,1,1,1 - in the positive integer case, you need to take into account uniqueness.
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@Gregory Lewis – Haha, yes indeed. I was thinking that we would get a different multiple of 3, but didn't push that thinking through completely.
Alright, if we had "integers ≥ 2 ", then the statement would be true.
Not quite. You're missing one small step that is easy to overlook.
Hint: If a number is divisible by 3, must it be non-prime?
I do not understand why did you take integers that are 0 mod 3 .doesnt that imply that they are non prime?
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I don't believe that I chose any integers that were 0 mod 3. Regardless, it is possible that one of the primes could be 3 itself.
Lemma: There are no integer solutions to a + b + c = 5 , 0 ≤ a , b , c , < 3 , a b c = 0 .
Proof: Suppose such a solution exists. WLOG, a = 0 . Then, we have 5 = b + c ≤ 2 + 2 = 4 , which is a contradiction.
Lemma: Given any 5 integers, there exist 3 whose sum is a multiple of 3.
Proof: Suppose not. There are 5 integers such that the sum of any 3 integers is not a multiple of 3.
Let
a
,
b
,
c
,
represent the number of integers that leave a remainder of 0, 1, and 2 respectively when divided by 3.
Since no 3 sum to a multiple of 3, this means that
0
≤
a
,
b
,
c
<
3
otherwise we can take the sum of those 3.
If
a
b
c
=
0
, then each of them is at least 1, and the sum of 1 number from each group will give us a multiple of 3. Thus
a
b
c
=
0
.
However, this contradicts the previous claim.
Corollary: Given any 5 integers, each of which is at least 2, there exist 3 whose sum is composite.
Proof: By the 2nd lemma, there exist 3 whose sum is a multiple of 3.
Since each of the integers is at least 2, their sum is at least 6. Thus, their sum is not 3.
Hence, their sum is a composite number.
Sir could u pls explain this :5=b+c<=2+2=4!!! and why did u use it??
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This is a proof by contradiction . We assume that a solution exists and try to find a/any contradiction. If there is a contradiction, then it means that the assumption is false, so there are no solutions.
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Sir could u pls explain how did u get that b<=2+2=4,in that inequality!!!thanks
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@Erica Phillips – a , b , c are integers that are strictly less than 3. Hence, they are at most 2. Hence b + c ≤ 2 + 2 .
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@Calvin Lin – But why don't we take 1 as one of the integers!!!
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@Erica Phillips
–
The integers could be 1 in some cases.
The step of "they are at most 2" holds even if "we take 1 as one of the integers".
The statement is the inequality
b
+
c
≤
2
+
2
, not the equation
b
+
c
=
2
+
2
.
No. '5 primes such that the sum of ANY three is also a prime.' The real problem is not picking the primes. The problem is 'sum of ANY three' still being prime, and that sum not being divisible by 3, specifically.
Let's build a set of 5 primes noting only their modulo, base 3. We'll pick: +1, +1, -1, -1. So far, okay. But now we're stuck. If we pick another +1, the three +1's added together form a number bigger than 3 with a modulo 3 = 0 so NOT prime. If we pick another -1, the three -1's have the same problem. So we try 3, itself, with modulo 0. Then the choice of a +1 and a -1 also lead to a number with modulo 0, but greater than 3, so not prime. So it doesn't matter how you goose the primes, the problem is you can't pick FIVE of them such that ANY three sum to a prime.
Well, there is one very simple restriction I can add. One of the primes in any set of 5 would be 2.
One of the 5 primes is 2. There must be cases involving (a+b) + 2, which always equals (even Number) plus 2 and is thus never divisible by 2.
Never divisible by 2?
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Ya what, doesn't this prove the opposite claim: "None of the primes can be 2?"
If we add four prime numbers, our result will always be an even integer and thus not a prime number. However, there is one exception, which occurs when one of the chosen primes is 2. Hence, in order to make our result odd, 2 must be one of the primes. But, as we have to leave it out once in order to try every possible combination of the five numbers, the tim we leave it out, the result must necessarily be an even number and can't be prime.
The problem involves sums of three of the numbers, not four.
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Note: This problem does not require the "distinct" condition. This solution proceeds for the case of "5 positive primes".
Notice that in the numerical example, of the primes picked, two are congruent to 1 mod 3 and two are congruent to 2 mod 3 . This is not a coincidence. In fact, every example of 4 primes where the sum of any 3 are prime must satisfy this condition.
As such, this suggests that we look at the values of the primes modulo 3. If we choose five primes, there are the following cases:
Case 1: 3 is not one of our primes. Let our primes be p 1 , p 2 , p 3 , p 4 , p 5 . All our primes must either be congruent to 1 mod 3 or 2 mod 3 . By the pigeonhole principle, three of our five primes must therefore be congruent to each other mod 3 -- WLOG say p 1 ≡ p 2 ≡ p 3 m o d 3 . Then p 1 + p 2 + p 3 ≡ 0 m o d 3 and, since this sum is greater than three, it must be composite.
Edit: As noted by @Jacob Swenberg, Case 2 can be simplified using the given condition that all the primes are distinct.
Case 2: 3 is one of our primes. If three of our primes are 3 , then their sum is 9 . So assume that at most two of our primes are three. Let our primes be 3 , p 2 , p 3 , p 4 , p 5 , with the possibility that p 2 = 3 . Note that p 3 , p 4 , p 5 all must must be congruent to 1 mod 3 or 2 mod 3 . If they are all congruent to each other, the argument from Case 1 shows that their is not prime. If they are not all congruent, WLOG say p 3 ≡ 1 m o d 3 and p 4 ≡ 2 m o d 3 . Then 3 + p 3 + p 4 ≡ 0 m o d 3 and, since this sum cannot be 3, it must be composite.