Consider all pairs of positive reals subject to
x 1 + y 8 = 1 .
To 2 decimal places, what is the minimum value of
x + y + x 2 + y 2 ?
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Can someone please explain the error in this?
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My apologies for the formatting blunder. It was my first post.
Using AM-GM,
x + y + x 2 + y 2 ≥ ( 2 + 2 ) x y .
Using GM-HM,
x 8 y ≥ x 1 + y 8 2 .
From 1 and 2 and using the given information,
x + y + x 2 + y 2 ≥ 8 ( 1 + 2 ) = 1 9 . 3 1 .
Can someone please explain the error in this?
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Note that when you are applying AM-GM the equality case is x = y whereas when you apply GM-HM the equality case is x = 8 y . However this is incorrect since both the equality cases must be the same.
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@Karthik Kannan – sorry didnt get you ........ @Karthik Kannan
If we take y=20/3 and x= -5 the value of the above expression is 10. Why isn't this a valid solution? Needless to say these values of x and y satisfy the condition 1/x + 8/y= 1
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Note the condition that x and y are positive
Can you please please tell me the generalized form of doing such simplifications using trigonometry or polar coordinates? WHat is this called? How do we know when this is to be used? Thanks in advance @Karthik Kannan
I used Lagrange Multipliers to get the solution x=4.3333332229288, y=10.399999729024 we get minimum value as 26
This is not a complete solution. For the complete generalized solution, see Unravelling an Inequality Problem .
Consider the geometric interpretation of x + y + x 2 + y 2 . The natural one is to set up a right angled triangle with legs of x and y and a hypotenuse of x 2 + y 2 . We are thus after the perimeter of this triangle.
Let O = ( 0 , 0 ) , A = ( x , 0 ) and B = ( 0 , y ) . Then, the given condition is equivalent to saying that the point P = ( 1 , 8 ) lies on the line segment A B . This characterizes all such triangles.
Consider the circle with center ( 1 3 , 1 3 ) and radius 13. This circle is tangential to the x-axis, the y-axis and passes through the point ( 1 , 8 ) .
Claim: The perimeter is minimized when A B is tangential to this circle at P . Proof: See Unravelling an Inequality Problem .
In particular, the minimum is achieved when x = 3 1 3 and y = 5 5 2 . The value is 2 × 1 3 = 2 6 .
How would you generalize this solution? Where did 13 come from?
How did you guess that the circle with center (13,13) and radius 13 will pass through the point (1,8)?
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@Calvin Lin I've also been thinking about the solution to this problem since the last five days. Can you please provide a full solution to this problem by your method?
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I've written up the generalized version here , with an explanation of how to obtain the circle, and why we want the line to be tangential at the point P.
How do such amazing methods come to your minds...??
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In this case, I has the benefit of knowing how I wanted to set up the problem. This question arose from me studying the above geometric configuration, and then creating the algebraic inequality.
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Sir i am preparing for jee its a competitive exam in india how to improve my problem solving skills in maths how to get the ideas strike to me within the time constraint i know i have to practice but a tip on how to practice and how to think new methods will be highly appreciated..
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@Rajsuryan Singh – You can check out the practice section, which helps you develop specific skills in each of the topics. We will also be building out exercises targeted at JEE, over the next few months. That should be extremely helpful for you to work with.
YES! Best problem ever. :D
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What's great about this problem?
What was your approach to solving it? It's somewhat non-trivial (even calculus approaches get somewhat tedious).
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You should know by now that I'm a sucker for a good maximum/minimum problem. :D
Darn, this problem was harder than I thought. I got the wrong answer, but the system thought I was correct because of its weird rounding problem.
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@Daniel Liu – Yeah. Did you use analytic geometry like Calvin or a more blunt approach like me?
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@Finn Hulse – I actually tried to find the minimum based on the fact that ( x , y ) are the coordinates of a hyperbola. However, that didn't really go anywhere so I kinda just guessed the value.
I switched to polar coordinates, then the second equation is equivalent to:
r ( 1 + cos θ + sin θ ) = ( cos θ 1 + sin θ 8 ) ( 1 + cos θ + sin θ )
= 9 + cos θ 1 + sin θ 8 + sin θ 8 cos θ + cos θ sin θ
To minimise the above expression, Calculus isn't the best choice and I feel this expression can be easily handled through the use of some inequality but I suck at them so I have no idea. (Sorry, I used W|A to find the minimum. :3 )
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I too used the same approach.
However I further simplified it as follows:
f ( θ ) = 9 + cos θ 1 + sin θ + 8 sin θ 1 + cos θ
Converting to half angle:
f ( θ ) = 9 + 1 − tan 2 θ 1 + tan 2 θ + tan 2 θ 8
So f ( θ ) = 8 + 2 ( 1 − tan 2 θ 1 + tan 2 θ 4 )
Now again we can put tan 2 θ = t to obtain:
8 + 2 ( 1 − t 1 + t 4 )
Now the minimum of the above can be easily found using calculus.
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@Pranav Arora – If you use Karthik's transformation (which is a great insight), it suffices to show that
1 − t 1 + t 4 ≥ 9
This follows immediately from Cauchy Schwarz, because
( 1 − t 1 + t 4 ) [ ( 1 − t ) + t ] ≥ [ 1 + 4 ] 2 = 9 .
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@Calvin Lin – That is nice, thank you! :)
@Calvin Lin – Oh, yes Sir this is much better than the calculus approach! : )
@Pranav Arora – No, really no idea about the inequality approach.I don't know much about inequalities.
Oh nice. I didn't think of polar coordinates as there were no square terms. I like your further substitution, which simplified the expression. Can you post this as a separate solution? Thanks!
Can you please please tell me the generalized form of doing such simplifications using trigonometry or polar coordinates? WHat is this called? How do we know when this is to be used? Thanks in advance @Pranav Arora
x has to be greater than 1 and y has to be greater than 8, and as these are positive ints by trial 10 and 5 give the min value. rest after a point u see value of the given eq just increases
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Note that the minimum doesn't occur at 10 and 5. They actually occur at fractional values, which I have listed above.
By the mean inequalities, x 2 + y 2 ≥ 2 a + b ⟹ x + y + x 2 + y 2 ≥ ( x + y ) ( 1 + 2 1 ) And the equality holds if and only if x = y , given that this extremum is reachable. It seems reachable since everything is defined when x = y and we also have x = y = 9 ⟹ x + y + x 2 + y 2 ≥ 1 8 + 9 2 , which is about 30.73. Could anyone explain anything that is wrong about my reasoning? Thanks.
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While the first equality is true, it need not be true that x + y ≥ 1 8 . For example, in the solution above, we have x + y ≈ 1 5 . 7 .
Note: To type Latex, you need to use the brackets \ ( \ ) instead of $$.
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To make it more clear what I mean, x 2 + y 2 ≥ 2 x + y ⟹ x + y + x 2 + y 2 ≥ x + y + 2 x + y And the equality in the former is reached when x = y = 9 , hence the equality in the latter is reached this way as well. Therefore the minimum is reached when x = y = 9 ⟹ 1 8 + 9 2 is the minimum value. What is wrong with this? :(
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@Mathh Mathh – While it is true that
x + y + x 2 + y 2 ≥ ( x + y ) ( 1 + 2 1 )
it is not true that
( x + y ) ( 1 + 2 1 ) ≥ 1 8 ( 1 + 2 1 )
You have yet to show that x + y ≥ 1 8 , which is not a true statement. For example, we could have x = 5 , y = 1 0 which gives us x + y = 1 0 . In fact, we have
5 + 1 0 + 5 2 + 1 0 2 < 1 8 ( 1 + 2 1 )
Shouldn't y be equal to 52/5 ?
SIR YOU ARE GREAT ......MY UTMOST REVERENCE @Calvin Lin
minimum is achieved when x = 3 1 3 and y = 5 5 2 . Just a small typo.
this is really nice.better than the calculus solution.
should the answer be exactly 26.00? i reasoned by thinking that if i minimize (x+y) then i will be able to automatically minimize sqrt(x^2 + y^2). thus, expressing y in terms of x then replace y in (x+y) with it, we get (x^2 - 2x -7)/(1-x). we take the minima which equals 1+2sqrt(2). then solving for y, we get 8+2sqrt(2). finally, substituting the values of x and y in x + y + sqrt(x^2 + y^2) = 26.14...
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm getting answer as 26.14 Sorry for not using formats, I'm unable to do so properly.
1/x + 8/y = 1
8x + y = xy
(x -1)(y - 8) - 8 = 0
(x - 1)(y - 8) = 8
(m)(n) = 8 (Let m, n)
For lowest sum value, m and n should be equal to square root. So x = 2sqrt{2} + 1; y = 2sqrt{2} + 8
Putting the values, we get 12 + 10sqrt2 = 26.14
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Let x = R cos θ and y = R sin θ
As both x > 0 and y > 0 we shall assume that R > 0 and 0 < θ < 2 π
Substituting the above values in the given relation:
R cos θ 1 + R sin θ 8 = 1
Thus R = sin θ cos θ sin θ + 8 cos θ
So substituting the above values in the expression whose minimum value has to be found we get:
R ( sin θ + cos θ + 1 )
= sin θ cos θ sin θ + 8 cos θ ( sin θ + cos θ + 1 )
Now let the value of the given expression be f ( θ ) . Expanding and rearranging we get:
f ( θ ) = 9 + cos θ 1 + sin θ + 8 sin θ 1 + cos θ
Converting to half angle:
f ( θ ) = 9 + 1 − tan 2 θ 1 + tan 2 θ + tan 2 θ 8
So f ( θ ) = 8 + 2 ( 1 − tan 2 θ 1 + tan 2 θ 4 )
Now again we can put tan 2 θ = t to obtain:
8 + 2 ( 1 − t 1 + t 4 )
Differentiating w.r.t. t and equating it to 0 we get the following equation:
3 t 2 − 8 t + 4 = 0
whose roots are t = 3 2 and t = 2
Hence tan 2 θ = 3 2 or tan 2 θ = 2
However note that tan 2 θ = 2 is rejected because if it were true then θ would be greater than 2 π .
Hence the minimum value must occur at tan 2 θ = 3 2
Substituting we obtain 2 6 . 0 0