List 'em Out!

Two numbers x x and y y are chosen at random without replacement from the first 30 30 natural numbers. the probability that x 2 y 2 x^{2} - y^{2} is divisible by 3 3 is given by a b \frac{a}{b} . where a and b are co-prime to each other. Then a + b a+b is equal to


The answer is 134.

This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and, finally, (c) loading the non-javascript version of this page . We're sorry about the hassle.

5 solutions

Akshaj Kadaveru
Dec 23, 2013

Notice 0 2 0 ( m o d 3 ) 0^2 \equiv 0\pmod3 and 1 2 , 2 2 1 ( m o d 3 ) 1^2, 2^2 \equiv 1\pmod{3} . We must have x 2 y 2 ( m o d 3 ) x^2 \equiv y^2 \pmod 3 .

If x 2 y 2 0 ( m o d 3 ) x^2 \equiv y^2 \equiv 0 \pmod3 , there are ( 10 2 ) \dbinom{10}{2} ways to select x , y x,y from the 30 3 \dfrac{30}{3} multiples of three.

If x 2 y 2 1 ( m o d 3 ) x^2 \equiv y^2 \equiv 1 \pmod{3} , there are ( 20 2 ) \dbinom{20}{2} ways to select x , y x,y from the 30 10 = 20 30-10 = 20 non-multiples of three.

Our answer is ( 10 2 ) + ( 20 2 ) ( 30 2 ) = 45 + 190 435 = 47 87 134 \dfrac{\dbinom{10}{2} + \dbinom{20}{2}}{\dbinom{30}{2}} = \dfrac{45 + 190}{435} = \dfrac{47}{87} \implies \boxed{134} .

For more help with Modular Arithmetic, see here

Superb solution.

Soham Dibyachintan - 7 years, 5 months ago

We know that x 2 1 , 0 m o d 3 x^{2} \equiv 1,0 \mod{3} . Hence the possibilities for x 2 y 2 x^{2} - y^{2} not to be divisible by 3 3 are just x 0 m o d 3 y ≢ 0 m o d 3 x \equiv 0 \mod{3} \wedge y \not\equiv 0 \mod{3} and the other way round, therefore 20 10 + 10 20 20*10 + 10*20 ordinate couples. All of the ordinate couples are 30 29 30*29 . So , 1 20 10 + 10 20 30 29 = 47 87 1- \frac{20*10 + 10*20}{30*29} = \frac{47}{87} gives us the probability , and 47 + 87 = 134 47 + 87 = 134 the result.

In this case you are assuming that each possible pair has equal number of choices, which is incorrect.

(3n,3n), (3n+1,3n+1) and (3n+2,3n+2) has 45 possibilities for (x,y) since we are choosing 2 numbers out of 10.

(3n,3n+1), (3n,3n+2) and (3n+1,3n+2) each has 100 possibilities since we are looking at 10 numbers in each form.

The 6 pairs have a total of 435 possibilities, which is consistent with the value we get when we choose 2 numbers out of 30.

The pairs divisible by 3 are the ones which you have correctly picked out, which gives you a total of (100+45x3)/435 = 235/435 = 47/87

Song Kai Tan - 7 years, 5 months ago

Log in to reply

I reckon neither mine nor yours are incorrect , we just follow different paths. Indeed I specified I was picking ordinate couples , the total of which is definitely 30*29 . What you found is , on the other hand , the total of non-ordinate couples which is fine if you stay coherent with what you have done before : so did I , and therefore the number was , for ordinate couples (x,y), 20(when x =/= 0 mod 3) * 10(y = 0 mod 3) + 10(when x = 0 mod 3) * 20 ( when y =/= 0 mod 3).

Alessio Di Lorenzo - 7 years, 5 months ago

Log in to reply

Your solution is correct. Song Kai Tan is assuming that x 2 y 2 x^2-y^2 and y 2 x 2 y^2-x^2 are the same and shouldn't be counted twice, however (x,y) and (y,x) are two different possibilities.

i.e. " (3n,3n), (3n+1,3n+1) and (3n+2,3n+2) has 90 possibilities for (x,y) since we are choosing 2 numbers out of 10. "

or

" (3n,3n+1), (3n,3n+2) and (3n+1,3n+2) each has 200 possibilities since we are looking at 10 numbers in each form.. "

Pouya Hamadanian - 7 years, 5 months ago

Log in to reply

@Pouya Hamadanian Ok thanks for pointing that out, it was an oversight on my part. I suppose the question should have been phrased in a way to assume that x> y or y> x, so that there is no ambiguity over the sign of x^2-y^2

Song Kai Tan - 7 years, 5 months ago

I get your solution,but whats wrong with this approach. There are 10 nos. each of the form 3n,3n+1 and 3n+2. x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y) We can have the pair of nos, in the following ways, (3n,3n) (3n,3n+1) (3n,3n+2) (3n+1,3n+1) (3n+1,3n+2) (3n+2,3n+2). Of these pairs ,(3n,3n) (3n+1,3n+1) (3n+1,3n+2) (3n+2,3n+2), are divisible by 3. So, should'nt we have direct ans as 4/6 or 2/3??? Am i missing any cases??

Pratik Vora - 7 years, 5 months ago
Pratik Satish
Dec 23, 2013

We can see that all number squares are of the form 3k+1 or 3k for some integer k. So both nos x&y should either be both divisible my 3 in which case their squares will be of the form 3m &3n and thus their difference is divisible by 3 Or the 2 nos may both be not divisible by 3 in which case their squares are 3m+1 & 3n+1 form their difference again being divisible by 3 So x&y can be chosen in (10 choose 2)+ (20 choose 2) ways out of total possible 30 choose 2 ways thus answer is 47/87 i.e 47 + 87 = 134

I get your solution,but whats wrong with this approach. There are 10 nos. each of the form 3n,3n+1 and 3n+2.

x^2-y^2=(x+y)(x-y)

We can have the pair of nos, in the following ways, (3n,3n) (3n,3n+1) (3n,3n+2) (3n+1,3n+1) (3n+1,3n+2) (3n+2,3n+2).

Of these,(3n,3n) (3n+1,3n+1) (3n+1,3n+2) (3n+2,3n+2), are divisible by 3.

So, should'nt we have direct ans as 4/6 or 2/3??? Am i missing any cases??

Pratik Vora - 7 years, 5 months ago

Log in to reply

The no of pairs following each case is not equal for eg. There are 45 unordered x,y of the form(3m,3n) but 100 of the form (3m,3n+1). Thus you cant take the no of favoured outcomes as 4 since it is actually sum of total pairs following each case . Let me know if you get it now or ill explain in further length

Pratik Satish - 7 years, 5 months ago
Dennis Gulko
Jan 12, 2014

For any x x , we have x 2 0 ( m o d 3 ) x^2\equiv0\pmod3 or x 2 1 ( m o d 3 ) x^2\equiv1\pmod3 . Hence x 2 y 2 x^2-y^2 is divisible by 3 3 if and only if both x , y x,y are divisble by 3 3 or both x , y x,y are not divisble by 3 3 .

There are 10 10 numbers less than 30 30 divisible by 3 3 , so there are ( 10 2 ) \binom{10}{2} options to choose two of those.

There are 20 20 numbers less than 30 30 not divisible by 3 3 , so there are ( 20 2 ) \binom{20}{2} options to choose two of those.

There are total of ( 30 2 ) \binom{30}{2} options to choose a pair, so the probability we seek is: ( 10 2 ) + ( 20 2 ) ( 30 2 ) = 235 435 = 47 87 = a b \frac{\binom{10}{2}+\binom{20}{2}}{\binom{30}{2}}=\frac{235}{435}=\frac{47}{87}=\frac{a}{b} So a + b = 47 + 87 = 134 a+b=47+87=134

Pebrudal Zanu
Dec 23, 2013

Look for number: x 0 ( m o d 3 ) x \equiv 0 \pmod{3} x 1 ( m o d 3 ) x \equiv 1 \pmod{3} x 2 ( m o d 3 ) x \equiv 2 \pmod{3}

Case I: If we choice number remainder 2 as first number, there is two subcase, first subcase pair remainder of ( x y ) (xy) are ( 2 , 2 (2,2 . Second subcase pair remainder of x , y ) x,y) are 2 , 1 2,1

probability x 2 y 2 ( m o d 3 ) x^2-y^2 \equiv \pmod{3} is 10 30 × 9 29 + 10 30 × 10 29 = 19 87 \displaystyle \frac{10}{30} \times \frac{9}{29}+\frac{10}{30} \times \frac{10}{29}=\frac{19}{87}

case II If we choice first number is 1 ( m o d 3 ) 1 \equiv \pmod{3} It's same case I, because case I and case II symetric relation so probability is

(\displaystyle \frac{9}{29}+\frac{10}{30} \times \frac{10}{29}=\frac{19}{87})

Case III

If first number x 0 ( m o d 3 ) x \equiv 0 \pmod{3}

Probability for this case is 10 30 9 29 = 9 29 \displaystyle \frac{10}{30} \frac{9}{29}=\frac{9}{29}

Now, Probability x 2 y 2 x^2-y^2 divisible by 3 is:

P ( A ) = 2 × 19 87 + 9 87 = 47 87 P(A)=2 \times \frac{19}{87}+ \frac{9}{87}=\frac{47}{87}

So, a + b = 47 + 87 = 134 a+b=47+87=\fbox{134} as desired.

0 pending reports

×

Problem Loading...

Note Loading...

Set Loading...