Apply Vieta's?

Algebra Level 5

{ a + b + c = 0 a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 1 \large{\begin{cases} a+b+c = 0 \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2} = 1 \end{cases} }

Let a , b , c a,b,c be real numbers satisfying the above system of equations. Find the maximum possible value of ( 9 a b c ) 2 (9abc)^2 .


The answer is 1.5.

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10 solutions

First we are going to find a b + a c + b c ab+ac+bc with the identity ( a + b + c ) 2 = a 2 + b 2 + c 2 + 2 ( a b + a c + b c ) (a+b+c)^2=a^2+b^2+c^2+2(ab+ac+bc) :

a b + a c + b c = 1 2 ab+ac+bc=-\dfrac{1}{2}

Then consider a monic polynomial P ( x ) P(x) with roots a , b a,b and c c . Then:

P ( x ) = ( x a ) ( x b ) ( x c ) = x 3 ( a + b + c ) x 2 + ( a b + a c + b c ) x a b c P(x)=(x-a)(x-b)(x-c)=x^3-(a+b+c)x^2+(ab+ac+bc)x-abc

Substituting the known values:

P ( x ) = x 3 1 2 x a b c P(x)=x^3-\dfrac{1}{2}x-abc

Now, for a , b a,b and c c to be real the discriminant of P P must be greater than or equal to zero. Also, the discriminant of P ( x ) = x 3 + p x + q P(x)=x^3+px+q is just Δ = 4 p 3 27 q 2 \Delta=-4p^3-27q^2 , so:

Δ = 4 ( 1 2 ) 3 27 ( a b c ) 2 0 \Delta=-4\left(-\dfrac{1}{2}\right)^3-27(-abc)^2 \geq 0

4 ( 1 8 ) + 27 ( a b c ) 2 0 4\left(-\dfrac{1}{8}\right)+27(abc)^2 \leq 0

27 ( a b c ) 2 1 2 27(abc)^2 \leq \dfrac{1}{2}

( 9 a b c ) 2 3 2 (9abc)^2 \leq \boxed{\dfrac{3}{2}}

Instead of diving into cubics, I did it using quadratics.

a + b = c a+b=-c

a 2 + b 2 = 1 c 2 a b = 2 c 2 1 2 a^2+b^2=1-c^2 \Rightarrow ab=\frac{2c^{2}-1}{2}

Then a , b a,b are the roots of the polynomial:

x 2 + c x + 2 c 2 1 2 x^2+cx+\frac{2c^{2}-1}{2}

Since a , b R a,b \in \mathbb{R} , we must have:

c 2 4 c 2 + 2 0 c^2-4c^2+2 \geq 0

c 2 2 3 c^2 \leq \frac{2}{3}

c 2 3 c \leq \sqrt{\frac{2}{3}}

Also,

a b = 2 c 2 1 2 1 6 ab=\frac{2c^{2}-1}{2} \leq \frac{1}{6}

Therefore, a b c 1 6 × 2 3 abc \leq \frac{1}{6} \times \sqrt{\frac{2}{3}}

81 ( a b c ) 2 3 2 \Rightarrow 81(abc)^2 \leq \frac{3}{2}

Aditya Parson - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Interesting variation, Aditya.

I don't think anyone has done it my way (hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong) so I'll throw it in here as well ...

Claim: For a , b 0 a,b \ge 0 and a 2 + b 2 + ( a + b ) 2 = 1 a^2 +b^2 +(a+b)^2 =1 , the maximum value of a b ( a + b ) ab(a+b) occurs when a = b a=b .

Proof: Rewriting the above equation as a 2 + b 2 + a b = 1 / 2 a^2 +b^2 +ab =1/2 , we note that the maximization of a b ab and the maximization of a + b a+b both coincide with the minimization of a 2 + b 2 a^2 +b^2 (so of course this will also maximize a b ( a + b ) ab(a+b) ). But this is also equivalent to minimizing the ratio a 2 + b 2 a b = a b + b a \frac{a^2+b^2}{ab}=\frac{a}{b}+ \frac{b}{a} , and it can be shown using single-variable calculus that this occurs when a b = 1 \frac{a}{b}=1 , as desired. QED

The answer 1.5 can be computed from there. (Note that a , b 0 a,b \ge 0 is not in the original problem but can be assumed without loss of generality.)

Peter Byers - 5 years, 8 months ago

This is 'THE' best approach!

Harsh Shrivastava - 5 years, 8 months ago

P.S. I would only suggest one change, Aditya. Namely to begin by stating your assumptions on the signs of a , b , c a,b,c .

More specifically, your ending works if you assume that a , b 0 a,b \le 0 and c 0 c \ge 0 (an assumption which is allowable, WLOG).

But that aside, very nice solution!

Peter Byers - 5 years, 8 months ago

and please have a look at my solution...

Dev Sharma - 5 years, 8 months ago

sir, how did you find D?

Dev Sharma - 5 years, 8 months ago

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The derivation of the discriminant of a cubic polynomial is a little hard, but for this form where there is no x 2 x^2 term it's easier. Remember that the discriminant of a monic polynomial is the square of all products of every difference between its roots. Have a look in wikipedia, there is more information about it.

Alan Enrique Ontiveros Salazar - 5 years, 8 months ago

What is the discriminant of a general 3degree eqn?

Shyambhu Mukherjee - 5 years, 8 months ago

I followed the same method though.

If I told you the error I did, you'd smash your face. Nice solution.

@Harsh Shrivastava Isn't this problem overrated?

Mehul Arora - 5 years, 8 months ago

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I agree that it is overrated.

Julian Poon - 5 years, 8 months ago

and have a look at my solution

Dev Sharma - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Your solution is not clear. I'd advise you to use LaTeX.

Mehul Arora - 5 years, 8 months ago

Or maybe you are a genius? 😜

What's the flaw?

Harsh Shrivastava - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Nah. No genius things here :P

No flaw. I was just saying that if I told you the Error I made, you'll smash your face, like, how can someone be so dumb.

But on a serious note. This can be a 160 point prob.

Mehul Arora - 5 years, 8 months ago

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@Mehul Arora Ohk , BTW you are right the prob's overrated.

Harsh Shrivastava - 5 years, 8 months ago
Aritra Jana
Sep 21, 2015

Consider a monic cubic polynomial with roots as a,b,c \text{Consider a monic cubic polynomial with roots as a,b,c}

P ( x ) = x 3 + S 1 x 2 + S 2 x + S 3 P(x)=x^{3}+S_{1}x^{2}+S_{2}x+S_{3}

By Vieta’s Sums: a + b + c = S 1 = 0 and a b + b c + c a = 1 2 and a b c = S 3 \text{By Vieta's Sums: } a+b+c=-S_{1}=0\text{ and } ab+bc+ca=-\frac{1}{2} \text{ and } abc=-S_{3}

P ( x ) = x 3 1 2 x + S 3 \therefore P(x)=x^{3}-\frac{1}{2}x+S_{3}

But P ( x ) = 3 x 2 1 2 \text{But } P'(x)=3x^{2}-\frac{1}{2}

Critical points of this function are at: x = + 1 6 \text{Critical points of this function are at: } x=\frac{+}{-} \frac{1}{\sqrt{6}}

for the function to have three REAL roots, the maxima and minima of the function MUST BE greater than and less than zero respectively \text{for the function to have three REAL roots, the } \textbf{maxima and minima } \text{of the function MUST BE } \textbf{greater than and less than zero respectively}

GRAPHICALLY: This can be easily understood by the fact that for the function to have three real roots, the \text{GRAPHICALLY: This can be easily understood by the fact that for the function to have three real roots, the }

curve must cut the X-axis at three points, which is possible only if the curve BULGES OUTWARD of the axis, \text{curve must cut the X-axis at three points, which is possible only if the curve BULGES OUTWARD of the axis,}

which again, is only possible if the critical points lie alternately above and below the X axis for max. and min. \text{which again, is only possible if the critical points lie alternately above and below the X axis for max. and min.}

P ( 1 6 ) > 0 S 3 > 1 3 6 a b c < 1 3 6 \therefore P(\frac{1}{\sqrt{6}})>0 \implies S_{3}>\frac{1}{3\sqrt{6}} \implies abc<-\frac{1}{3\sqrt{6}}

( 9 a b c ) 2 < 1.5 \therefore (9abc)^{2}<\boxed{1.5}

I think P(-1/sqrt(6)) should be greater than 0 instead of P(1/sqrt(6))

Andy Zhang - 5 years, 8 months ago

here a+b+c=0 and a^2+b^2+c^2=1 that's why we get from (a+b+c)^2 formula that ab+bc+ca= -1/2 and then a(b+c)+bc= -1/2 => a(-a)+ X/a= -1/2 [ let abc= X ] then X= a^3- a/2 then differentiated by a parameter for getting maximum value of X (abc) then we get a= +- Sq. root (1/6) and put this value above equation and get (9X)^2= (9abc)^2= 3/2 or 1.5

Hmm nice work!

Harsh Shrivastava - 5 years, 8 months ago

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thank you Harsh Shrivastava

Akhtaruzzaman Rokon - 5 years, 8 months ago
Michele Baldo
Sep 24, 2015

First let's semplify a bit the system of equation:

{ a + b + c = 0 a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 1 \begin{cases} a+b+c=0 \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+c^{2}=1 \end{cases}

{ c = ( a + b ) a 2 + b 2 + [ ( a + b ) ] 2 = 1 \begin{cases} c=-(a+b) \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+[-(a+b)]^{2}=1 \end{cases}

{ c = ( a + b ) a 2 + b 2 + a 2 + 2 a b + b 2 = 1 \begin{cases} c=-(a+b) \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+a^{2}+2ab+b^{2}=1 \end{cases}

{ c = ( a + b ) 2 a 2 + 2 b 2 + 2 a b = 1 \begin{cases} c=-(a+b) \\ 2a^{2}+2b^{2}+2ab=1 \end{cases}

{ c = ( a + b ) a 2 + b 2 + a b = 1 2 \begin{cases} c=-(a+b) \\ a^{2}+b^{2}+ab=\frac{1}{2} \end{cases}

Second semplify what we are searching for:

( 9 a b c ) 2 = 3 4 a 2 b 2 c 2 = 3 4 a 2 b 2 [ ( a + b ) ] 2 = 3 4 ( a b ) 2 ( a + b ) 2 (9abc)^{2} = 3^{4}a^{2}b^{2}c^{2} = 3^{4}a^{2}b^{2}[-(a+b)]^{2} = 3^{4}(ab)^{2}(a+b)^{2}

Now we know from the equation a 2 + b 2 + a b = 1 2 a^{2}+b^{2}+ab=\frac{1}{2} that if a a increase b b mast decrease to keep true the equation. Also knowing that the product of a b ab is greater smoller is the difference between a a and b b , see if a = b a=b (a-b=0, the smollest possible) is a solution and, if it is, what is the result. So be x = a = b x=a=b :

x 2 + x 2 + x × x = 1 2 x^{2}+x^{2}+x\times x=\frac{1}{2}

3 x 2 = 1 2 3x^{2}=\frac{1}{2}

x 2 = 1 6 x^{2}=\frac{1}{6}

And finally find (9abc)^{2}:

3 4 ( a b ) 2 ( a + b ) 2 = 3 4 ( x × x ) 2 ( 2 x ) 2 = 3 4 ( x 2 ) 2 4 x 2 = 3 4 × ( 1 6 ) 2 × 4 6 = 3 2 = 1.5 3^{4}(ab)^{2}(a+b)^{2} = 3^{4}(x\times x)^{2}(2x)^{2} = 3^{4} (x^{2})^2 4x^{2} = 3^{4}\times (\frac{1}{6})^{2}\times \frac{4}{6} = \frac{3}{2} = 1.5

So the solution is 1.5 \boxed{1.5}

Dev Sharma
Sep 21, 2015

y + z = x y + z = -x

y 2 + z 2 = 1 x 2 y^2 + z^2 = 1 - x^2

apply CS inequality we get

root(2/3) >= x

so let x = root(2/3)

then y + z y + z = -root(2/3)

and

y 2 + z 2 = 1 / 3 y^2 + z^2 = 1/3

so y = z = -root2/2.root3

solving gives answer 1.5

i applied CS inequality in this way :

2 ( y 2 + z 2 ) > = ( y + z ) 2 2(y^2 + z^2)>=(y + z)^2

Dev Sharma - 5 years, 8 months ago

sorry, i suppose x = a, y = b and z = c... Any feedback? Harsh Srivastav

Dev Sharma - 5 years, 8 months ago
Andy Hayes
Sep 24, 2015

I initially tried to solve this problem using a Cauchy-Schwarz inequality. There must be an error in my approach, because it does not yield the correct solution. I was wondering if someone could take a look at my approach and identify my error. I am rather new to CS inequalities, so I am not always sure when they are applicable or what kind of assumptions need to be made.

I obtained the following identity using a similar approach to others: a b + a c + b c = 1 2 ab+ac+bc=-\frac{1}{2}

I then obtained a new identity by squaring both sides of this equation:

a 2 b 2 + a 2 c 2 + b 2 c 2 + 2 a 2 b c + 2 a b 2 c + 2 a b c 2 = 1 4 a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2+2a^2bc+2ab^2c+2abc^2=\frac{1}{4}

a 2 b 2 + a 2 c 2 + b 2 c 2 + 2 a b c ( a + b + c ) = 1 4 a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2+2abc(a+b+c)=\frac{1}{4}

a 2 b 2 + a 2 c 2 + b 2 c 2 + 2 a b c ( 0 ) = 1 4 a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2+2abc(0)=\frac{1}{4}

a 2 b 2 + a 2 c 2 + b 2 c 2 = 1 4 a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2=\frac{1}{4}

I then set up the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality like so:

( a 2 b 2 + a 2 c 2 + b 2 c 2 ) ( c 2 + b 2 + a 2 ) ( a b c + a b c + a b c ) 2 (a^2b^2+a^2c^2+b^2c^2)(c^2+b^2+a^2)\ge(abc+abc+abc)^2

( 1 4 ) ( 1 ) ( 3 a b c ) 2 (\frac{1}{4})(1)\ge(3abc)^2

1 4 ( 3 a b c ) 2 \frac{1}{4}\ge(3abc)^2

Multiplying both sides of the inequality by 9 9 yields:

9 4 ( 9 a b c ) 2 \frac{9}{4}\ge(9abc)^2

This implies that the maximum value of ( 9 a b c ) 2 (9abc)^2 is 9 4 \frac{9}{4} , which is not true.

Ah... Just a common mistake when applying classical inequalities.

You have already assumed that at the maximum value, a 2 = b 2 = c 2 a^2 = b^2 = c^2 must be true. Which is actually false, because the first equation a + b + c = 0 a+b+c=0 can't be fulfilled.

In fact, the maximum value occurs at ( a 2 , b 2 , c 2 ) = ( 2 / 3 , 1 / 6 , 1 / 6 ) (a^2,b^2, c^2) = (2/3, 1/6,1/6) or any other permutation.

The common myth when solving classical inequalities is to assume that a = b = c a=b=c . See relevant wiki: Inequalities with strange equality conditions .

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 6 months ago
Nikola Djuric
Dec 14, 2015

From a²+b²+c²=1 We can replace a²+b²+c²= sin²(x)×(cos²(y)+sin²(y))+cos²(y) i.e. a=sin(x)sin(y),b=cos(x)sin(y),c=cos(y) So because a+b+c=0 we have sin(y)(sin(x)+cos(x))+cos(y)=0 I.e. sin(x)+cos(x)=-cos(y)/sin(y) So squaring that we get 1+sin(2x)=(1-sin²(y))/sin²(y) so sin(2x)=1/sin²(y)-2=(1-2sin²(y))/sin²(y) So 81a²b²c²=81sin²(x)cos²(x)sin⁴(y)cos²(y) =81/4×sin²(2x)sin⁴(y)(1-sin²(y))= 81/4×(1-2sin²(y))²(1-sin²(y)) Put sin²(y)=p, 0<=p<=1 So we need to find max of f(p)=81/4×(1-2p)²(1-p) i.e. f(p)=81/4×(-4p³+8p²-5p+1) So 0=f'(p)=81/4(-12p²+16p-5) p=1/2 or p=5/6 So we choose p=5/6 because f(0.5)=0 So max is 81/4×(1-10/6)²(1-5/6)= 81/4×4/9×1/6=3/2=1.5

Kun Pakawat
Sep 24, 2015

My solution is quite intuitive though. Please correct me if I make some mistakes.

First notice that if one of them is 0 then the product is 0. If only one of them is negative and the rest are positive then the product is negative. Similarly, if only one of them is positive and the rest are negative then the product is positive.

Therefore, WLOG assume a,b < 0 and c > 0 c = a b c = -a - b c 2 = ( a + b ) 2 c^2 = (a+b)^2 Thus, a 2 + b 2 + c 2 = 2 ( a 2 + b 2 + a b ) = 1 a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 2(a^2+b^2+ab) = 1 So, now we are maximizing 3 4 a 2 b 2 ( a 2 + b 2 + 2 a b ) = 3 4 a 2 b 2 ( a 2 + b 2 + a b + a b ) = 3 4 a 2 b 2 ( 1 / 2 + a b ) 3^4a^2b^2(a^2+b^2+2ab) = 3^4a^2b^2(a^2+b^2+ab + ab) =3^4a^2b^2(1/2 + ab)

Let X = ab >0, so we are maximizing x 2 ( 1 / 2 + x ) x^2(1/2+x) which is an increasing function on X. That is, if we can maximize ab we will have the answer to this. By AM-GM inequality (note that AM-GM assume all values are positive but in our case they are all negative anyways, so we may assume a' = |a| >0 and everything work just fine) 1 / 6 = ( a 2 + b 2 + a b ) / 3 a b 1/6 = (a^2+b^2+ab)/3 \geq ab Therefore, the maximum occurs at a=b (x = 1/6) Thus

( 9 a b c ) 2 3 4 ( 1 / 6 ) 2 ( 1 / 2 + 1 / 6 ) = 3 / 2 (9abc)^2 \leq 3^4(1/6)^2(1/2+1/6) = 3/2

EDIT: I forgot the rule of thumb :D ... have to make sure those values exist. This is trivial: by AM-GM we know that a=b makes this work. That is |a|= |b| = 1/sqrt(6) (ie., a =b = -1/sqrt(6), c = 2/sqrt(6))

Lets proceed by trigonometry as all a,b,c have upper and lower limits. Solving for 'a' in terms of 'b' after eliminating 'c' using these two equations we get -sqrt(2/3)<= b sqrt(2/3). ( just make discriminant so obtained positive as 'a' is real.) so let; b=sqrt(2/3)(sin x). putitng this b back in 'a' and 'c' equation gives .................. 81aabbcc = (3/2)(sin x)(sin x) { (sin x)(sin x) - 3(cos x)(cos x) }. Clearly this maximum when sin x =1. which gives the maximum value as.......................1.5.

Alexey Kononenko
Sep 22, 2015

It isn't stupid, it shows that 1.5 is one value that occurs, namely when a=b. So then you could consider how to prove that it is the largest value that occurs.

Peter Byers - 5 years, 8 months ago

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The a*b is maximized, when the a equals b. In terms, that we have a constant c, and the sum of a and b is a constant too. And a and b have the same sign.

Alexey Kononenko - 5 years, 8 months ago

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The a*b is maximized, when the a equals b.

Yes. That's one of the things I showed in my solution.

Peter Byers - 5 years, 8 months ago

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