x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3
How many real roots does the polynomial above have?
This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try
refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and,
finally, (c)
loading the
non-javascript version of this page
. We're sorry about the hassle.
For completeness, can you explain why these polynomials are strictly positive?
You don't need to use derivatives. A simple use of Descartes Rule of Sign should handle it. Let f ( x ) = x 2 n + 1 − 1 , then f ( x ) has one change in sign and f ( − x ) has no change in sign. So f ( x ) has one real root only.
Log in to reply
but f(-x) has change in signs please explain more
Log in to reply
No it doesn't. Please show your work and I'll explain where you're wrong
Used exactly the same approach nice problem.but i was thinking that if we want to find complex roots then how will we proceed?
Log in to reply
I guess we would have to factor it somehow. I haven't studied complex numbers in detail yet.
Log in to reply
i have tried to factorise its getting messy still thinking on it
Log in to reply
@Prakhar Bindal – Maybe it cannot be factorised by hand.
The roots might be very messy.
Yes, I agree. The first step will be to factor using know identities. Then finding three complex roots will be enough as complex roots in polynomial with real coefficients do appears in pair. The root and its conjugate.
Why are all the polynomials always positive?
Log in to reply
I have posted the explanation.
A polynomial with complex roots will not cut the x axis. So it will either be above the x axis o below.
All of them are cyclotomic polynomials.
Brilliant Answer Rohit. Good Job. I also stayed inspired, and so i wrote a solution of mine. Greetings.
Log in to reply
Thank ! I hope you found the problem interesting.
When you say,
x 2 n + ⋯ + x + 1 has no real root, then
x 2 n + ⋯ + x + 1 can be > 0 OR < 0
Then how do you say that it's > 0 ?
Log in to reply
x < 0 ⇒ x 2 n + 1 < 0 < 1 ⇔ x 2 n + 1 − 1 < − 1 < 0 and x − 1 < − 1 < 0
→ x 2 n + ⋯ + x + 1 = x − 1 x 2 n + 1 − 1 > 0
The case x ≥ 0 is obvious.
Log in to reply
Yes! I'm clear. Thanks. Great explanation.
If x is positive , then the polynomial would be positive for sure. Since it does not cross the x axis, it must always be positive.
Log in to reply
You say IF x > 0 ⇒ f ( x ) > 0 . But that does not(if I'm not wrong) imply that if x < 0 , f ( x ) > 0 . Cleres Cupertino explains that too. Thanks!
Hello. Thanks for sharing this answer with everybody :)
I was thinking about trying to generalise the case to x^n +x^n-1 + ... + x + 1 = 0 in general and proving that it would have no real roots. I applied the same arguments using the Descartes' Rule of Signs and it seems to work. But when I plot x^3 + x^2 + x + 1 in the graphic calculator, the graph has a real root, x = -1.
I'm not sure how to reconcile these? I'm pretty sure there was something wrong in my reasoning?
Log in to reply
The polynomial then becomes x 4 − 1 = 0 ( x 2 + 1 ) ( x + 1 ) ( x − 1 ) = 0 x 3 + x 2 + x + 1 = 0 , x − 1 = 0 The problem is, two cases that occur, n is odd or even.
Log in to reply
oh!! I see. Ok i understand now. I didn't consider the cases for when n is odd and when n is even.
Thanks for replying :)
It was pretty interesting learn about the Descartes´ Rule of Signs. A very useful tool to predict the existence of real roots of a polynomial.
However, in this particular case, reading the comments on facebook, i do not found a conclusive argument to the inexistence of real roots.
In the better case, the equation does not have positive roots or there are 6, 4, 2 or none negative real roots. What helps, but not concludes the question.
I propose the following, for all x, positives, negatives and for x = 0, for all x real:
x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 = ( x 2 + x ) . ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) + 3
As,
− 1 / 4 ⩽ ( x 2 + x ) ⇒ − 1 < − 1 / 4 ⩽ ( x 2 + x ) ⇒ − 1 < ( x 2 + x )
And,
3 ⩽ ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) ⇒ 0 < 3 ⩽ ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) ⇒ 0 < ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 )
Thus,
− 1 < ( x 2 + x ) . ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 )
Therefore,
− 1 + 3 < ( x 2 + x ) . ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) + 3 = x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3
Finally, for all x real,
x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 > 2
⟺
x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 > 0
What means that there is no real roots for the polynomial
x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3
I hope this helps. And I would be very happy to have any reply.
I've made this answer before reading Rohit Kumar. So, in this very opportunity, i also wanna greet him for the Brilliant answer that he made.
is the 4th step correct?
In this case, I reasoned that the potential root must be negative or zero, as otherwise P(r)=\=0(or P(r) is not equal to 0, or just that it won't work). -1 cancles out all the x terms but the +3 isn't helpful, making the result 3. 0 doesn't work for the same reason. And without trying, I know -2 won't work because while -2^6=64, -2^5=32, meaning they will not cancel out well enough.-3,-4,-5 and so on will only get worse, as this yields bigger differences between powers. From this, it makes it pretty clear that such a root is impossible.
asked for real roots,not integral
Log in to reply
It still works. Besides, how would -1.1 work? The explanation above makes it pretty clear it won't, for me anyway. Reread it and use your intuition. The powers are too big to be 'fixed up' with the +3.
Problem Loading...
Note Loading...
Set Loading...
Lemma: The polynomial x 2 n + . . . + x + 1 has no real roots.
Proof: Consider the equation x 2 n + 1 − 1 = 0 . This polynomial has only one root, namely x = 1 , but it also factors into ( x − 1 ) ( x 2 n + x 2 n − 1 + . . . + x + 1 ) . Because the factor of x − 1 is present, it accounts for the lone root of x = 1 , meaning the other factor ( x 2 n + x 2 n − 1 + . . . + x + 1 ) has no real roots.
Proceeding the with problem at hand now, we see that the given polynomial above splits additively into
( x 6 + x 5 + x 4 + x 3 + x 2 + x + 1 ) + ( x 4 + x 3 + x 2 + x + 1 ) + ( x 2 + x + 1 ) .
Each of these polynomials are always greater than zero, so their sum is also always greater than zero. Hence, there are no real roots.