As complicated as 321

Algebra Level 3

x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 \large x^6 + x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 3x^2 + 3x + 3

How many real roots does the polynomial above have?

1 6 3 0 4 2

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3 solutions

Rohit Kumar
Jun 25, 2015

Lemma: The polynomial x 2 n + . . . + x + 1 x^{2n} + ... + x + 1 has no real roots.

Proof: Consider the equation x 2 n + 1 1 = 0 x^{2n + 1} - 1 = 0 . This polynomial has only one root, namely x = 1 x = 1 , but it also factors into ( x 1 ) ( x 2 n + x 2 n 1 + . . . + x + 1 ) (x-1)(x^{2n} + x^{2n-1} + ... + x +1) . Because the factor of x 1 x - 1 is present, it accounts for the lone root of x = 1 x = 1 , meaning the other factor ( x 2 n + x 2 n 1 + . . . + x + 1 ) (x^{2n} + x^{2n-1} + ... + x +1) has no real roots.

Proceeding the with problem at hand now, we see that the given polynomial above splits additively into

( x 6 + x 5 + x 4 + x 3 + x 2 + x + 1 ) + ( x 4 + x 3 + x 2 + x + 1 ) + ( x 2 + x + 1 ) . (x^6 + x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x + 1) + (x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x + 1) +(x^2 + x + 1).

Each of these polynomials are always greater than zero, so their sum is also always greater than zero. Hence, there are no real roots.

Moderator note:

For completeness, can you explain why these polynomials are strictly positive?

You don't need to use derivatives. A simple use of Descartes Rule of Sign should handle it. Let f ( x ) = x 2 n + 1 1 f(x) = x^{2n+1} - 1 , then f ( x ) f(x) has one change in sign and f ( x ) f(-x) has no change in sign. So f ( x ) f(x) has one real root only.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 11 months ago

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but f(-x) has change in signs please explain more

mohamed eshibae - 4 years, 8 months ago

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No it doesn't. Please show your work and I'll explain where you're wrong

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 8 months ago

Used exactly the same approach nice problem.but i was thinking that if we want to find complex roots then how will we proceed?

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 11 months ago

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I guess we would have to factor it somehow. I haven't studied complex numbers in detail yet.

Rohit Kumar - 5 years, 11 months ago

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i have tried to factorise its getting messy still thinking on it

Prakhar Bindal - 5 years, 11 months ago

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@Prakhar Bindal Maybe it cannot be factorised by hand.

The roots might be very messy.

Rohit Kumar - 5 years, 11 months ago

Yes, I agree. The first step will be to factor using know identities. Then finding three complex roots will be enough as complex roots in polynomial with real coefficients do appears in pair. The root and its conjugate.

Pedro Antonio Marrone Gaudiano - 5 years, 11 months ago

Why are all the polynomials always positive?

Shashank Rammoorthy - 5 years, 11 months ago

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I have posted the explanation.

Rohit Kumar - 5 years, 11 months ago

A polynomial with complex roots will not cut the x axis. So it will either be above the x axis o below.

Pedro Antonio Marrone Gaudiano - 5 years, 11 months ago

All of them are cyclotomic polynomials.

Pedro Antonio Marrone Gaudiano - 5 years, 11 months ago

Brilliant Answer Rohit. Good Job. I also stayed inspired, and so i wrote a solution of mine. Greetings.

Cleres Cupertino - 5 years, 11 months ago

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Thank ! I hope you found the problem interesting.

Rohit Kumar - 5 years, 11 months ago

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Interesting for Sure!!!

Cleres Cupertino - 5 years, 11 months ago

When you say,

x 2 n + + x + 1 x^{2n} + \cdots + x + 1 has no real root, then

x 2 n + + x + 1 can be > 0 OR < 0 x^{2n} + \cdots + x + 1 \text{ can be } > 0\text{ OR } < 0

Then how do you say that it's > 0 > 0 ?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 9 months ago

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x < 0 x 2 n + 1 < 0 < 1 x 2 n + 1 1 < 1 < 0 x < 0 \Rightarrow x^{2n+1} <0<1 \Leftrightarrow x^{2n+1} - 1<-1< 0 and x 1 < 1 < 0 x-1<-1<0

x 2 n + + x + 1 = x 2 n + 1 1 x 1 > 0 \rightarrow x^{2n}+ \cdots +x+1=\frac{x^{2n+1}-1}{x-1}>0

The case x 0 x \geq 0 is obvious.

Cleres Cupertino - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Yes! I'm clear. Thanks. Great explanation.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 9 months ago

If x is positive , then the polynomial would be positive for sure. Since it does not cross the x axis, it must always be positive.

Rohit Kumar - 5 years, 9 months ago

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You say IF x > 0 f ( x ) > 0 x>0 \Rightarrow f(x) > 0 . But that does not(if I'm not wrong) imply that if x < 0 x<0 , f ( x ) > 0 f(x) > 0 . Cleres Cupertino explains that too. Thanks!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 9 months ago

Hello. Thanks for sharing this answer with everybody :)

I was thinking about trying to generalise the case to x^n +x^n-1 + ... + x + 1 = 0 in general and proving that it would have no real roots. I applied the same arguments using the Descartes' Rule of Signs and it seems to work. But when I plot x^3 + x^2 + x + 1 in the graphic calculator, the graph has a real root, x = -1.

I'm not sure how to reconcile these? I'm pretty sure there was something wrong in my reasoning?

Brian Yen - 3 years, 11 months ago

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The polynomial then becomes x 4 1 = 0 ( x 2 + 1 ) ( x + 1 ) ( x 1 ) = 0 x 3 + x 2 + x + 1 = 0 , x 1 = 0 x^4-1=0\\\left(x^2+1\right)(x+1)(x-1)=0\\x^3+x^2+x+1=0,~x-1=0 The problem is, two cases that occur, n n is odd or even.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 3 years, 11 months ago

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oh!! I see. Ok i understand now. I didn't consider the cases for when n is odd and when n is even.

Thanks for replying :)

Brian Yen - 3 years, 11 months ago

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@Brian Yen You are welcome :-)

Kishore S. Shenoy - 3 years, 11 months ago
Cleres Cupertino
Jul 7, 2015

It was pretty interesting learn about the Descartes´ Rule of Signs. A very useful tool to predict the existence of real roots of a polynomial.

However, in this particular case, reading the comments on facebook, i do not found a conclusive argument to the inexistence of real roots.

In the better case, the equation does not have positive roots or there are 6, 4, 2 or none negative real roots. What helps, but not concludes the question.

I propose the following, for all x, positives, negatives and for x = 0, for all x real:

x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 = ( x 2 + x ) . ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) + 3 \small x^6 + x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 3x^2 + 3x + 3 = (x^2+x).((x^2+1)^2+2) + 3

As,

1 / 4 ( x 2 + x ) 1 < 1 / 4 ( x 2 + x ) 1 < ( x 2 + x ) \small -1/4 \leqslant (x^2+x) \Rightarrow -1 < -1/4 \leqslant (x^2+x) \Rightarrow -1 < (x^2+x)

And,

3 ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) 0 < 3 ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) 0 < ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) \small 3 \leqslant ((x^2+1)^2+2) \Rightarrow 0 < 3 \leqslant ((x^2+1)^2+2) \Rightarrow 0 < ((x^2+1)^2+2)

Thus,

1 < ( x 2 + x ) . ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) \ -1 < (x^2+x).((x^2+1)^2+2)

Therefore,

1 + 3 < ( x 2 + x ) . ( ( x 2 + 1 ) 2 + 2 ) + 3 = x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 \small -1 + 3 < (x^2+x).((x^2+1)^2+2) + 3 = x^6 + x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 3x^2 + 3x + 3

Finally, for all x real,

x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 > 2 \large x^6 + x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 3x^2 + 3x + 3 > 2

\large \Longleftrightarrow

x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 > 0 \large x^6 + x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 3x^2 + 3x + 3 > 0

What means that there is no real roots for the polynomial

x 6 + x 5 + 2 x 4 + 2 x 3 + 3 x 2 + 3 x + 3 \large x^6 + x^5 + 2x^4 + 2x^3 + 3x^2 + 3x + 3

I hope this helps. And I would be very happy to have any reply.

I've made this answer before reading Rohit Kumar. So, in this very opportunity, i also wanna greet him for the Brilliant answer that he made.

is the 4th step correct?

Rohit Mishra - 2 years, 8 months ago
Zoe Codrington
Sep 16, 2018

In this case, I reasoned that the potential root must be negative or zero, as otherwise P(r)=\=0(or P(r) is not equal to 0, or just that it won't work). -1 cancles out all the x terms but the +3 isn't helpful, making the result 3. 0 doesn't work for the same reason. And without trying, I know -2 won't work because while -2^6=64, -2^5=32, meaning they will not cancel out well enough.-3,-4,-5 and so on will only get worse, as this yields bigger differences between powers. From this, it makes it pretty clear that such a root is impossible.

asked for real roots,not integral

Rohit Mishra - 2 years, 8 months ago

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It still works. Besides, how would -1.1 work? The explanation above makes it pretty clear it won't, for me anyway. Reread it and use your intuition. The powers are too big to be 'fixed up' with the +3.

Zoe Codrington - 2 years, 8 months ago

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