Inspired by Satyajit Mohanty, but this is one is a lot easier!

Algebra Level 4

Let P ( x ) P(x) be a polynomial such that ( x + 1 ) P ( x 1 ) = ( x 1 ) P ( x ) (x+1)P(x-1)=(x-1)P(x) for all real values of x x . Determine the maximum possible degree of P ( x ) P(x) .


Inspiration .

5 2 There is no maximum value 3 4

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3 solutions

Arturo Presa
Aug 22, 2015

From the equation ( x + 1 ) P ( x 1 ) = ( x 1 ) P ( x ) ( ) , (x+1)P(x-1)=(x-1)P(x)\:\:\:(*), we obtain that 0, and -1 are roots of P ( x ) P(x) . Therefore, P ( x ) = x ( x + 1 ) Q ( x ) P(x)=x(x+1)Q(x) where Q ( x ) Q(x) is a polynomial. By substituting this expression for P ( x ) P(x) into ( ) ( * ) we obtain the equation ( x + 1 ) ( x 1 ) x Q ( x 1 ) = ( x 1 ) x ( x + 1 ) Q ( x ) . (x+1)(x-1)x Q(x-1)=(x-1)x(x+1)Q(x). Dividing both sides by ( x + 1 ) ( x 1 ) x (x+1)(x-1)x we get that Q ( x 1 ) = Q ( x ) Q(x-1)=Q(x) . The latter implies that Q ( x ) = Q ( x + n ) Q(x)=Q(x+n) for all real values of x and any integer n n . Then Q ( x ) Q(x) must be a constant polynomial. Indeed, if Q ( x ) Q(x) were not constant then for an arbitrary x x , Q ( x ) = lim n Q ( x + n ) = ± , Q(x)= \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty}Q(x+n)=\pm \infty, that would be a contradiction. Assuming that Q ( x ) Q(x) is the constant c c we obtain that P ( x ) = c x ( x + 1 ) P(x)= c x(x+1) and therefore the maximum possible degree of P ( x ) P(x) would be 2.

Probably there are other solutions.

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

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As in ???????????????????

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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I would like to say as in your problem, but I need to learn how to insert a link. I don't know yet. Can you help me with that?

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Arturo Presa Do this:

[Link Name] (Link Address)

without spaces between the right square bracket and the left parenthesis.


For example:

[Problem Name] (https://brilliant.org/problems/based-on-a-problem-of-satyajitmohanty-but-this-is/)

without that space would look like

Problem Name

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Satyajit Mohanty Thank you sir, I really appreciate.

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Arturo Presa Now, with the help of @Satyajit Mohanty I can be more precise. There is another solution of this problem expressing the given equation in the form P ( x ) P ( x 1 ) = x + 1 x 1 . \frac{P(x)}{P(x-1)}=\frac{x+1}{x-1}. Use that to get an expression for P ( n ) P(n) in terms of some particular values of P ( x ) P(x) and in terms of the positive integer n n . That expression should help you to get the largest possible degree of the polynomial. See the solutions given to the Inspiration Problem. Can somebody do it? Another hint: Telescoping

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Arturo Presa We can think of that quotient p ( x ) p ( x 1 ) = x + 1 x 1 \frac{p(x)}{p(x-1)} = \frac{x+1}{x-1} as the expression left after the common roots of p ( x ) p(x) p ( x 1 ) p(x-1) get cancelled ... After inspection we see that the number of such common root is at most 1(observe the fact that they are shifted polynomials) Hence they are degree two polynomials.

Abhinav Raichur - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Abhinav Raichur I think I understand what you are saying and this would be another approach also.

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

Really very elegant,sir!

Adarsh Kumar - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Thank you, @AdarshKumar!

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Arturo Presa thank you for the beautiful problem sir! {and solution too :)} ... BTW I used a geometrical approach by shifting the graphs.

Abhinav Raichur - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Thank you Abhinav Raichur !

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

Awesome! But this problem being a lot easier is of Level 5, and the inspiration problem is of Level 4 :D

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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I was asking myself the same question and checked again an noticed that they changed your problem to level 5 now!

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Sorry, but I checked once more time and it is still level 4, but don't worry this is going to change. I think they need more data. When I posted my problem based on yours I put level 3, and the system or the staff changed it to level 5. I don't how it works actually.

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

They haven't changed. It's probably because your problem has got more views than mine, as it became popular.

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Satyajit Mohanty Yes, probably this is the reason. But your problem is fantastic, really really challenging. I liked it a lot!

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Satyajit Mohanty may I ask you something, Do you know any books that can help me with this stuff I mean that can enable to solve lvl 5 problems just like you Bhai. Thanks.

Maybe books that you use.

Syed Baqir - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Syed Baqir You might want to investigate what books are good for your level of preparation. Look at books from the website "Art of Problem Solving" . There are also some classic books like the ones of George Polya or Arthur Engel which are devoted just to problem solving. But in my opinion, this website, brilliang.org has many resources that you can use. Read the wikis and take the quizzes that they offer. Be patient and start with level 2 or 3. If you can't solve a problem after you have tried for a long time, then see the solution. All this is going to help.

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Syed Baqir @Syed Baqir Just to share my experience here at brilliant, I am not really one of those bright people around here, But manage to solve a modest percentage of level 5 problems.The reason, like you have already pointed out, is the touch of some good books {and i really do not know how to define one :) } BUT The main thing here is to try and learn the maximum amount from every problem you come across {you solve it or not, try to generalize it later} ... Try not to run away from problems by their mere gargantuan look but have patience and persevere.... BTW You will not know when you finally solve a level 5 problem, because it is going to feel easy :p .... Happy solving :)

Abhinav Raichur - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Syed Baqir @Syed Baqir I totally agree with @Arturo Presa . I used to follow Arthur Engel. It's a fantastic book for Olympiad aspirants. By the way, you're from Cyprus right. So how do you know Indian language words like "Bhai" ?? :/

Satyajit Mohanty - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Satyajit Mohanty I know Bhai from last discussion where you pointed that word.

Syed Baqir - 5 years, 9 months ago
Gari Chua
Aug 23, 2015

By substituting x = 0 x=0 and x = 1 x= 1 to the equation, we obtain P ( 0 ) = P ( 1 ) = 0 P(0) = P(-1) = 0 , so P(x) has degree at least 2. Thus, we have P ( x ) = x ( x + 1 ) A ( x ) P(x) = x(x+1)A(x) for some polynomial A ( x ) A(x) . Substituting this to the equation, we get ( x + 1 ) ( x 1 ) ( x ) A ( x 1 ) = ( x 1 ) ( x ) ( x + 1 ) A ( x ) (x+1)(x-1)(x)A(x-1) = (x-1)(x)(x+1)A(x) . This implies that A ( x 1 ) = A ( x ) A(x-1) = A(x) for all real numbers x x . THis means that A ( x ) A(x) is constant, so the maximum degree of P P is 2.

Nice! Very concise!

Arturo Presa - 5 years, 9 months ago
Hadia Qadir
Sep 2, 2015

Rewrite as P(x)/P(x-1)=(x+1)/(x-1). There will be common roots cancelled and by inspection, the maximum degree of P(x) must be 2

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