Box on Two Surfaces

A rectangular box of length 2 3 m \frac{2}{3} \text{m} is initially traveling at 2 m/s , 2 \text{ m/s}, with its entire length over the smooth (perfectly frictionless) blue surface (shown above). The box gradually moves onto a rough surface (gray) and stops the instant that its entire length is positioned within the rough region.

Determine the coefficient of kinetic friction.


Details and Assumptions:

  • g = 10 m/s 2 . g = 10\text{ m/s}^2.
  • The pressure at the bottom of the box is always uniform over its area.


The answer is 0.6.

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10 solutions

Md Zuhair
Oct 11, 2017

Please let me know if I am correct or not.

Firstly the say the distance which the mass traveled be x m x m on the rough part x < 2 3 x<\dfrac{2}{3} .

Then we can say that mass which is on the rough part= M x L \dfrac{Mx}{L} .

Now Friction acting on this part be f x = M x g μ L f_{x}=\dfrac{Mxg\mu}{L} .

By W-E Theorem,

0 L M x g μ L . d x = 1 m v 2 2 \displaystyle{\int^{L}_{0} \dfrac{Mxg\mu}{L} .dx = \dfrac{1 mv^2}{2}}

Solving this we get

μ = 3 5 0.6 \mu = \dfrac{3}{5} \implies \boxed{0.6}

I got it wrong the first go , i think the simplest solution is the K.E of the block is equal to the work done, as per that 1/2 mv * v =Friction force * distance moved, i forgot this is a block and not a point object , but since its symmetrical we know the COM is at centre, so the COM travels half the block length. friction force=coeff * Normal force =coeff * mg ,
If block length is L ,for COM of sys ,1/2mv * v=K * mg * L/2 or K=v * v/gl Plugging values v=2, g=10 and l=2/3 K=.6

Sam Mni - 3 years, 7 months ago

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COM takes also a distance L, the key is the linearly increasing friction force, IMHO. (One can get the value 0.6 in various way, but not all of them belong to this problem... ;-) )

Zsolt Szabó - 3 years, 7 months ago

That's how I did it

Steven Chase - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Same here. Could we know a kinematic approach?

Swapnil Das - 3 years, 7 months ago

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I think it could be analyzed in terms of force and acceleration too.

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Steven Chase Hmmm... would you mind sharing it?

Md Zuhair - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Md Zuhair Sure, I'll post it later today

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Steven Chase Yeah! Thanks. Sir would you mind if I ask you something? Are you a Physicist? Or you are graduating in Physics? orPhd or Masters?

Md Zuhair - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Md Zuhair The other solution is up now. I'm flattered that you think I could be a physicist. However, I'm actually an engineer.

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Steven Chase Oh nice. You are of which branch? Mechanical, Electrical ,etc?

Md Zuhair - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Md Zuhair Electrical

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Steven Chase Haha... but you are quite tough at Mechanics too :)...

Md Zuhair - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Md Zuhair Yeah, it's all fun

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

3,1,4,1,5,1...n find general sentence for it. plz answer me

mahla salarmohammadi - 3 years, 7 months ago

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http://www.piday.org/million/

Rohan Joshi - 5 months, 1 week ago

Nice and straightforward solution! The problem can also be approached using kinematics as shown by Steven below but you can avoid using calculus by realizing that resistance force is linearly increasing with x that represents length of the block on rough surface. Thus, you can calculate an average force acting on the block (at time 0, F is 0, at time when block comes to a stop it is u m g) as (0 + umg)/2=umg/2. Consequently, the average deceleration is umg/2, dependence of velocity on time is V=Vo - (umg/2) t and distance traveled is d=1/2 (umg/2) t^2. Plugging in initial and final velocity as well as distance traveled results in 0=2 - (umg/2) t and 2/3=1/2 umg/2) t^2. Substituting for time t gives final expresion for u=12/2g=0.6

Mirek Baudys - 3 years, 7 months ago

This assumes the CoF over the blue is zero. That was never stated. Nor was position Xo of the block when Vo was 2 m/s. Assuming the CoF over the blue was zero makes the Xo irrelevant. But that's an assumption.

cal Kruse - 3 years, 7 months ago

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In these sort of puzzles the term 'smooth' means that the friction is to be taken as zero, which it also clearly states in this question.

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 7 months ago

Did exactly the same way :)

Harsh Poonia - 2 years, 3 months ago
Steven Chase
Oct 23, 2017

The energy approach is the most straightforward (see @Md Zuhair ), but here is the diff eq way as well. Say x x is the distance onto the rough surface. L L is the box length and m m is the box mass.

Mass of box on rough surface:

m r = m L x m_r = \frac{m}{L} x

Friction force:

F = μ m r g = μ m g L x F = \mu m_r g = \frac{\mu m g}{L} x

Newton's 2nd Law:

μ m g L x = m x ¨ x ¨ = μ g L x -\frac{\mu m g}{L} x = m \ddot{x} \\ \ddot{x} = -\frac{\mu g}{L} x

This obviously corresponds to simple harmonic motion of the following form (the trick, though, is that these equations only hold until the block stops):

x = A c o s ( μ g L t ) + B s i n ( μ g L t ) x ˙ = A μ g L s i n ( μ g L t ) + B μ g L c o s ( μ g L t ) x = A \, cos\Big(\sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} t \Big) + B \, sin\Big(\sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} t \Big) \\ \dot{x} = -A \sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} \, sin\Big(\sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} t \Big) + B \sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} \, cos\Big(\sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} t \Big)

Apply initial conditions ( x 0 = 0 , x ˙ 0 = v 0 x_0 = 0, \hspace{0.5 cm} \dot{x}_0 = v_0 ):

A = 0 B = v 0 L μ g A = 0 \\ B = v_0 \sqrt{\frac{L}{\mu g}}

Revising the expressions:

x = v 0 L μ g s i n ( μ g L t ) x ˙ = v 0 c o s ( μ g L t ) x = v_0 \sqrt{\frac{L}{\mu g}} \, sin\Big(\sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} t \Big) \\ \dot{x} = v_0 \, cos\Big(\sqrt{\frac{\mu g}{L}} t \Big)

Eventually, the velocity is zero when the cosine function becomes zero. At this point, the sine function is 1 and the distance traveled is L L :

L = v 0 L μ g L 2 = v 0 2 L μ g μ = v 0 2 L g L = v_0 \sqrt{\frac{L}{\mu g}} \\ L^2 = \frac{ v_0^2 L}{\mu g} \\ \mu = \frac{v_0^2}{Lg}

Plugging in numbers gives μ = 3 5 \mu = \frac{3}{5}

Beautiful! (+1)

Swapnil Das - 3 years, 7 months ago

Whilst the energy approach is much simpler. The differential equation approach lets you know that the deceleration takes place in π 6 s \frac {\pi} {6} s

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 7 months ago

That's pretty impressive.

Atif Ali - 3 years, 7 months ago

I started like this bit refused to believe it would be a sinusoidal, so the equation is not valid after a certain t.

Guillermo Zamudio - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Indeed, I was surprised by the sinusoidal nature of the equations as well.

Steven Chase - 3 years, 5 months ago

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I also was surprised by the relative simplicity of the outcome. Given the discussion that has arisen from the correct answer resulting from the incorrect analysis (by one or two) of constant deceleration, I wondered if you might re-post this with different data. Perhaps with the block coming to rest after it has travelled 0.5m?

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 5 months ago

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@Ed Sirett Yeah, that's a good suggestion too. Is this just a numerical fluke, or an even deeper sort of fluke? If you'd like, you could post that one.

Steven Chase - 3 years, 5 months ago

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@Steven Chase Yes you're right, it is a deeper fluke, the simplistic analysis is correct for the special case of the block coming to rest at exactly the point when has just moved completely onto the rough surface.

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 5 months ago
Jim Parsons
Oct 27, 2017

I think that we can do it by centre of mass concept. Centre of mass moves L/2= 1/3m Then use V^2-u^2=2as We get a=-6 It is equal to g*coeff of friction So coeff of friction= 0.6

You do indeed get the right general expression for the friction coefficient using this approach. However, the equations used assume constant acceleration, which is not the case here. So my question is: is there some deep reason why this works, or is it just a lucky accident?

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

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It is not a coincidence, friction does not depend on the contact measure (area/lenght)

Eduardo Gomes Bonilha Gonçalves - 3 years, 7 months ago

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The normal force supplied by the rough surface varies over time. Therefore, so does the friction force. Right?

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Steven Chase The question explicitly states the pressure is uniform over the bottom of the box, ergo the normal force over the rough surface linearly increases as the block move off the smooth and onto the rough.

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 7 months ago

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@Ed Sirett I agree. I'm trying to convince the doubters.

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago

Only coincidentally, because the deceleration is a linear function w.r.t to the distance travelled. So that the average deceleration is half the maximum. If the box was not uniform in its mass distribution then the centre of mass approach would not hold.

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 7 months ago

I do not agree about the center of mass, to me it's a coincidence.

Arian Attanazo - 3 years, 7 months ago

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No, he is right. I did the same method. Acceleration is constant because the friction force is constant. The friction force only depends on the normal force, which is constant, and the coefficient of friction, which is also constant. The amount of contact area between two surfaces doesn't affect frictional force

David Weisberg - 3 years, 7 months ago

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Hi David, I see you are only 13 years. You are tackling a puzzle that would normally be considered a "senior high school" level problem (or beyond?) I must therefore compliment you on your level of understanding and ambition. But I believe you are wrong, the frictional force is depending on what proportion of the weight of the moving block is being supported by the which of the two surfaces at any particular instant. You can get the right answer to this problem because the average friction linearly increases (with respect to distance) as the block moves onto the rough surface. Whilst you get the right answer over the whole length of the block this is actually a coincidence. The position of the block, velocity and accel are functions of sin(time), cos(time) and -sin(time) respectively. All of them are quarter wave curves. The energy dissipation is a half wave function. If the block did not come to rest at the point where it just arrived on the rough surface the coincidence would break down. I hope this makes the matter clearer. And I've used no formulae which should help Earthh LaVasseur.

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 7 months ago

I think he is correct and indeed he did it with very few time and amazing concept,Center of mass can be equivalent to the mass of rod and if it's area is uniformly distributed the center of mass is at it's geometric center

Bhavan Bhatt - 3 years, 7 months ago

The variation is linear hence I don't think you need to integrate take the average deceleration it is pretty straight..

Ganesh Hampapura - 2 years, 5 months ago

I'm new to this and though I'm not familiar with mathematical signs, I was able to understand enough to fill in and understand the formula. So thank you and honestly you have an amazing mind to take something complicated and make it simple, true mark of an intellectual.

Earthh LaVassuer - 3 years, 7 months ago

Considering conservation of energy. The initial kinetic energy E k E_k when the box in on the smooth surface is totally consumed as work done against friction W W on the rough surface.

Now, let

  • μ \mu -- the coefficient of kinetic friction between the box and the rough surface
  • m kg m \text{ kg} -- the mass of the box
  • σ kg/m \sigma \text{ kg/m} -- the density per length of the box; then 2 3 σ = m \dfrac 23 \sigma = m
  • v = 2 m/s v = 2 \text{ m/s} -- the velocity of the box on the smooth surface
  • s m s \text{ m} -- the displacement of the box on the rough surface

Then we have:

W = E k 0 2 3 μ σ g s d s = 1 2 m v 2 μ σ g s 2 2 0 2 3 = 1 2 m v 2 2 9 μ σ g = 1 2 m v 2 Since 2 3 σ 1 3 μ g = 1 2 v 2 μ = 3 v 2 2 g = 3 × 2 2 2 × 10 = 0.6 \begin{aligned} W & = E_k \\ \int_0^\frac 23 \mu \sigma g s \ ds & = \frac 12 m v^2 \\ \frac {\mu \sigma g s^2}2 \ \bigg|_0^\frac 23 & = \frac 12 m v^2 \\ \frac 29 \mu \sigma g & = \frac 12 m v^2 & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Since }\frac 23 \sigma \\ \frac 13 \mu g & = \frac 12 v^2 \\ \implies \mu & = \frac {3v^2}{2g} = \frac {3 \times 2^2}{2 \times 10} = \boxed{0.6} \end{aligned}

Zyberg Nee
Oct 31, 2017

Lets consider the Energy transfers that happen on the horizontal axis.

At the beginning the box has only kinetic energy E k = m v 2 2 E_{k} = \frac{mv^2}{2} .

At the end the box stopped due to the force of friction, so we know that it has no energy left. That is, the box did some work. That work is A = F f d = m g μ d A = F_{f} d = mg \mu d , where d d is the distance that the center of the mass of the box had traveled on the rough surface. Since the problem didn't state otherwise, we assume that the center of the mass of the solid rectangular box will be at the center. Hence d = 2 3 × 1 2 = 1 3 d = \frac{2}{3} \times \frac{1}{2} = \frac{1}{3} meters.

Writting the equality (Energy at the beginning equal to the work at the end), we get: m v 2 2 = m g μ d \frac{mv^2}{2} = mg \mu d --> m v 2 2 m g d = μ \frac{mv^2}{2mgd} = \mu --> μ = v 2 2 g d \mu = \frac{v^2}{2gd}

Plugging in the numbers: μ = 0.6 \mu = 0.6

My solution, exactly.

Robert Gallenberger - 3 years, 7 months ago

After travelling 2/3 m the rectangular box stops. Also the velocity is given, so you can find out the time taken by the box to come to rest. Now we know, rate of change in momentum = applied force , which gives us the equation, (MV-0)/t = uMg , where M= Mass of the box, V= Initial velocity, t= time taken by the box ,to come to rest u= coefficient of kinetic friction , and g= 10 m/s^2. Now by plugging in the values you can find out u.

Arjen Vreugdenhil
Oct 30, 2017

Let L L be the length of the block, and x x the length that is currently on the rough surface.

Then the friction force is F = μ x L F N = μ m g L x . F = -\mu \frac x L F_N = -\frac{\mu m g}L x. As the block slides a distance d x dx , the work done is d W = F d x = μ m g L x d x . dW = F\:dx = -\frac{\mu m g} L x\:dx. The total work done by friction is W = 0 L F d x = μ m g L 0 L x d x = 1 2 μ m g L . W = \int_0^L F\:dx = -\frac{\mu m g} L \int_0^L x\:dx = -\tfrac12 \mu m g L. This is equal to the loss in KE, so that 1 2 m v 0 2 = 1 2 μ m g L ; \tfrac12 m v_0^2 = \tfrac12 \mu m g L; μ = v 0 2 g L = 2 2 10 2 3 = 0.6 . \mu = \frac{v_0^2}{g L} = \frac{2^2}{10\cdot \tfrac23} = \boxed{0.6}.

Grant Bulaong
Oct 31, 2017

Let x x be the length of the surface of the block that touches the rough surface. The deceleration a a can be written as a function of x x . a = g k x ( 2 3 ) 1 = 15 k x a= -gkx(\tfrac{2}{3})^{-1}=-15kx In the problem, x x varies uniformly from 0 0 to 2 3 \tfrac{2}{3} .

Recall the kinematic equation: v f 2 = v 1 2 + 2 a d v_f^2=v_1^2+2ad . In this case, d d is the differential unit for length equivalent to d x dx . Plugging in our results and the given values, we must have 0 = 4 + 2 0 2 3 15 k x d x 0=4+2\displaystyle{\int^{\tfrac{2}{3}}_{0}-15kx \,dx} . This yields k = 3 5 k=\tfrac{3}{5} .

Given that the acceleration is not constant, how do you justify the use of kinematic equations?

Steven Chase - 3 years, 7 months ago
Naren Bhandari
Oct 30, 2017

Initially the rectangular box is moving over smooth where friction is assumed to be zero. So in that case there exist no friction force on it. When the box reach rough part abruptly whole length doesn't come in contact with it only small x x portion of 2 3 \frac{2}{3} of box over it. Since frictional force is directly proportional to the normal reaction as f = μ m g f = \mu mg and friction on the x x will not be produced by entire mass M M of it rather the mass will be some portion of total mass of box which is in contact with rough surface. Small friction produced on the box is Δ f = μ d m g = μ M L x \Delta f = \mu dm g = \frac{\mu M}{L}x Now total work done by frictional force is obtained by integrating from 0 0 to L L as f w = 0 L μ M g L x d x = μ M g 2 L L 2 = μ M g L 2 \begin{aligned} & f_w =\displaystyle\int_{0}^{L} \frac{ \mu Mg }{L}x\,dx \\& = \frac{\mu Mg}{2L}L^2 \\& = \frac{\mu MgL}{2} \end{aligned} This work done by friction should be equal to change is kinetic energy. μ M g L 2 = 1 2 M v 2 μ = v 2 g L μ = 3 5 c c c c c c c c put L =2/3 and v = 2 \begin{aligned} & \frac{\mu MgL}{2} = \frac{1}{2}Mv^2 \\& \mu= \frac{v^2}{gL}\\& \mu = \frac{3}{5}\phantom{cccccccc}{\color{#3D99F6}\text{put L =2/3 and v = 2} }\end{aligned}

Godknowsall

Michael Artangle - 3 years, 7 months ago

All these answers did not notice that the distance of the box into the rough surface did not matter: friction does not depend on contact area (length).

That being the case, we have constant acceleration, and so, we are able to proceed by using simple mechanics.

v 0 = 2 m s v_0 = 2\frac{m}{s}

v 1 = 0 v_1 = 0

a = 10 μ m s 2 a = -10\mu \frac{m}{s^2}

Δ s = 2 3 m \Delta s = \dfrac{2}{3}m

This because the body is at rest after traveling a distance equal to its length. We finish it off using equations of motion

v 1 2 = v 0 2 + 2 a Δ s v_1^2 = v_0^2 + 2a\Delta s

0 = 4 20 3 μ 0 = 4 - \dfrac{20}{3}\mu

5 μ = 3 5\mu = 3

μ = 3 5 = 0.6 \mu = \dfrac{3}{5} = 0.6

Done.

I am not familiar with the equations of motion you have used, and the previous solutions (which I couldn't follow to be honest) all seemed more complex than necessary (including mass which essentially cancels out anyway). What I do not understand about your solution is how you can assume that acceleration is constant. Why would acceleration not be proportional to the amount of the box that is on the rough surface? At t=0s, a=0m/s^2, and (according to the answer) at t=1/3s, a=-12m/s^2, making the average acceleration = -6 m/s^2.

If the acceleration is constant, then the average velocity during the time in question would be 1 m/s, in which case the box would take 2/3 s to come to rest. If the box takes 2/3 s to come to rest, than the average acceleration is -3 m/s^2, which would make the coefficient of friction 0.3. (This was the answer on my first attempt because I assumed acceleration was constant.)

Lee Wells - 3 years, 7 months ago

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