tan ( x ) = tan − 1 ( x )
Find the smallest integer x satisfying the equation above.
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Wow! Niven's Theorem is so powerful to prove things about trigonometory! Nice solution!
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It helped that I still had Niven's Theorem on my mind after doing the question "Irrational, Existing or What?"
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Actually, I came to know about it that day only, which searching to complete my proof. I did not understand its power at that time. I though it is just another theorem, but it is a good one to prove so many things!
Very Great @David Vreken what should I write now for the proof, LOL as you have already used Niven's theorem. BTW I loved your puns video in youtube and to be honest in the first problem I got the names from your children to see your reaction, don't mind me, consider it as a psychological experiment, I am unpredictable. Now I guess I will write a proof related to high-school trigonometry XD.
@David Vreken - What youtube channel is @Siddharth Chakravarty talking about, please tell me.................
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lmgtfy LOL.....
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Thank you @Páll Márton , but how will you gtfm without the name of the channel?
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@A Former Brilliant Member – The name is David Vreken :)
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Thanks @Páll Márton , I found it
@David Vreken - The PunsCompilation video is pure gold LOL XD
@David Vreken - Your channel deserves more subs, so here's +1 subscribe to you good sir.
@David Vreken the wording has been changed now, so there are more values now. @Yajat Shamji upload a new question, or put a proper wording. Check this
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Since the answer box for this questions did not say "Use 3 significant digits," I assumed that the answer was an integer (and in my solution I did write, "if we assume x must be an integer"), but I do agree that there are other possible non-integer solutions and that the question should probably say "find an integer solution to x " instead of just "find x ."
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It was first written "positive integer", so I reported it, and then it was changed to integer. Then, I asked @Yajat Shamji the proof that it is the only integer, because no solution was posted then with a proof. However, instead of proof, it was changed to "Find x ".
Yes, even I answered 0 when the wording was not changed, but now as he has done it. I am requesting @Yajat Shamji to upload a new problem. Because I think lot of people might have got confused or given wrong answers or viewed the solutions.
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – @Siddharth Chakravarty , I was reading some formulas of Kinematics, and I can understand most of these, but I am unable to solve the questions. You are good in physics as I have seen in your solutions of Daily Challenges. So, can you give some tip? Thanks!
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@Vinayak Srivastava – Yes, I sure can because I loveee physics, just mention me in some discussion note, and ask your particular doubts.
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – Even I like Physics a little, but is there any specific rule for solving questions, or is it just practice?
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@Vinayak Srivastava – The main thing is to understand the questions and only the knowledge of the equations and for what it is used. But even Physics can't take the place of Maths, Maths and Logic always on no.1 for me :D
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – For me, nothing can take place of pure Algebra and Number Theory!
@Vinayak Srivastava – Just math :) Two years ago I was the 2th in the county phisics competition. Only a few points...
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Nice! You seem to be multi-talented, you have got a lot of awards!
BTW The correct solution isn't y=tan(tan(y)) where tan(y)=x?
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I don't understand what you mean.
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@David Vreken wrote that: x = t a n ( t a n ( x ) ) , but: t a n ( x ) = t a n − 1 ( x ) Let's be t a n ( y ) = x : t a n ( t a n ( y ) ) = t a n − 1 ( x ) But t a n ( y ) = x ⟹ t a n − 1 ( x ) = y : t a n ( t a n ( y ) ) = y
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Oh, but the answer will be same since tan ( 0 ) = 0 .
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@Vinayak Srivastava – Only I can't solve trigonometric equations?
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@A Former Brilliant Member – I also couldn't solve most till yesterday, just read a little yesterday and can solve some now(I also don't understand the complexity of this sentence).
@A Former Brilliant Member – I did:
tan ( x ) = tan − 1 ( x )
tan ( tan ( x ) ) = tan ( tan − 1 ( x ) )
tan ( tan ( x ) ) = x
x = tan ( tan ( x ) )
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@David Vreken – Yes, that was self-evident bcoz I just reversed it back to verify, why did you still write the proof? Any problem?
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – No problem, I was just showing a different way.
@David Vreken – Can we simplify that? x = t a n ( x ) ? But from our approaches: x = y ⟹ x = t a n ( x ) Isn't?
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Oh, I didn't see your comment notification neither your comment, LOL! But what approach you used?
@A Former Brilliant Member – How did you get x=y?
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – y=tan(tan(y) and x=tan(tan(x)) have the same roots.
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Ohh. But it can be two different roots :)
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@A Former Brilliant Member – But if x=tan(x), then x=tan(tan(x)) :)
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Did your mind just run through steps of self-realisation? XD
@A Former Brilliant Member – It could but not necessarily. If tan ( x ) = 1 and tan ( y ) = 1 , one possibility is x = y = 4 π , but another possibility is x = 4 π and y = 4 5 π .
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@David Vreken – Yeah :) some text
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@A Former Brilliant Member – What does "some text" mean?
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – If your comment is too short, then you can't send
@David Vreken – Also in the context of this question, if you plot the graph or check the non-integer solutions, x = y .
LaTeX: 2 0
Intelligible Solution: 1 0
Uniqueness: 1 0
Pics: 0
Algorithmic Structure: 3
Animations: 0
Total: 4 3
tan ( x ) = tan − 1 ( x ) x = tan ( tan ( x ) )
According to an extension of Niven's Theorem, the only rational values of tangent are 0 and 1 ± 1 .
When graphed, the only line that exists is the one with x = 0 (As seen in the pictures below)
tan ( 0 ) = tan − 1 ( 0 ) tan ( 1 ) = tan − 1 ( 1 ) tan ( − 1 ) = tan − 1 ( − 1 )
@Yajat Shamji - scores.........
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Sorry! Family issues followed by a (almost) week ban...
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Wow, its been a week, how are you?
Mathathon is almost finished, and all the problems have already been posted........... @Yajat Shamji
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@A Former Brilliant Member – I withdraw then.
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@Yajat Shamji – You still have time till 26th to post solutions, so there's still a chance.............
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Not likely, I have to focus on the BRILLIAthon...
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@Yajat Shamji – isn't it over, after you went offline, everybody stopped commenting here, because we thought it got cancelled like Mathematicians War of Siddharth Chakravarty
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@A Former Brilliant Member – No. It's still on.
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@Yajat Shamji – Ok, looking forward to my score on this problem then :)
Do you have 100's of notifications lol?
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@A Former Brilliant Member – Yes, I do.
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@Yajat Shamji – LOL, take your time going through them LOL
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@A Former Brilliant Member – I just dismissed them lol
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@Yajat Shamji – LOL, I always do that LOL
Hope that you and your family are ok
LaTeX: 2 0
Intelligible Solution: 1 0
Uniqueness: 1 0
Pics: 1
Algorithmic Structure: 3
Animations: 0
Total: 4 4
Awarded 'BRILLIAthon Star' for Problem 2 .
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Thanks, @Yajat Shamji . I've been very eager to see my score, as the Math War got cancelled :) I'm glad you're continuing the BRILLIAthon!
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@A Former Brilliant Member – No problem! Check Problem 1 !
At first glance I saw ‘positive’, and I was like WHAT? So I tried re-writing the formula as tan ( tan ( x ) ) = x , etc. One solution was x = 0 . Then I saw that the wording has changed, and realised the only possibility was that the answer 0 isn’t considered positive and the wording had to be changed, so my proof is tan ( x ) = tan − 1 ( x ) ⇒ tan ( tan ( x ) ) = x , and the only integer solution to this equation is 0 since 0 is a valid solution and the solution to this equation has an irrational period. Since the period is irrational, no matter what integer you multiply it by, the result is irrational.
Yes, the question was wrong, but I reported it and now @Yajat Shamji has changed it! Now it is correct! However, there isn't much clarity about being an integer!
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That is why I reported it for not specifying about the number x, whether it was rational or not @Vinayak Srivastava
LaTeX: 2 0
Intelligible Solution: 1 0
Uniqueness: 0
Pics: 0
Algorithmic Structure: 3
Animations: 0
Total: 3 3
tan ( 0 ) = 0 , tan − 1 ( 0 ) = 0 therefore the answer is 0 . It is debatable whether 0 is positive but in this case it is.
Edit: the wording of the question has been changed so 0 being positive or not can be left aside
You're not in the competition...
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was this not an open community question? sorry i didn't realise
What competition? Who cares if he's not. Why are you gatekeeping him? Just let him submit a solution.
I am curious-when is 0 positive?
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i don't know, there are people who think that it is and those who do not. it can be written as a positive ( + 0 ) or as a negative ( − 0 ). i guess it is down to opinion. as i said, in this case the author believes that 0 is positive and in order to get the question 'right' i will go along with it. besides, i have work to do and debating 0's positiveness isn't my priority at the moment
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I am not arguing, I wish to know where + 0 and − 0 are used, it seems interesting to me!
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@Vinayak Srivastava – you can see it in limits i guess, when evaluating them from different sides
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@James Watson – Ok, I'll see to it some day. Thanks for letting me know!
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@Vinayak Srivastava – yeah, a good example is x → 0 lim x 1 . we can prove that this limit doesn't exist when approaching 0 from the positive side and negative side; since evaluating the limit at + 0 results in ∞ and − 0 results in − ∞ we can conclude that it doesn't exist
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@James Watson – Oh, thank you! Now I think I understand a bit where + 0 and − 0 came.
@James Watson – But ain't this limit going like from the negative side going to a number very close to 0 but not 0, like -0.000...1 where... a lot of zeroes between and same for the positive side. Although the answer is undefined for x=0, but 0 is a neutral number because 0 is nothing, so doing nothing is to be neutral in a logical sense also.
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – what do you mean by doing nothing?
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@James Watson – 0 has neutral parity because adding and subtracting, it does/ affects nothing.
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – ok so what has that got to do with the limit?
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@James Watson – I mean y= undefined when x=0, because `1/0 literally means searching for a number that multiplied by 0 gives 1 which is not possible. However, you can check some arguments on 0^0, you will find them of interest.
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@Siddharth Chakravarty – yes y may be undefined when x=0, but what a limit means is that it when x tends to 0, y tends to ∞ or − ∞ . tends to means approaches
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@James Watson – I know this, I was telling you what y would be at when x=0. Because limit always doesn't approach the expected value like y = |x| where the derivate is not defined at 0 if you use limits from both the sides.
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According to an extension of Niven's theorem , the only rational values of tangent are 0 and ± 1 . Since the equation can be rearranged to x = tan ( tan ( x ) ) (and if we assume x must be an integer), we only need to test these three values, and we find:
Therefore, x = 0 .