A square and a circle have the same perimeter.
Which has a larger area, the square or the circle?
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If s is the length of a side and n the number of sides of a regular polygon, then the perimeter is s n and the area is 4 tan ( π / n ) ( s 2 ) ( n ) .
If we fix the perimeter at 1, then the area is
4 n tan ( π / n ) 1 .
Graphing this gets an increasing function that approaches 4 π 1 ≈ 0 . 0 7 9 6 as n goes to infinity, which is the area of a circle with a circumference of 1.
Along the lines of this question, how do we prove that out of any closed shape with constant perimeter, circle has the largest area?
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The perimeter should be at least less than that of the circle or equal to it. The challenge master note is very helpful here. Thank you.
In mathematics we must be exact. It is not correct to just pick any square and any circle which happen to have the same perimeter nor is it correct to use equality sign between the exact value and rounded value.
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But l did mention that both polygons have same perimeter so we are dealing with a specific case here. Also, we can have a circle and square with same perimeter.
If the perimeter is defined as including the corners of the square then the circle would be larger. If the perimeter is the "sides" of the square then the circle would be smaller. Is this correct?
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No, it is not correct. We have consider the circumference or the perimeter as the measure of the distance around our shape and continue accordingly.
This is very smart
Pretty obvious ..... equate circumference and perimeter. You get 4 side=2 pi*r a=2r/pi Area of square = 4r^2/pi^2 and area of circle= pi * r^2 4/pi^2 < pi.... so circle has larger area. Unfortunately I clicked on square and I realized my misfortune.
In your explanation you state the example's "circumference is 4pi". You then go on to say the "area of the circle is 4 x pi". In which case you appear to be saying the circumference of the circle equals its area, as 4pi and (4 x pi) are the same thing.
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Not that I'm disputing the answer, only to say that using an example where the circle's radius is 2, produces an illustration of the solution that is not a clear as you might wish.
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But l did prove it abstractly in the second paragraph. Check the rest of my proof. Also, the challenge master note is so helpful here. Thank you.
For a square: P = 4 L 1 ⟹ A 1 = ( 4 P ) 2 = 1 6 P 2 For a circle: P = L 2 , L 2 = 2 π r , A 2 = π r 2 = π ( 2 π P ) 2 = 4 π P 2 Now we have to compare A 1 to A 2 : 4 ⋅ 4 P 2 □ 4 π P 2
π < 4 ⟹ 4 π < 1 6 ⟹ A 2 > A 1 . So, the circle has a higher area.
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Thank you. I would write that as a solution.
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I would too, but is it possible to answer a question that is so old? FWIW, there is no text field for "Write your answer here"
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@Victor Dumbrava – I would tag any staff memeber and ask for help. Always new ideas are welcomed here.
4 a = 2 π r
a = 4 2 π r = 2 π r
A r e a □ = a 2 = ( 2 π r ) 2 = 4 π 2 r 2 ≈ 2 . 4 8 r 2 < 3 . 1 4 r 2 ≈ π r 2 = A r e a ◯
Nice, Thank you.
I also used this method but miscalculated somewhere that showed the square has bigger area.
Elegant! -Lee Slutes
Yeah accidentally thought that the perimeter of a square was 2a so stuffed up my calculations haha. Oh well.
I used this as well :)
More simple. Great!
Note: The picture is not drawn to scale.
One way of solving problems like this is to set a value for the radius of the circle or side length of the square.
Set r a d i u s = 1 . Then the circumference is 2 π r = 2 π ( 1 ) ≈ 6 . 2 8 3 1 8 5 3 0 7 and the area is π r 2 = π ( 1 2 ) ≈ 3 . 1 4 1 5 9 2 6 5 4
Since they have equal perimeters, compute for the side length of the square from the circumference of the circle.
6 . 2 8 3 1 8 5 3 0 7 = 4 x ⟹ x ≈ 1 . 5 7 0 7 9 6 3 2 7
So the area of the square is 1 . 5 7 0 7 9 6 3 2 7 2 ≈ 2 . 4 6 7 4 0 1 1
It can be seen that the area of the circle is larger than the area of the square.
Nice solution. Thank you for posting it.
** DISCLAIMER: Picture not drawn to scale. *
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The picture is not necessarily not drawn to scale. But thanks, I noted it in my solution.
With a fixed perimeter the area of a polygon increases as the number of edges increases. If we think of a circle with an infinite number of edges it is clear that it must have the larger area.
Let r be the radius of the circle and a be the side of the square.
We know that P c = 2 π r and P s = 4 a are the same, and we want to know which area is larger: that of the circle or of the square.
We know that A c = π r 2 and A s = a 2 . Since we don't know the values of r or a , we rewrite them as:
r = 2 π P c and a = 4 P s . Which allows to rewrite our area equations as:
A c = π ( 2 π P c ) 2 and A s = ( 4 P s ) 2 .
Which leaves us with:
A c = 4 π P c 2 \ and A s = 4 2 P s 2 \ .
Since 4 π < 4 2 , we can conclude that when P c = P s , then A c > A s for any value of P .
Nice algebra work. Just out of curiousity, can we prove that pi < 4 ?
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There was something like this ( π = 4 ) a few years ago. I am sure you might have seen this
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Yup .
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@Pi Han Goh – 🤣🤣 Your explanation should be marked as a separate option Trolled
Let r be the radius of the circle and l the side of the square.
P e r i m e t e r c i r c l e = P e r i m e t e r s q u a r e ⇔ 2 π r = 4 l ⇔ π r = 2 l ⇔ π 2 r 2 = 4 l 2 ⇔ π A c i r c l e = 4 A s q u a r e ⇔ A c i r c l e = π 4 A s q u a r e > A s q u a r e ■
suppose,both of their perimeter is 1.
in case of square,4x=1
0r,x=1/4=.25
in case of circle, 2πr=1
or, r=1/2π=.16
now,the area of square is, x^2=(o.25)^2=1/16=0.06
and the area of circle is, πr^2=0.08
so,the area of circle is bigger.
Why can we suppose that their perimeters are both 1? What if we set their perimeters as 2 instead? Would the answer change?
Let r be the radius of the circle and x be the side of the square.
Let P s be perimeter of the square and P c be perimeter of the circle.
P s = P c ⟹ 4 x = 2 π r ⟹ r = π 2 x ⟹ A r e a ◯ = π 4 x 2 > x 2 = A r e a □
Thank you.
Let r be the radius of the circle. Then the perimeter = circumference = 2 r pi, and the area = pi r^2. Then the perimeter of the square is = 2 r pi, so a side = (1/4) 2 r pi = r pi/2, and the area = (r pi/2)^2 = r^2*pi^2/4. . Since pi^2/4 > pi, the square has the larger area. Ed Gray
I was looking for the error in my analysis. It is not true that Pi^2/4 > pi. Feel better now. Edwin Gray
The isoperimetric inequality states that, given any simple closed curve in the plane (like both the circumpherence and the square are) with a fixed perimeter, the circumpherence is the curve that surrounds a bigger area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoperimetric_inequality
Oh wow! What a strong statement to solve such a standard question.
At least it gets the job done!
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Yeah :-) It's "killing flies with a cannon", as we say in Spain, but, well, it works... :-D
I just remembered hearing years ago that a sphere maximizes volume based on surface area. Not sure why. So I just applied the same logic to conclude that the circle must maximize area based on perimeter. :-)
The circle has infinite area.
I also remembered that/a similar point about a circle being the most efficient way to endorse a space (less perimeter for same area, so same perimeter = more area, but I still got it wrong!
I my case (I suspect many others too) my eyes, seeing the pictured examples shapes of a square with a greater area than the pictured circle overrode that logic, and ignored the written question (stating same perimeter) - The 2 images had the same height - in which case the square would have the greatest area. Rather than referring back to the question and the logic, I have a snap answer based on the images.
It's a bit like "the Stroop effect" - conflicting inputs can make for incorrect decisions (https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/java/ready.html)
If a deliberate distraction, then that's fine, but the questioner should probably mention it in the solution. If accidental the effect of the images should really be considered when composing questions (if interpreting anything from the results).
Posting the question without the images? I strongly predict a far higher success rate :)
What do you mean by "sphere maximizes volume based on surface area"? I don't think this is a proper phrase...
Suppose the perimeter of both shapes is 4 units.
Each side of the square is therefore 1 unit, so the square has an area of 1 × 1, i.e. 1.
The perimeter of the circle is 2 π r . So 2 π r = 4, and therefore r = 2 π 4 = π 2 .
The area of the circle is π r 2 . Since r = π 2 , the area is therefore π × ( π 2 ) 2 = π × π 2 4 = π 4 = 1.27, which is larger than the area of the square.
p = p e r i m e t e r
Area of square = ( p / 4 ) 2 = p 2 / 1 6
Perimeter of circle = 2 ∗ r ∗ p i
p = 2 ∗ r ∗ p i
r = p / 2 ∗ p i
Area of circle = r 2 ∗ p i = ( p / 2 ∗ p i ) 2 ∗ p i = p 2 / 4 ∗ p i
p 2 / 1 6 < p 2 / 4 ∗ p i -> Area of square < Area of circle
This is the proper solution because it proves that the area of the circle is greater then the area of the square for any perimeter. My solution was identical to this in every step. Well done Christian.
Let r be the radius of the circle and x be the side length of the square.
Now, 2 π r = 4 x ⟹ π r = 2 x ⟹ π r 2 = π ( 2 x ) 2 = π 4 x 2 > x 2 , since 0 < π < 4 .
Hence, the circle has larger area.
A circle's area is A = 2 π r , and its perimeter is P = 2 π r . A rectangle's area is A = s 2 (where s = side length), and its perimeter is P = 4 s .
2 π r = 4 s . Some math later... r = ( 2 s / π ) .
Thus, the A of the circle is 4 s 2 / π , which is bigger than s 2 (since 4 / π > 1 ).
Let the side length of the square be m and radius of the circle be r . We have
{ 2 π r = 4 m π r 2 : m 2
From the first eq. we have, by substitution:
⇒ m = 2 π r ⇔ m 2 = 4 π 2 r 2
Plugging into the 2nd eq. ,as RHS represents the square's area and LHS represents the circle's area:
π r 2 : 4 π 2 r 2 ⇒ 4 π r 2 : π 2 r 2 ⇔ 4 : π
Now from this we conclude, easily, that the L H S > R H S , or in other words:
A c i r c l e > A s q u a r e
let r= radius of circle and a=side length of square. 2 ∗ p i ∗ r = 4 ∗ a (Given) implies that ( p i / 2 ) = ( a / r ) squaring both sides, ( p i / 2 ) 2 = ( a / r ) 2 dividing the above equation by pi ( p i / 4 ) = ( a 2 ) / ( p i ∗ r 2 ) since p i is less than 4 , thus area of the circle is larger than the square.
How can I post my own questions ?
By clicking here
2pi r =4L
r/L = 4/(2pi)
r =0.6366L
area of square L^2 area of circle pi r^2 =pi x (0.6366L)^2 = 1.273L^2
therefore a if a circle and a square have the same perimeter the circle will always have an area 27.3% larger than the square
Let the side of square be x and radius of the circle r. We are given 4x = 2πr, 2x = πr, and r = 2x/π. Then πr^2 = 2xr, or πr^2 = 4x^2/π. Since 4/π > 1, then πr^2 > x^2, so the area of the circle is larger.
Let's consider π = 3 for this problem to make the calculation easier.
It is known that perimeter of the circle is = 2πr = 6r, (r is radius). It is known that the perimeter of the square is = 4L, (L is each side of the square).
Since they have same perimeter, 4L = 6r and from this we get that L = 2 3 r .
It is known that the area of the circle is πr², and the area of the square is L². Now let's suppose they have equal area and if we are wrong we will find what side of the equation is bigger. So 3r² = 4 9 r ² , and from this we get 3r² = 2.25r². -> 3r² > 2.25r²
So, for this problem, the area of the circle is larger ∀ r ∈ R.
pi = 3 is not true.
You can't just say "Let some constant = some incorrect value" and hope that your argument works out...
For each shape, consider the perimeter P and area A.
For the square:
P = 4 ∗ l
A = l 2
Therefore A = 4 ∗ 4 P 2
For the circle:
P = 2 π r
A = π r 2
Therefore A = 4 π P 2
π < 4 , so A ( c i r c l e ) > A ( s q u a r e )
El área del cuadrado esta definida por 4 P El área del circulo esta definida por π P Donde P, es el perímetro. Sabiendo que el perímetro es el mismo para ambos caso podemos crear la siguiente formula que nos permite ilustrar la relación de las áreas: A= 4 o r π P La relación del área es inversamente proporcional a la del denominador de la igualdad, por lo tanto al ser π (3.14...) menor a 4, entonces deducimos que la figura que mayor área tendrá sera la del circulo, debido a que el denominador relacionado en su ecuación es mas pequeño, que el del área del cuadrado, por lo tanto su área sera mayor.
Let P be the perimeter that is equal for both figures.
Square side length is P / 4 , area is P 2 / 1 6
Circle diameter is P / π , radius is P / 2 π , area is π ( P / 2 π ) 2 = P 2 / 4 π ,
Since π < 4 it follows that 4 ( π ) < 4 ( 4 ) = 1 6 and that the circle area is greater than the square area.
i'm not good enough with LaTEX to make the fix but 'r' shouldn't be squared in parentheses.
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I don't see any issue with your solution Thank you for posting it, looks logical and neat.
Given any closed 2 dimensional figure with a fixed value of perimeter the area of CIRCLE is the most .
You mean the MOST.
Can you show why this is true?
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First, since we are comparing areas, we can pick numbers and make our calculations easier. Suppose the radius of the circle is 2 , thus the circumference is 4 π which is equal to the perimeter of the square.
Thus, the side of the square is π .
The area of the square is π 2 = 9 . 8 6 9 6 .
The area of the circle is 4 × π = 1 2 . 5 6 6 4 .
We can conclude that the area of the circle is greater.
But we could also solve this more abstractly. Suppose the perimeter of the square and the circumference of the circle both equal to 4 x . Then each side of the square would be x and its area would be x 2 . The radius of the circle would be 2 π 4 x or π 2 x , so its area would be π ( π 2 x ) 2 or π 4 x 2 . Now, we can compare the area of the square, x 2 to the area of the circle π 4 x 2 .
Since 1 < π 4 , multiply both sides by x 2 to obtain x 2 < π 4 x 2 .
Thus, the area of the circle is greater.