Suppose that there are three astronauts outside a spaceship and that they decide to play catch. All the astronauts weigh the same on Earth and are equally strong. The first astronaut throws the second one toward the third one and the game begins. Describe the motion of the astronauts as the game proceeds.
How many throws will the game last for (including the one that starts the game)?
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You didn't specify any limit on how strongly astronauts can push each other off whenever they come together. If they increased the push force each time, this can go on indefinitely.
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Ooh crap I just realized I made you get a lvl 2 problem wrong! Oh gosh I'm sorry this must be like a comet to your lvl 5 status! :O
You're right. I was thinking about this, but then realized that this would be sort of obvious and there wouldn't really be a need to specify "All the astronauts are equally strong." Because mathematically no matter how strong they are, if they have at least some sort of strength, they can all agree to scale down their powers appropriately to the weakest astronaut in the group.
But I realize your sentiments. Did you get it wrong again? xD
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I knew you'd want to hear "Two Throws", but I put down "Indefinitely" anyway. But, yes, since no astronaut has infinite finesse in pushing, the practical answer is not indefinite. But in fact, it's quite possible for ordinary astronauts to throw each other more than twice. To illustrate this point, first let all three be in close proximity. The first throw is very gentle, so that one astronaut drifts toward the 3rd. The next throw is a bit more forceful, so that the middle astronaut can catch up with the 1st, which then would make possible a third throw.
When I get time today, I'll see if I can expand on this.
Also, someday, I'll actually go solve some electricity and magnets problems to get my rating up there too. Ugh. Not my favorite thing.
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@Michael Mendrin – Michael I know exactly what you mean by that. I thought about that too. And also considering what I said about power scaling.
But if we're to take a real life approach, the things would get MUCH MUCH more complicated. Like, what if the astronauts want to go to bathroom, or want to eat, or run out of oxygen, or get tired, or get hit by a meteor, etc. And the three dimensional dynamics we'd have to consider would simply make this problem non-conceptual. I guess I should specify to assume a purely mathematical approach in 1D kinematics. And I should specify that "equally strong" means they push with equal force. But the thing is, initially I didn't want to include that because this is almost like a hint, but whatever.
Oh, and yeah I've always wondered why your EM rating was so low. Obviously I figured you just chose not to do it after your freaking fractal dimensions and all that posts, and my fruify fly spirons or whatever lol... So now I wonder, Y U NO LIKE ELECTROMAGNETISM? me like EM. But me too noob to do EM.
lolz...
Cheers, Michael.
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@John M. – Yeah, cheers, John. Okay, I have to be out of town for a few days.
It might seem strange to some people that I put down "physics" as a favorite, and yet I don't work on much physics problems here. It's too much to get into why that is. Let's just say it has something to do with avoiding developing bad mental habits.
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@Michael Mendrin – Alright cya. Let your mind rest so that when you come back you can get cracking all over again! :)
Aaaaand.... what if we had a succession of N astronauts lined up, each in turn colliding with and being pushed off by the next. What would be the speed of the N th astronaut as N → ∞ ?
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s
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Hahaha. You always come up with the craziest images. :)
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@Brian Charlesworth – the burning astronaut is actually real. It happened, dunno when or how. Gotta look it up. ty though :)
@Brian Charlesworth – Yeah...right :D
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@John Muradeli you started teaching physics in the solution section. :D
Nice.But can we do this problem with concept of center of mass?I suspect the solution would be much simpler and shorter. what do you say @Michael Mendrin
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Ooh boy that's what he tried to pull off on me on my first problem :O he started to talk about the rotational momentum of the universe or something LOL. Well good luck with that! And I totally don't believe the solution can get any simpler than this. I just made it wordy to make the concept understandable to a broader audience.
Cheers
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Okkk...Teach us more physics through problems.
Could you give an explanation to this problem Please.
"I spent plenty of time thinking of this question and finally quite certain about the answer. All you described are exactly what I had thought about and I initially doubting if you have made an ambiguous question for astronauts being unwise of applying only equal strengths. You didn't mention what they wished. It is impulses that make the change of momentum rather just forces. I think equally strong means equal forces rather than impulses, am I right? Sorry for me to answer as I wished to score rather to report initially. You may have made a mistake. Please read my simple report and resolve accordingly. Thanks." (Previously wrote.)
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The wordings have just been changed to keep on with the selected answer. I believe this is the answer which the question wanted. I am marked correct with Indefinitely. Please ignore my comments which may not match with the present question.
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NOTE TO CHALLENGE MASTERS/MODERATORS:
This solution applies to any combination of throws as long as the forces involved are all equal, as stated in the Details section. Even if the second and the third astronauts swap places and the third astronaut pushes off of the second one and flings the second one into space and him/herself toward the first, same kinematics will apply as described below (the only difference being which astronaut went where).
If there is anything else that you'd like to dispute, go ahead, but don't just change the wording of the problem without my consent, please.
Thank you.
SOLUTION:
To fully understand this, first see Conceptual Physics: I
Linguistic:
From Conceptual Physics I, we should already know that answer C (can't throw in space) is wrong; we don't need to "push off" of anything in order to push other objects. As Newton's Third Law states:
"Whenever one object exerts a force on a second object, the second object exerts an equal and opposite force on the first."
In other words,
To every action there is always an opposed equal reaction
But, this is is really a Momentum Conservation problem rather than a Laws of Motion problem. So let's get into it:
The astronaut on the left pushes the astronaut in the middle, accelerating the middle astronaut towards the astronaut on the right with a certain speed (let's call it s )while also accelerating oneself to the left with an equal amount ( a = m F n e t - since F and m is the same for all the astronauts, a is the same also.)
The score is 1 .
Now, when the middle astronaut collides with the astronaut on the right, they both continue in their line of motion toward right with half the velocity the middle astronaut was traveling before the collision (this is due to momentum distribution for both astronauts in an inelastic collision. See Conceptual Physics: II .
Then, when the right astronaut throws the middle astronaut, the middle astronaut travels at 2 1 s to the left. This is because the right astronaut, along with the middle astronaut, was traveling at 2 1 s to the right, so half of this acceleration went into canceling the rightward momentum and the other half generating the leftward momentum.
The score is 2 .
And so, the left astronaut is traveling left with speed s , while the middle astronaut is hurling in the same direction, with half the speed, 2 1 s , and never catching up with the astronaut. And thus, the gave only lasts two throws (or one successful one).
Extra credit: Which astronaut is traveling at the highest speed?
Visual:
Mathematical
Law of Conservation of Momentum:
m v B e f o r e E v e n t = m v A f t e r E v e n t
Since they're all stationary (with respect to each other), the net momentum of the three astronaut system is zero.
m v B e f o r e = 0
When the first push occurs, the net momentum also must be zero.
m v L e f t + m v M i d d l e + m v R i g h t = 0 .
Since the right astronaut is initially stationary,
m v R i g h t = 0 ⇒ m v L e f t = − m v M i d d l e .
(Since masses are the same, velocities must be the opposite, as expected. (Newton's Third Law))
We can look at the Middle-Right astronaut system for now. When the right astronaut catches the middle astronaut, they share the momentum:
(net m v ) b e f o r e = (net m v ) a f t e r
( m × v ) b e f o r e = ( 2 m × V ) a f t e r
By simple algebra, V = 2 1 v . This makes sense because, since twice as much mass is moving after the collision, the velocity mst be half as much as the velocity before collision.
Briefly for the second throw:
m v M i d d l e B e f o r e + m v R i g h t B e f o r e = m v M i d d l e A f t e r + m v R i g h t A f t e r .
v is going to change by the same about in accord with Newton's Third and Second laws; that is, the astronaut pushes with a force and is pushed by a force equal and opposite to the push, and thus accelerates both oneself and the other astronaut by the same amount. Or, when we use v as the initial speed of the push as reference,
( 2 m ) ( 2 1 v ) = m ( ( 2 1 v ) + v ) + m ( A v )
Solving for A reveals A = − 2 1 . So, the Middle Astronaut travels in opposite direction with half the initial velocity.
Since the velocity of the Left astronaut is still v and the velocity of the middle astronaut is now 2 1 v , the Middle astronaut is left forever floating in space.
Also note the net momentum of the system is always conserved: m v L e f t + m v M i d d l e + m v R i g h t = m ( − v ) + m ( − 2 1 v ) + m ( v + 2 1 v ) = 0 .
Poor astronauts...
But really, poor right astronaut...