Confusing Conics & Circles! Wow!!

Geometry Level 3

Let C C be any circle with centre ( 0 , 2 ) (0,\sqrt{2}) . At most how many rational points can lie on C C .

Details and Assumptions:

  • A rational point is a point both of whose coordinates are rational numbers.
  • This problem is not original.
  • Good Luck 😃😊😁


The answer is 2.

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3 solutions

Ayush Garg
Oct 13, 2014

The general equation of circle satisfying the above condition can be written as

x 2 + ( y 2 ) 2 = r 2 { x }^{ 2 }+{ \left( y-\sqrt { 2 } \right) }^{ 2 }={ r }^{ 2 }

where r is the radius of circle,expanding it we get

x 2 + y 2 + 2 = r 2 + 2 2 y { x }^{ 2 }+{ y }^{ 2 }+2\quad =\quad { r }^{ 2 }+2\sqrt { 2 } y

Since x,y are rational ,Right hand side must also be rational

C a s e : 1 Case:1 - r 2 { r }^{ 2 } is rational

Then only y=0 will satisfy given condition and give at most 2 points.

C a s e : 2 Case:2 - r 2 { r }^{ 2 } is irrational

Sum of 2 irrational numbers is always irrational unless r 2 { r }^{ 2 } is of form P 2 2 Q P-2\sqrt { 2 } Q (where P and Q are rational) but even then we get rational number on right side only for y=Q and get at most two points.

yours is more satisfying!! cheers!!

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 8 months ago

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Read mine below (without any calculation).

Gautam Sharma - 6 years, 5 months ago
Gautam Sharma
Dec 27, 2014

Let there be three rational points on circle C. Then there Circumcentre should come rational because circumcentre is intersection of perpendicular bisectors .You can figure it out mathematically too. But given circumcentre is irrational so 3 rational points are not possible.

Now considering 4 or more rational points Here take any three points and the previous case will arise.

Hence at most 2 rational points are possible.

please post contradictions and comments and questions.

try this question and have fun and please reshare it if you like it.

Yash Singhal
Sep 27, 2014

Let us assume that there are 3 3 rational points on the circle having its equation: x 2 + y 2 + 2 g x + 2 f y + c = 0 x^{2}+y^{2}+2gx+2fy+c=0 . Since, three rational points lie on the circle, we will get three linear equations in g , f g,f and c c with rational coefficients. But f = 2 f=\sqrt{2} . Thus, we arrive at a contradiction. Hence, there can be at most 2 rational points on C C .

To show that is indeed the maximum, you also have to find a circle which has 2 rational points on C. Does such a circle exist?

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 8 months ago

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@Calvin Lin Yes. The circle x 2 + ( y 2 ) 2 = 3 x^{2} + (y - \sqrt{2})^{2} = 3 has both the points ( 1 , 0 ) (-1,0) and ( 1 , 0 ) (1,0) on its circumference.

Interestingly, the circle x 2 + y 2 = 3 x^{2} + y^{2} = 3 has no rational points on its circumference. Hmmm.... this is bringing a lot of other questions to mind, but I really need to get to sleep. :P

Brian Charlesworth - 6 years, 6 months ago

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I am waiting :D

Krishna Sharma - 6 years, 6 months ago

Hint: 3 3 ( m o d 4 ) 3 \equiv 3 \pmod{4} .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 6 months ago

Let there be three rational points on circle C. Then there Circumcentre should come rational because circumcentre is intersection of perpendicular bisectors .You can figure it out mathematically too. But given circumcentre is irrational so 3 rational points are not possible. Now considering 4 or more rational points Here take any three points and the previous case will arise. Hence at most 2 rational points are possible.

Gautam Sharma - 6 years, 5 months ago

It surely exists because of a symmetry.

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 8 months ago

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Why? Consider the circle with center ( 0 , 2 ) (0, \sqrt{2}) and radius 2 \sqrt{2} . It passes through the point ( 0 , 0 ) (0,0) . which other rational point lies on this circle? I'm not certain I see the symmetry argument.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 8 months ago

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@Calvin Lin symmetry thing is only possible when the radius is rational!! not valid for irrational radii!!

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 8 months ago

@Calvin Lin Let there be three rational points on circle C. Then there Circumcentre should come rational because circumcentre is intersection of perpendicular bisectors .You can figure it out mathematically too. But given circumcentre is irrational so 3 rational points are not possible. Now considering 4 or more rational points Here take any three points and the previous case will arise. Hence at most 2 rational points are possible.

Gautam Sharma - 6 years, 5 months ago

is there any more satisfying solution to this!!

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 8 months ago

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Sure, I have posted a solution. Check it out!

Ayush Garg - 6 years, 8 months ago

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