Creative Question I

Algebra Level 2

x + x + x + 3 3 3 = x x x 3 3 3 \large \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}}\ =\ \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ldots}}}

The non-zero solution x x of the equation above can be written as a + b 2 , \frac{\sqrt{a}+\sqrt{b}}{2}, where a a and b b are positive integers.

What is a + b ? a+b?


The answer is 14.

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7 solutions

Jian Hau Chooi
Jul 22, 2018

x + x + x + 3 3 3 = x x x 3 3 3 = k \large\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}}=\sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\cdots}}}=k

Let's solve the second part: x x x 3 3 3 = k x k 3 = k x k = k 3 k = x ( k > 0 ) \begin{aligned} \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\cdots}}} &= k \\ \sqrt[3]{xk}&= k \\ xk &= k^{3} \\ k &= \sqrt{x} \ \ \ (\because k > 0) \\ \end{aligned}

Now we back to the first part: x + x + x + 3 3 3 = k x + k 3 = k x + x 3 = x x + x = x x x x 1 = x x 2 x 2 2 x + 1 = x x 2 3 x + 1 = 0 ( x 0 ) \begin{aligned} \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}} &= k \\ \sqrt[3]{x+k} &=k \\ \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt{x}} &= \sqrt{x} \\ x+\sqrt{x} &= x\sqrt{x} \\ \frac{x}{x-1} &=\sqrt{x} \\ \frac{x^{2}}{x^{2}-2x+1} &= x \\ x^{2}-3x+1 &= 0 \ \ \ (\because x \neq 0) \\ \end{aligned}

By using the formula, we can obtain the solution of x x : x = 3 + 5 2 ( x x 1 > 0 ) \large x=\frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} \ \ \ \bigg(\because\frac{x}{x-1}>0 \bigg)

Hence, we found that a = 9 a=9 , b = 5 b=5 , and the value of a + b a+b is equal to 14 \large\boxed{14} .

The reason we don't choose the other root x = 3 5 2 x=\frac{3-\sqrt5}{2} (which is also greater than 0 by the way) is because k = x = x x 1 k=\sqrt{x}=\frac{x}{x-1} would be smaller than 0.

Kenneth Tan - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Thanks for correcting me!

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

yeah sorry but you was a bit late but i did a

Viet Hung - 2 years, 10 months ago

Can you please explain it further. I mean even if you take the x = (3-\sqrt{5})/2 it satisfies all the above equations. What is the reason we're not taking it. And also what is the logic behind taking k>0 only. Why k can't be negative.

Sameer Sahoo - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Refer to the 6th line:

k = x k=\sqrt{x} , thus k > 0 k>0 .

Refer to the 12nd line: x x 1 = x \frac{x}{x-1}=\sqrt{x} , thus x x 1 > 0 \frac{x}{x-1}>0 .

If we are taking x = 3 5 2 x=\frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} , x x 1 \frac{x}{x-1} will be smaller than 0 0 .

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

This problem is a lot easier to solve than to come up with!

Marc Moncada - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Cheers \text{Cheers~}

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

whhaaat. x^2 / (x^2 - 2x + 1) = x -> x^2 - 3x + 1 = 0, how did you get it ?

Zhanbolat Kussainov - 2 years, 10 months ago

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both side divided by x, and move the denominator of the LHS to RHS.

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

I did the following: x² / (x² - 2x + 1) = x Move x from RHS to LHS and put on same denominator: (x² - x * (x² - 2x + 1)) / (x² - 2x + 1) = 0 Simplify: (-x^3 + 3x² - x) / (x² - 2x + 1) = 0 As it is a fraction, and x != 0, we can remove the denominator: -x^3 + 3x² - x = 0 As x != 0, we can divide by x: -x² + 3x - 1 = 0 Multiply by -1 to get nicer result: x² - 3x + 1 = 0

Took me 10 minutes to find out :'(

Arthur Cousseau - 2 years, 10 months ago

$x = 0$, so $a + b = 0$, qed.

Pedro Bibiloni - 2 years, 10 months ago

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a a and b b are both positive integers, qed.

Kenneth Tan - 2 years, 10 months ago

note that both a,b are positive integers, thus a+b should be greater than 0.

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

This is so nicely related to phi!

Giacomo Mastrosimone - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Yes, x x is the square of phi!

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

where did 9 and 5 come from??

Jayke Narn - 2 years, 10 months ago

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the solution of x x of the equation a x 2 + b x + c = 0 ax^{2}+bx+c=0 is:

x = b ± b 2 4 a c 2 a \large x=\frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^{2}-4ac}}{2a}

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

how did you get x = (3+√5) /2 ??

Jayke Narn - 2 years, 10 months ago

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the solution of x x of the equation a x 2 + b x + c = 0 ax^{2}+bx+c=0 is:

x = b ± b 2 4 a c 2 a \large x=\frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^{2}-4ac}}{2a}

Hence,

the solution of x x of the equation x 2 3 x + 1 = 0 x^{2}-3x+1=0 is:

a = 1 , b = 3 , c = 1 a=1, b=-3, c=1

x = b ± b 2 4 a c 2 a = 3 ± 3 2 4 2 = 3 ± 5 2 \begin{aligned} \large x &= \frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^{2}-4ac}}{2a} \\ &= \frac{3\pm\sqrt{3^{2}-4}}{2} \\ &= \frac{3\pm\sqrt{5}}{2} \\ \end{aligned}

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Thank you. Now, I understand

Jayke Narn - 2 years, 10 months ago

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@Jayke Narn You're welcome!

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

how you get the third step ?

Aza Ama - 2 years, 10 months ago

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the solution of x x of the equation a x 2 + b x + c = 0 ax^{2}+bx+c=0 is:

x = b ± b 2 4 a c 2 a \large x=\frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^{2}-4ac}}{2a}

Hence,

the solution of x x of the equation x 2 3 x + 1 = 0 x^{2}-3x+1=0 is:

a = 1 , b = 3 , c = 1 a=1, b=-3, c=1

x = b ± b 2 4 a c 2 a = 3 ± 3 2 4 2 = 3 ± 5 2 \begin{aligned} \large x &= \frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^{2}-4ac}}{2a} \\ &= \frac{3\pm\sqrt{3^{2}-4}}{2} \\ &= \frac{3\pm\sqrt{5}}{2} \\ \end{aligned}

Jian Hau Chooi - 2 years, 10 months ago

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you don't understand me i mean this step ( x k) ^1/3=k ? why (x k)^1/3 = k ?

Aza Ama - 2 years, 10 months ago

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@Aza Ama Okay, we let x x x 3 3 3 3 = k \sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{\ldots}}}}=k , this is an infinite nest of x x s and cube roots.

You with me? Good.

But hold on a second! Take a look at this (the highlighted part):

x x x 3 3 3 3 = k \sqrt[3]{x{\color{#EC7300}\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{\ldots}}}}}=k

Let's pull it out:

x x 3 3 3 {\color{#EC7300}\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{\ldots}}}}

OMG! This is also an infinite nest of x x s and cube roots! It's the same thing as x x x 3 3 3 3 = k \sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{\ldots}}}}=k as we had before!

Hence, we can substitute x x 3 3 3 = k {\color{#EC7300}\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{\ldots}}}}=k , and that is why we have x k 3 = k \sqrt[3]{xk}=k .

I hope that makes sense for you. :)

Kenneth Tan - 2 years, 10 months ago

pretty indeed!

Nik Gibson - 2 years, 9 months ago

May I know how do you make sure the number exists?

Ong Zi Qian - 2 years, 9 months ago

this is an extremely hard question, and this solution clarified every single thing. Well done!

Krishna Karthik - 2 years, 9 months ago
Noel Lo
Jul 29, 2018

Employing the infinite geometric series, note that:

x x x 3 3 3 = x 1 / 3 + ( 1 / 3 ) 2 + . . . = x 1 / 3 1 1 / 3 = x 1 / 2 = x \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\cdots}}}=x^{1/3+(1/3)^2+...}=x^{\frac{1/3}{1-1/3}}=x^{1/2}=\sqrt{x}

Then we have:

x + x 3 = x \ \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt{x}}=\sqrt{x}

( x + x ) 2 = x 3 (x+\sqrt{x})^{2}=x^3

( x ( x + 1 ) ) 2 = x 1 + 2 (\sqrt{x}(\sqrt{x}+1))^{2}=x^{1+2}

x ( x + 1 ) 2 = x x 2 \cancel{x}(\sqrt{x}+1)^2=\cancel{x}x^2

( x + 1 ) 2 = x 2 (\sqrt{x}+1)^2=x^2

x + 1 = x \sqrt{x}+1=x where we reject x + 1 = x \sqrt{x}+1=-x considering that this would make either x x or x -\sqrt{x} negative.

x = x 1 \sqrt{x}=x-1

x = x 2 2 x + 1 x=x^2-2x+1

x 2 3 x + 1 = 0 x^2-3x+1=0

x = 3 + 3 2 4 ( 1 ) 2 = 9 + 9 4 2 = 9 + 5 2 x=\dfrac{3+\sqrt{3^2-4(1)}}{2}=\dfrac{\sqrt{9}+\sqrt{9-4}}{2}=\dfrac{\sqrt{9}+\sqrt{5}}{2}

As required, a + b = 9 + 5 = 14 a+b=9+5=\boxed{14} .

Vinod Kumar
Jul 30, 2018

Set LHS and RHS = y, then

(1) (x+y)=y^3

(2) y^3=xy

Elliminating y, we get x=1+√x, and it gives the solution as x=(1/2)(√9 +√5), thus, a=9 & b=5 and Answer=(a+b)=14.

Clearest explanation so far.

jamie Copus - 2 years, 10 months ago

How did you get to equation (1) and (2)?

Lenny Post - 2 years, 10 months ago

Saimple and most clear

Vishu Viswanathan - 2 years, 10 months ago

Let u = x + x + x + 3 3 3 = x x x 3 3 3 u = \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}} = \sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\cdots}}} .

Then

u = x + x + x + 3 3 3 Cubing both sides u 3 = x + u . . . ( 1 ) \begin{aligned} u & = \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}} & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Cubing both sides} \\ \implies u^3 & = x + u & ...(1) \end{aligned}

And

u = x x x 3 3 3 Cubing both sides u 3 = x u For u 0 x = u 2 . . . ( 2 ) \begin{aligned} u & = \sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\cdots}}} & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Cubing both sides} \\ u^3 & = xu & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{For }u \ne 0 \\ \implies x & = u^2 & ...(2) \end{aligned}

Substitute x = u 2 x=u^2 in equation (1):

u 3 = u 2 + u For u 0 u 2 u 1 = 0 Solving the quadratic for u u = 1 ± 5 2 \begin{aligned} u^3 & = u^2 + u & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{For }u \ne 0 \\ u^2-u-1 & = 0 & \small \color{#3D99F6} \text{Solving the quadratic for }u \\ \implies u & = \frac {1\pm \sqrt 5}2 \end{aligned}

From equation (2): x = u 2 = ( 1 ± 5 2 ) 2 = { 6 + 2 5 4 = 3 + 5 2 = 9 + 5 2 6 + 2 5 4 = 3 5 2 Rejected (see note) x = u^2 = \left(\dfrac {1\pm \sqrt 5}2\right)^2 = \begin{cases} \dfrac {6+2\sqrt 5}4 = \dfrac {3+\sqrt 5}2 = \dfrac {\sqrt 9+\sqrt 5}2 \\ \dfrac {6+2\sqrt 5}4 = \dfrac {3-\sqrt 5}2 \quad \color{#D61F06} \text{Rejected (see note)}\end{cases}

Therefore, a + b = 9 + 5 = 14 a+b = 9 + 5 = \boxed{14} .


Note: Putting x = 3 5 2 x = \frac {3-\sqrt 5}2 in x + x + x + 3 3 3 1.153721376 \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}} \approx 1.153721376 , but putting it in x x x 3 3 3 0.618033989 \sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\sqrt[3]{x\cdots}}} \approx 0.618033989 .

Just curious, why are you assuming u > 0 ? Cube roots work just fine for negative numbers...

C . - 2 years, 9 months ago

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You are right. I have made the wrong assumption. The other value does not give the solution. I will change my solution. Thanks.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 2 years, 9 months ago
Kimberly Rae
Aug 2, 2018

Let the given expression = A and cube

we have A 3 = x + A = x A A^3 = x+A = xA

This gives x + A = x A x+A = xA

x = x A A x = A ( x 1 ) x ( x 1 ) = A x = xA - A\\ x = A(x-1)\\ \frac{x}{(x-1)} = A

Since A 3 = x A A^3 = xA we have

x 3 ( x 1 ) 3 = x x x 1 x 3 ( x 1 ) 3 = x 2 x 1 \frac{x^3}{(x-1)^3} = x\frac{x}{x-1}\\ \frac{x^3}{(x-1)^3} = \frac{x^2}{x-1}\\

Since a a and b b are integers, x 1 x \neq{1} and x 1 0 x - 1 \neq{0}

Cancelling

x ( x 1 ) 2 = 1 x = ( x 1 ) 2 x = x 2 2 x + 1 x 2 3 x + 1 = 0 \frac{x}{(x-1)^2} = 1\\ x = (x-1)^2\\ x = x^2 - 2x +1\\ x^2 - 3x +1 = 0

Using the general solution and solving for x:

x = 3 + 5 2 x = 9 + 5 2 x = \frac{3 + \sqrt{5}}{2}\\ x = \frac{\sqrt{9} + \sqrt{5}}{2}

since both a and b are to be positive integers

Thus a = 9 a = 9 and b = 5 b = 5 so a + b = 14 a + b = 14

Not sure that a and b being integers help to restrict x from being =1... Rather, in the earlier equation, x = (x-1)A, having x=1 would lead to a contradiction.

Also, why eliminate 3 5 2 \frac{3-\sqrt5}2 ? Just because it doesn't fit the specified form of a + b 2 \frac{\sqrt{a}+\sqrt{b}}2 ?!

C . - 2 years, 9 months ago

Substitution is everything: x + x + x + 3 3 3 = y \sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\sqrt[3]{x+\cdots}}}=y and x x x 3 3 3 = z \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ \sqrt[3]{x\ldots}}}=z .

We can then write y = x + y 3 y=\sqrt[3]{x+y} and z = x z 3 z=\sqrt[3]{xz} .

Cube both equations and solve for x x : x = y 3 y x=y^{3}-y and x = z 2 x=z^{2} . So, y 3 y = z 2 y^{3}-y=z^{2} .

Remember y = z y=z . Thus, y 3 y 2 y = 0 y^{3}-y^{2}-y=0 . Solving for y y , we get y = 1 + 5 2 y=\frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2} .

Since y = z y=z , just square y y to find x x : x = 9 + 5 2 x=\frac{\sqrt{9}+\sqrt{5}}{2} . So the answer is 9 + 5 = 14 9+5=\boxed{14}

x + x + . . . 3 3 = x x . . . 3 3 \sqrt [3]{x + \sqrt [3]{x+...}} = \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}}

x + x + x + . . . 3 3 = x x x . . . 3 3 \sqrt [3]{x + \sqrt [3]{x+...}} = x \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}}

x + x x . . . 3 3 \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}} = x x x . . . 3 3 \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}}

x= x x . . . 3 3 \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}} (x-1)

x 3 = x x x . . . 3 3 ( x 1 ) 3 x^3 =x \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}} (x-1)^3

x 3 = x ( x 1 ) 2 x x . . . 3 3 ( x 1 ) x^3 = x (x-1)^2 \sqrt [3]{x \sqrt [3]{x...}} (x-1)

x 3 = x ( x 1 ) 2 x x^3 = x (x-1)^2 x

x 2 [ ( x 1 ) 2 x ] x^2 [ (x-1)^2 -x] =0

x 2 = 0 x^2 =0 , or x 2 3 x + 1 = 0 x^2 -3x +1=0

Because x > 0

x= 3 + 9 4 2 \frac {3 + \sqrt {9-4}} {2}

x = 9 + 5 2 = a + b 2 \frac {\sqrt {9} + \sqrt {5}} {2} =\frac { \sqrt {a} + \sqrt {b}} {2}

So a + b = 14

3 5 3-\sqrt5 >0 so that's not enough justification to remove the lesser of the two quadratic solutions...

C . - 2 years, 9 months ago

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