Vieta's Derivatives

Algebra Level 4

f ( x ) = x 3 x 2 2 x + 1 f(x)=x^{3}-x^{2}-2x+1

Let the zeros of the function above be α , β , \alpha,\beta, and γ . \gamma.

Find f ( α ) × f ( β ) × f ( γ ) . f'(\alpha)\times f'(\beta)\times f'(\gamma).

Note: f ( x ) f'(x) denotes the derivative of f ( x ) . f(x).


The answer is -49.

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6 solutions

Ankush Tiwari
Apr 6, 2015

We have f ( x ) = x 3 x 2 2 x + 1 = ( x α ) ( x β ) ( x γ ) f(x)=x^{3}-x^{2}-2x+1 = (x - \alpha)(x - \beta)(x -\gamma)

f ( x ) = ( x α ) ( x β ) + ( x β ) ( x γ ) + ( x α ) ( x γ ) \Rightarrow f'(x) = (x - \alpha)(x - \beta) + (x - \beta)(x -\gamma) + (x - \alpha)(x -\gamma)

So ,from this we may calculate f ( α ) , f ( β ) f'(\alpha) , f'(\beta) , and f ( γ ) f'(\gamma) and get

f ( α ) × f ( β ) × f ( γ ) = ( α β ) 2 ( β γ ) 2 ( γ α ) 2 f'(\alpha)\times f'(\beta)\times f'(\gamma) = -(\alpha - \beta)^2(\beta - \gamma)^2(\gamma - \alpha)^2

Now, using the definition of discriminant we have

Δ = ( α β ) 2 ( β γ ) 2 ( γ α ) 2 \Delta = (\alpha - \beta)^2(\beta - \gamma)^2(\gamma - \alpha)^2

The discriminant for the cubic polynomial p x 3 + q x 2 + r x + s px^3 + qx^2 + rx + s is given by Δ = q 2 r 2 4 p r 3 4 q 3 s 27 p 2 s 2 + 18 p q r s \Delta = q^2r^2 -4pr^3 -4q^3s - 27p^2s^2 + 18pqrs

On calculation we get Δ = 49 \Delta = 49 , so our final answer is 49 - 49 .

i can't undersand the 'DEFINITION OF DISCRIMINANT FOR CUBIC POLYNOMIAL' .would u pls help??

Swarnendu Bhattacharjee - 5 years, 7 months ago

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It is the common general definition for polynomial discriminant. When they are null, there are multiple roots.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PolynomialDiscriminant.html

Didier Sarrazin - 5 years, 4 months ago

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Great link, thanks for posting

Ben Lou - 3 years, 1 month ago

It is a problem of writing this symmetric function in terms of the elementary ones, which amounts to prove the discriminant formula, unless one knows it by heart...kind of messy. Anyone trying a Vandermonde approach?

Marcus Barão Camarão - 5 years, 3 months ago

Your f'(x) are missing coefficients in front of the multiples (I think), i.e. a negative gamma before (x-a)(x-b). They cancel each other out in the multiplication part because alpha beta gamma = -1.

Isaac Nichols - 4 years, 10 months ago

When you solved this question did you know the fact used in the first step yet?

Andrea Virgillito - 4 years, 9 months ago

Your solution is just simple, beautiful and profound. Really Loved it.

Aniruddha Bagchi - 2 years, 11 months ago

Please explain in detail I can't understand from definition of discriminant

Maya Porov - 2 years, 4 months ago
Pi Han Goh
Apr 6, 2015

Here's a non-discriminant approach but without bashing out the solution.

We have f ( x ) = 3 x 2 2 x 2 f'(x) = 3x^2 - 2x - 2 , so we want to find r = { α , β , γ } ( 3 r 2 2 r 2 ) \displaystyle \prod_{ r = \{ \alpha, \beta, \gamma \} } (3r^2 - 2r - 2)

Expanding it and comparing it by Vieta's formula will be extremely tedious. So I consider factoring the quadratic polynomial.

Consider 3 x 2 2 x 2 = 3 ( x A ) ( x B ) 3x^2 - 2x - 2 = 3(x-A)(x-B) , solving the identity equation for constants A , B A,B (values are interexchangeable) gives A = 1 + 7 3 , B = 1 7 3 A = \frac { 1 + \sqrt7}{3},B = \frac { 1 - \sqrt7}{3}

Thus the desired product becomes

3 3 r = { α , β , γ } [ ( r 1 3 + 7 3 ) ( r 1 3 7 3 ) ] = 27 r = { α , β , γ } [ ( r 1 3 ) 2 7 9 ] \begin{aligned} & & 3^3 \displaystyle \prod_{ r = \{ \alpha, \beta, \gamma \} } \left [ \left (r - \frac 1 3 + \frac { \sqrt{7} }{3} \right ) \left (r - \frac 1 3 - \frac { \sqrt{7} }{3} \right ) \right ] \\ & = & 27 \displaystyle \prod_{ r = \{ \alpha, \beta, \gamma \} } \left [ \left (r-\frac 1 3 \right )^2 - \frac {7}{9} \right ] \\ \end{aligned}

Let g ( x ) = f ( x + 1 3 ) = x 3 7 3 x + 7 27 g(x) = f \left (x+ \frac 1 3 \right ) =x^3- \frac 7 3 x+ \frac 7 {27} be a cubic function with roots α = α 1 3 , β = β 1 3 , γ = γ 1 3 \alpha^* = \alpha - \frac 13 , \beta^* = \beta - \frac 13 , \gamma^* = \gamma - \frac 13 . The product further simplifies to

27 r = { α , β , γ } [ r 2 7 9 ] 27 \displaystyle \prod_{ r = \{ \alpha^*, \beta^*, \gamma^* \} } \left [ r^2 - \frac {7}{9} \right ]

Now consider h ( x ) = g ( x ) = 0 h(x) = g ( \sqrt{x} ) = 0 be a cubic equation has roots ( α ) 2 , ( β ) 2 , ( γ ) 2 (\alpha^*)^2, (\beta^*)^2, (\gamma^*)^2

x x 7 3 x + 7 27 = 0 x ( x 7 3 ) 2 = ( 7 27 ) 2 x 3 14 3 x 2 + 49 9 x 49 729 = 0 \begin{aligned} x \sqrt x - \frac 7 3 \sqrt x + \frac {7}{27} & = & 0 \\ x \left (x-\frac 7 3 \right )^2 & = & \left (\frac {7}{27} \right )^2 \\ x^3- \frac {14}{3} x^2+\frac {49}{9} x -\frac {49}{729} & = & 0 \\ \end{aligned}

So h ( x ) = x 3 14 3 x 2 + 49 9 x 49 729 h(x) = x^3- \frac {14}{3} x^2+\frac {49}{9} x -\frac {49}{729} . Product becomes

27 r = { ( α ) 2 , ( β ) 2 , ( γ ) 2 } [ r 7 9 ] 27 \displaystyle \prod_{ r = \{ (\alpha^*)^2, (\beta^*)^2, (\gamma^*)^2 \} } \left [ r - \frac {7}{9} \right ]

So the product above is simply 27 -27 (we multiply by 1 -1 because by Vieta's formula it's the constant term in a cubic equation) times by the coefficient of the constant term in the expansion of h ( x + 7 9 ) h \left ( x + \frac {7}{9} \right ) .

Hence, the answer is 27 × [ ( 7 9 ) 3 14 3 ( 7 9 ) 2 + 49 9 ( 7 9 ) 49 729 ] = 49 -27 \times \left [ \left ( \frac {7}{9} \right )^3 - \frac {14}{3} \left ( \frac {7}{9} \right )^2 + \frac {49}{9} \left ( \frac {7}{9} \right ) - \frac {49}{729} \right ] = \boxed{-49}

This just shows that this problem could be solved without expanding the product and without the knowledge of the discriminant of the cubic equation, but doing so will look extremely ridiculous.

awesome approach ...

Himanshu Singh - 5 years, 2 months ago

this is very cool, never seen such a thing!

Ermes Trismegisto - 4 years, 11 months ago

Simply the best !!

Anurag Pandey - 4 years, 9 months ago

I don't get it, you lost me at -27 and obtaining the solution how???

Shageenth Sandrakumar - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Try expanding h(x+7/9).

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 8 months ago

Discriminants and all that are messy. I just resorted to WolframAlpha :c

Jake Lai - 6 years, 1 month ago
Zoom Pasapol
Feb 23, 2017

f ( x ) = x 3 x 2 2 x + 1 = 0 1 = 2 x + x 2 x 3 f(x) = x^3 - x^2 - 2x + 1 = 0 \Rightarrow 1 = 2x+x^2-x^3

Hence, f ( x ) = 3 x 2 2 x 2 ( 2 x + x 2 x 3 ) = x ( 2 x 3 ) ( x + 2 ) f'(x) = 3x^2 - 2x - 2(2x+x^2-x^3) = x(2x-3)(x+2) .

Let the solutions for f ( x ) = 0 f(x) = 0 be a a , b b , and c c .

We know that a b c = 1 , a b + b c + c a = 2 , a + b + c = 1 abc = -1, ab+bc+ca = -2, a+b+c = 1 .

Therefore,

f ( a ) f ( b ) f ( c ) = a b c [ ( 2 a 3 ) ( 2 b 3 ) ( 2 c 3 ) ] [ ( a + 2 ) ( b + 2 ) ( c + 2 ) ] f'(a)f'(b)f'(c) = abc[(2a-3)(2b-3)(2c-3)][(a+2)(b+2)(c+2)]

= a b c [ 8 a b c 12 ( a b + b c + c a ) + 18 ( a + b + c ) 27 ] [ a b c + 2 ( a c + b c + c a ) + 4 ( a + b + c ) + 8 ] = abc[8abc-12(ab+bc+ca)+18(a+b+c)-27][abc+2(ac+bc+ca)+4(a+b+c)+8]

= ( 1 ) ( 7 ) ( 7 ) = 49 = (-1)(7)(7) = -49

Used TI-83 Plus, graphed the curve, found the roots and calculated the answer from the calculator.

The reason why this kind of solution is disliked on brilliant is because it used bashing and that solving question graphically removes the beauty of the question.

However, in physics... who cares? If it works, it works.

Julian Poon - 6 years, 2 months ago

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Though I solve by graphing I totally agree with your comment ,"solving question graphically removes the beauty of the question". It for this reason I always mention how I have solved it. Since I do not want to loose point by asking to show answer I use this. I am not good at higher maths but want to know. I do not know web-site that can teach this. Can you or any one suggest a good website? Thanks.

Niranjan Khanderia - 6 years, 2 months ago

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Actually there is plenty of information here on Brilliant.org in the wiki/learning sections, along with quizzes to test and reinforce your skills. The upside to brilliant is that it has a learned community that you can always interact with, and it has a sizeable collection of lessons on important mathematical methods and problems. You will find plenty of information on Wikipedia as well if you cannot find it here. Also I recommend "How to Prove it" by Velleman to learn logic and proof strategies.

Caleb Townsend - 6 years, 2 months ago

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@Caleb Townsend Thank you. I did not find sufficient in our wiki. I will try again.

Niranjan Khanderia - 6 years, 2 months ago

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@Niranjan Khanderia No problem. If you want to try a similar problem again without graphing, I posted one today, based on this problem. I assure you graphing is not required, and it can be solved easily without a graph if you are familiar with the properties of polynomials. If you are interested, here is the link to "Inspired by Vieta's Derivatives." I recently helped someone with a polynomial concept and while I was solving Vieta's Derivatives at the bank today, the idea came to me.

Caleb Townsend - 6 years, 2 months ago

y(x)=3x^2-2x-2, evaluate y(-1.2470)×y(.44504)×y(1.8019)

=-48.9979

Wolframalpha

Harout G. Vartanian - 4 years, 5 months ago

hello it was a really great solution but it is a level 5 question ,u know naa soo u have to solve it analytically ,please dont share such kind of solutions as we too know how do it computationally.

Luna Biswas - 2 years, 8 months ago

Let M = ( 0 0 1 1 0 2 0 1 1 ) M = \begin{pmatrix} 0 & 0 & -1 \\ 1 & 0 & 2 \\ 0 & 1 & 1 \end{pmatrix} the companion matrix of the polynomial f f . The matrix M M is similar to a triangular one with α , β , γ \alpha, \beta, \gamma on its diagonal, so that for any polynomial g g , the matrix g ( M ) g(M) is similar to a triangular one with g ( α ) , g ( β ) , g ( γ ) g(\alpha), g(\beta), g(\gamma) on its diagonal. Hence, the answer is the determinant of the matrix f ( M ) = 3 M 2 2 M 2 I 3 = ( 2 3 1 2 4 1 3 1 5 ) f'(M) = 3M^2 - 2M - 2 I_3 = \begin{pmatrix} -2 & -3 & -1 \\ -2 & 4 & -1 \\ 3 & 1 & 5 \end{pmatrix} .

Please explain more. Thanks.

伟盛 林 - 4 years, 10 months ago

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ß = a = 3/7 f ( x ). therefore. x = 2M.

Am Kemplin - 1 month, 1 week ago

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with the help of π. we can add 2-π.

Am Kemplin - 1 month, 1 week ago
Hung Woei Neoh
Apr 13, 2016

For easy typing purposes, I will let α = a = x 1 \alpha = a = x_1 , β = b = x 2 \beta = b = x_2 and γ = c = x 3 \gamma = c = x_3

f ( x ) = x 3 x 2 2 x + 1 f(x) = x^3 - x^2 - 2x + 1

f ( x ) = 3 x 2 2 x 2 f'(x) = 3x^2 - 2x - 2

f ( α ) × f ( β ) × f ( γ ) f'(\alpha) \times f'(\beta) \times f'(\gamma)

= ( 3 x 1 2 2 x 1 2 ) ( 3 x 2 2 2 x 2 2 ) ( 3 x 3 2 2 x 3 2 ) = (3x_1^2 - 2x_1 - 2)(3x_2^2 - 2x_2 - 2)(3x_3^2 - 2x_3 - 2)

= i = 1 3 ( 3 x i 2 2 x i 2 ) = \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 (3x_i^2 - 2x_i - 2)

The rest of the problem is to find this product, which is exactly the same as this question

From Vieta's formula, we get:

a + b + c = 1 a + b + c = 1

a b + a c + b c = 2 ab + ac + bc = -2

a b c = 1 abc = -1

Next, we simplify the product above by obtaining ( x i 3 x i 2 ) (x_i^3 - x_i^2) in it:

i = 1 3 ( 3 x i 2 2 x i 2 ) \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 (3x_i^2 - 2x_i - 2)

= i = 1 3 ( 3 x i 2 2 x i 2 ) ( x i 1 3 ) x i 1 3 = \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 \dfrac{(3x_i^2 - 2x_i - 2)(x_i - \dfrac{1}{3})}{x_i - \dfrac{1}{3}}

= i = 1 3 3 x i 3 3 x i 2 4 3 x i + 2 3 x i 1 3 = \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 \dfrac{3x_i^3 - 3x_i^2 - \dfrac{4}{3}x_i + \dfrac{2}{3}}{x_i - \dfrac{1}{3}}

= i = 1 3 3 ( x i 3 x i 2 ) 4 3 x i + 2 3 x i 1 3 = \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 \dfrac{3(x_i^3 - x_i^2) - \dfrac{4}{3}x_i + \dfrac{2}{3}}{x_i - \dfrac{1}{3}}

Given that x i x_i are the zeroes of the function, we get:

x i 3 x i 2 2 x i + 1 = 0 x_i^3 - x_i^2 - 2x_i + 1 = 0

x i 3 x i 2 = 2 x i 1 x_i^3 - x_i^2 = 2x_i - 1

Substitute this into the product, and we get:

i = 1 3 3 ( 2 x i 1 ) 4 3 x i + 2 3 x i 1 3 \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 \dfrac{3(2x_i - 1) - \dfrac{4}{3}x_i + \dfrac{2}{3}}{x_i - \dfrac{1}{3}}

= i = 1 3 14 3 x i 7 3 x i 1 3 = \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 \dfrac{\dfrac{14}{3}x_i - \dfrac{7}{3}}{x_i - \dfrac{1}{3}}

= i = 1 3 7 ( 2 x i 1 ) 3 x i 1 = \displaystyle \prod_{i=1}^3 \dfrac{7(2x_i - 1)}{3x_i - 1}

= 7 ( 2 a 1 ) ( 7 ) ( 2 b 1 ) ( 7 ) ( 2 c 1 ) ( 3 a 1 ) ( 3 b 1 ) ( 3 c 1 ) = \dfrac{7(2a - 1)(7)(2b - 1)(7)(2c - 1)}{(3a - 1)(3b - 1)(3c - 1)}

= 7 3 ( 8 a b c 4 b c 4 a c + 2 c 4 a b + 2 b + 2 a 1 27 a b c 9 b c 9 a c + 3 c 9 a b + 3 b + 3 a 1 ) = 7^3\left(\dfrac{8abc - 4bc - 4ac + 2c - 4ab + 2b + 2a - 1}{27abc - 9bc - 9ac + 3c - 9ab + 3b + 3a - 1}\right)

= 7 3 ( 8 a b c 4 ( a b + a c + b c ) + 2 ( a + b + c ) 1 27 a b c 9 ( a b + a c + b c ) + 3 ( a + b + c ) 1 ) = 7^3\left(\dfrac{8abc - 4 (ab + ac + bc) + 2 (a + b + c) - 1}{27abc - 9 (ab + ac + bc) + 3 (a + b + c) - 1}\right)

= 7 3 ( 8 + 8 + 2 1 27 + 18 + 3 1 ) = 7^3\left(\dfrac{-8 + 8 + 2 - 1}{-27 + 18 + 3 - 1}\right)

= 7 3 ( 1 7 ) = 7^3\left(\dfrac{1}{-7}\right)

= 7 2 = 49 = -7^2 = \boxed{-49}

Notes: This solution was obtained from the solutions of the linked question above. I didn't come up with this solution, I just took someone else's solution and applied it here. All credits go to the people who shared their solutions in the linked question.

I also have another solution in the linked question, where I fully expanded the product into an expression of 27 terms and substituted the values in. Not the best method available, but if you want to try out that method, you can refer to my solution in the linked question for details.

Respect! Your solution really helps me a lot. Thank you!

Nhan Nguyen - 5 years ago

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Glad to be of assistance :D

Hung Woei Neoh - 4 years, 11 months ago

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