A = 8 ! + 3 B = 8 ! + 4 C = 8 ! + 5 D = 8 ! + 6 E = 8 ! + 7 F = 8 ! + 8 G = 8 ! + 9 H = 8 ! + 1 0
How many of these eight numbers are prime?
For your own safety and well-being, do not use a calculator on this one!
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One thing I like is how you went ahead and expanded every letter. It's tempting to shortcut and say something like "with 8! + x, pull the x out of the factorial" but things are clearer with this layout (and 9 & 10 are more immediate). To paraphrase Einstein, chalk is cheaper than brains.
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It definitely makes it easier to see. Thanks Jason! :)
nicely explained!
It is nice how you observed this. I honestly used rules of divisibility, just became longer to solve.
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Thanks Hana! At its essence my solution uses divisibility :)
As before with the matchsticks, a puzzle is clearly explained here. Good job, Zach! Easily understood as yesterday's, and clearly proved!
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Man, thank you so much! As promised :)
Great job! Keep on posting solutions like these!
The solution is correct, but we could do without the comment at the end which says:"if a N and b | N, then a +/ b |N. If so, 3|12 and 4|12, but 7 does not. Ed Gray
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Ah, sorry about that! I got mixed up: it should be backwards. I'll edit that part right now :) Thanks!
6 - I forgot about 6 - Augh!
8! is divisible by 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10
So 8! plus any of those numbers is also divisible by 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10
divisible by 9?
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8!=
=1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 * 7 * 8 =
=1 * 2 * 4 * 5 * 7 * 8 * (3 * 6)=
=1 * 2 * 4 * 5 * 7 * 8 * (2 * 9)
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36 is 2*9? what?
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@Alex Wang – Brilliant.org eliminates asterisk sign.
Read my comment as if there are asterisks between numbers
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@Nikita Mahilewets – Please use L A T E X . 8 ! = 1 ⋅ 2 ⋅ 3 ⋅ 4 ⋅ 5 ⋅ 6 ⋅ 7 ⋅ 8 = 1 ⋅ 2 ⋅ 4 ⋅ 5 ⋅ 7 ⋅ 8 ⋅ ( 3 ⋅ 6 ) = 1 ⋅ 2 ⋅ 4 ⋅ 5 ⋅ 7 ⋅ 8 ⋅ ( 2 ⋅ 9 )
@Nikita Mahilewets – oh i get it
Nice and simple.
How can we conclude that 8!+1 is no prime??
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I don't know Yes there is a mistake There is no need to consider 1 and 2 Statement does not asks for 1 and 2 8!+1 looks really like a prime Thanks I will correct my post
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n = 8 ! + 1 = 4 0 3 2 1
Now we check all prime numbers p where p 2 ≤ n until we find one which divides n or we run out of possible p 's.
It turns out that 6 1 is the smallest p dividing n , and thus n is not prime. □
8! is divisible by every one the numbers added when the result can be factored n( x + 1) where nx = 8!. Clearly not prime.
3..8 are obviously direct factors of 8!.
9 is found in 3 x 6 , 10 is found in 2 x 5.
For the last line, you only need 3|9 and 2|10 or 5|10. For instance 4!+10 is not prime since 2|10, it doesn’t matter that you cannot "find" 2×5.
very unclear solution
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Still ticked about that exchange the other day when you persisted with that 2,3,6 business that did not even meet the stated condition of the problem, and published your own inferior version of my proof? Why don't you go away if you have nothing of value to contribute? What I have here is simple, and complete, in plain language when a heap of symbols are not of benefit.
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i don't need your recommendation to stay here.the solution looked unclear ,so i commented. if you were a gentleman you would have never answer in this way. so, many people commented on my problems but i answered all of them nicely.if you don't know manner just stay away from this brilliant site.
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@Mohammad Khaza – You have yet to admit your original post on my other solution was completely off base, as if you did not actually read it, and that is reflected in your version of it elsewhere. Your motivation here seems to be continued petty annoyance and nothing more, and I am rude enough to point it out. Consider yourself an adequately fed troll.
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@Robert DeLisle – thanks. you comment opened my eyes!!! he he.
good thinking.
Just thinking through this logically, we know that 8! is a multiple of 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. So A, B, C, D, E, and F cannot possibly be prime, since they are just adding one more of something that is already a factor of 8!.
Utilizing that same logic, we can rule out G and H. 9 is a multiple of 3, so adding 9 to a number that is already a multiple of 3 can't be prime. 10 is a multiple of 5, so adding 10 to a number that is already a multiple of 5 can't be prime.
It can't be possible in all ways such that if 4!+5,then according to your concept. Think it
Because 8! = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 x 7 x 8, we can add the numbers 1 through 8, or any multiple thereof, to 8! and still have it be a multiple of that specific number. 9 is simply adding 3 to 8! three times whereas 10 is simply adding 2 to 8! 5 times, both of which work according to the prior sentence. Thus none of them are prime.
How would you show that 8 ! + 1 is or isn't a prime number?
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One would not be able to do so by the above logic, as the number would still be divisible by 1 yet could still be prime. Thankfully, this is not required in this problem, and neither, interestingly enough, is 8! + 2.
So we know that 8 ! = 8 × 7 × 6 × 5 × 4 × 3 × 2 × 1 . This can be rewritten as 8 ! = 2 6 × 3 2 × 5 × 7 . Also, 8 ! is an even number. We remove the letters that add an even number as Even + Even = Even, therefore, it's divisible by 2 . The letters removed are B, D, F and H. The remaining 4 letters aren't prime as you can take out the respective factor. The general equation is x ( x 8 ! + 1 ) for the remaining letters. For A, C, E and G you make x equal to 3 , 5 , 7 , 3 2 respectively.
Tip: Use \times 1 × 2 or \cdot 1 ⋅ 2 instead or asterisk 1 ∗ 2 in L A T E X .
Every factorial number after 5! ends with digit zero, therefore C and H must not be primes, because adding 0 with 5 would end up with a number divisible by 5 (not prime), and adding 0 with 0 would end up with a number divisible by 10 (not prime).
Therefore B, D, and F are definitely even numbers, divisible by 2 (not prime).
A, E, and G remain. But, since 8! = 8 x 7 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1, A is not prime (because 3 is one of its factor), E is not a prime as well (because 7 is one of its factor too), and then G is not a prime too (because 3 and "2x3" or 6 are two of its factor, therefore it's divisible by 9).
After these three steps: None of them are prime numbers.
Each one of them can be factorised easily enough. Up to 8 ! + 8 , this is done by taking out the number added. For example:
8 ! + 3 = 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 + 3 = 3 ( 2 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 + 1 )
In the final two, this can be done by factoring out factors of the numbers added.
8 ! + 9 = 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 + 9 = 3 ( 2 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 + 3 )
and
8 ! + 1 0 = 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 + 3 = 1 0 ( 4 × 6 × 7 × 8 + 1 )
So none of the numbers are prime.
Incidentally, for the next number in the sequence 8 ! + 1 1 , the same arguments can't be made as 11 does not feature in the factorial and is prime.
Use the fact, if d | a and d | b, then d | (a + b). Since 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 | 8!, it follows that 3 | A, 4 | B, 5 | C, 6 | D,
7 | E, 8 } F. So A, B, C, D, E, F are composite. Note 3 | 8!, 3 | 9, then 3 | G, also 2 | 8!, 2 | 10, then 2 | H.
So also G and H are also composite.
Good solution, but I have a tip for you:
Learn to use L A T E X to make your solutions look more beautiful and professional.
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Hello, I already know to use Latex, thanks, for your comment.
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Then why not rewrite this using L A T E X ? :)
Thanks, maybe next time.
Let us check the statement that: for any positive integer n from 2 to 1 0 , 8 ! + n is divisible by n .
Consider the divisors of 6 ! , or 7 2 0 . It can be factorised into ( 2 4 ) ( 3 2 ) ( 5 ) . From this, we can conclude that for the integers from 2 to 1 0 , only 7 is not a factor. We can verify this by checking the powers of 2 that are ≤ 4 : 1 , 2 , 4 , 8 , powers of 3 that are ≤ 2 : 1 , 3 , 9 , as well as 2 ∗ 3 and 2 ∗ 5 .
Now, 7 ∗ 6 ! or 7 ! has the same divisors as 6 ! , but with 7 added (and a few more others). Therefore, 7 ! is divisible by the numbers from 2 to 1 0 , and it follows that any multiple of 7 ! , including 8 ∗ 7 ! or 8 ! also satisfy this property.
Since 8 ! + n is divisible by an n which are not 1 or 8 ! + n , it doesn't satisfy the definition of a prime. Therefore, there are no numbers in the list which are prime.
A = 8 ! + 3 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 3 = 4 0 3 2 3 ............[ this is not a prime as summation of its digits(4+0+3+2+3=12) is divided by 3 ]
B = 8 ! + 4 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 4 = 4 0 3 2 4 ............[ simply divided by 2, so this is not a prime ]
C = 8 ! + 5 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 5 = 4 0 3 2 5 ............[ simply divided by 5, so it is not a prime ]
D = 8 ! + 6 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 6 = 4 0 3 2 6 ...........[ simply divided by 2, so this is not a prime ]
E = 8 ! + 7 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 7 = 4 0 3 2 7 ...........[( 7 4 0 3 2 7 = 5 7 6 1 , so, it is not a prime also ]
F = 8 ! + 8 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 8 = 4 0 3 2 8 ...........[ simply divided by 2, so this is not a prime ]
G = 8 ! + 9 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 9 = 4 0 3 2 9 ..........[ this is not a prime as summation of its digits(4+0+3+2+9=18) is divided by 3 ]
H = 8 ! + 1 0 = 4 0 3 2 0 + 1 0 = 4 0 3 3 0 .......[ simply divided by 2, so this is not a prime ]
so, there is no prime number
It is needless to calculate the actual numerical values of the numbers because you can check divisibility more quickly from the original form.
For example 7 ∣ 8 ! + 7 because 7 ∣ 7 and 7 ∣ 8 ! . ( 8 ! = 1 ⋅ … ⋅ 7 ⋅ 8 )
Much easier than calculating the value of 8 ! + 7 and then dividing it by 7, or using the divisibility rule of 7 .
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he he i knew that someone will ask about that....i did that just for fun
You are ignoring ''For your own safety and well-being, do not use a calculator on this one!''.
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Actually, it is quite easy (but unnecessary) to do it in your head.
You are just multiplying number repeatedly by single digit numbers which is not hard and adding two numbers in your head is also easy.
2 6 2 4 1 2 0 7 2 0 5 0 4 0 4 0 3 2 0 = 2 ⋅ 1 = 3 ⋅ 2 = 4 ⋅ 6 = 5 ⋅ 2 4 = 6 ⋅ 1 2 0 = 7 ⋅ 7 2 0 = 8 ⋅ 5 0 4 0
Some people, like me, even have some of the factorials memorized because of repeated use, so I didn't even need to calculate the value of 8 ! .
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Okay then , but how can you identify the prime numbers in your head? It is known that except 2, all prime numbers are odd.
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@Munem Shahriar – if all the prime numbers were even, then they were simply divided by 2.
@Munem Shahriar – 4 0 3 2 7 ≡ 3 5 0 0 0 + 5 3 2 7 ≡ 4 9 0 0 + 4 2 7 ≡ 4 2 0 + 7 ≡ 0 ( m o d 7 )
or
4 0 3 2 7 ≡ 4 0 3 2 0 ≡ 1 0 ⋅ 4 0 3 2 ≡ 1 0 ⋅ 4 ⋅ 1 0 0 8 ≡ 4 0 ⋅ 8 ⋅ 1 2 6 ≡ 3 2 0 ⋅ 2 ⋅ 6 3 ≡ 6 4 0 ⋅ 7 ⋅ 9 ≡ 0 ( m o d 7 )
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@Jesse Nieminen – that is very nice trick, thanks for sharing that
OBVIOUSLY IT WAS POSSIBLE WITHOUT CALCULATOR.
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But it seems you have used a calculator.
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@Munem Shahriar – yeah i have used calculator in this.i was trying to make a new looking solution. but that went in vein. anyway, did you participate in BAF shaheen science fest 2017? i thjink i have heard your name.
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@Mohammad Khaza – I think it was a similar name, I am not participating.
8! is divisible by all the numbers 1 to 8 Not prime(duh) Divisible by 9 because 3*6 is divisible by 9 Divisible by 10 since 285 is 10 if you add anything between 1 and 10 to it it is still divisible by that number
(think about it)
Yes, 1 ∣ 8 ! + 1 , but does that make it non-prime?
8!=41320.
Then,
8!+3=41323
8!+4=41324
8!+5=41325
8!+6=41326
8!+7=41327
8!+8=41328
8!+9=41329
8!+10=41330
+4, 6, 8, 10 have to be composite because if you add an even number to an even number, it the sum is also an even number; so it is divisible by 2.
+3 is not prime because 41323 is divisible by 31.
+5 is composite because 41325 is divisible by 5.
+7 is also composite because it is divisible by 11.
Finally, +9 is not prime because divisible by 37.
So, ALL of the numbers are composite;
NONE of them are prime.
Suppose the answer is not 0 . Then we have to show that at a number greater than 8 ! is prime. There is no elegant way to do this other than by brute force. Hence from a question setter's point of view, no answer other than 0 makes sense.
In our problem n and k are non-negative integers :
N = n ! + k where n = 8 and 3 ≤ k ≤ 1 0
n ! = 8 ! = 8 x 7 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1
In eqns B, D, F and H, k is even, multiply by 2 / 2
N = 2 [8 ! + k ] / 2
2 is a factor of N, 8 ! and k Therefore N is non-prime where k is even
In eqns A, C, E and G, k is odd, multiply by corresponding k / k
N = k [8 ! + k ] / k
since k is a factor of N, 8 ! and k , therefore N is non-prime where k is odd
In general,
N = n ! + k where n = 8 and 3 ≤ k ≤ 1 0
since k is a factor of N, n ! and k , therefore N is non-prime for n = 8 and 3 ≤ k ≤ 1 0
The answer is 0
Each expression has a factor of 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 respectively In some sense factorials are extremely composite
It is not trivial that 8 ! is divisible by 9 and 1 0 , this must be explicitly checked.
8!+N= 8!/N*(1+N) where N is 3 to 10. 8!/N is an integer number, therefore the result is dividable by (1+N) and not a prime. 8! is dividable by 9 and 10 (not included in 8!)
All primes (except 2 and 3) are equal to 6n + 1 so the only candidate that meets this criteria in E = 8! + 7. But 7 is already a factor of 8! so adding seven to it yields a number also divisible by 7.
... all primes (except 2 and 3) are of the form 6n ± 1 ...
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Meaning that case
C
must also be checked explicitly.
Also, when using such lemma it would be good to give a proof or use a well-known theorem to back it up.
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Interpreting this statement can be misleading ... just because a number may be of the form 6n ± 1 does not necessarily make it a prime (i.e. 49 = 6•8 + 1 and is not prime). Every prime number (with the exceptions of 2 and 3) may be represented in the form 6n ± 1. This statement should be accompanied by proof or a citation. The proof is fairly simple: every number may be represented in one of the forms: 6n, 6n+1, 6n+2, 6n+3, 6n+4 or 6n+5 (i.e. modulus 6 arithmetic, Note that 6n+5 is equivalent to 6(n+1) – 1 which is the same as having form 6n–1.). Numbers of the form 6n, 6n+2, 6n+3 and 6n+4 cannot be prime because of the obvious factors of 2 or 3. This leaves only numbers of the form 6n±1 which includes all of the primes except 2 and 3.
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@David Hairston – I know the proof. I only said that because the mistake of stating that all primes except 2 and 3 are of form 6 n + 1 could've been avoided here by trying to prove it and noticing that e.g. 5 and 1 1 are exceptions.
Let's generalize the problem a little bit. Let n and k be non-negative integers.
I claim that n ! + k cannot be a prime number if k has a divisor d such that 1 < d ≤ n .
Proof is simple because by definition d ∣ k and since n ! = 1 ⋅ 2 ⋅ … ⋅ d ⋅ … ⋅ n , d ∣ n ! , meaning that d ∣ n ! + k , but clearly d < n ! + k , so there exists a positive integer a greater than 1 such that d a = n ! + k .
Now, n ! + k cannot be prime because it is divisible by 1 , a , d , a d and since 1 < a , d < a d it has at least 3 different positive divisors meaning that it cannot be a prime.
Using the theorem above we can easily conclude that none of the numbers are prime because the corresponding k all have at least one divisor d such that 1 < d ≤ 8 .
Hence, the answer is 0 .
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We know that 8 ! = 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 , so we can write these numbers as the following:
A B C D E F G H = 3 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 ) + 1 ] = 4 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 3 × 5 × 6 × 7 × 8 ) + 1 ] = 5 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 6 × 7 × 8 ) + 1 ] = 6 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 7 × 8 ) + 1 ] = 7 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 8 ) + 1 ] = 8 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 3 × 4 × 5 × 6 × 7 ) + 1 ] = 9 × [ ( 1 × 2 × 4 × 5 × 2 × 7 × 8 ) + 1 ] = 1 0 × [ ( 1 × 3 × 4 × 6 × 7 × 8 ) + 1 ] 9 = 3 ⋅ 3 = 3 ⋅ 2 6 1 0 = 2 × 5
It is clear that 0 of them are prime.
Note that this a specific case of the following theorem:
If a ∣ M and a ∣ N , then a ∣ M ± N .