76 of 100: Daredevil Fly

Algebra Level 1

Two trains, each traveling at a speed of 100 km / h , \SI[per-mode=symbol]{100}{\kilo\meter\per\hour}, are headed towards each other on a straight track. At the exact moment the trains are 300 km \SI{300}{km} apart, a super-fast fly on the front of one train begins flying back and forth between the two trains at a speed of 150 km / h . \SI{150}{km/h}.

What is the total distance the fly will have traveled before getting crushed between the trains?

There is a very simple way to calculate how far the fly flies, so think carefully!

200 kilometers 225 kilometers 250 kilometers 275 kilometers 300 kilometers 450 kilometers

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29 solutions

Saswata Naha
Aug 14, 2017

The two train will collide after 300/(100+100)=3/2 hours.

Therefore the fly move at this time with constant speed 150 km / hr .

Therefore total distance = 150×3/2=225 km

Oh dear...poor fly...am I the only one that feels sorry for the fly? And won't the trains crash, has anyone even considered that?

I know that it wasn't the purpose for this question though...

William Huang - 3 years, 9 months ago

Is there an easy way to find out how many times will the fly change directions?

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 9 months ago

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Great question, since the fly flies faster than the trains then it will have to change an infinite number of times. To see this, imagine any given time when the fly has just reached the train, it instantly turns around and starts fly towards the other train. Because the fly moves faster than either train it will always reach the other train before they collide and the situation is simply repeated, the only difference is that with each iteration the trains get closer and closer, but the fly always has enough time to make another trip before they collide.

This does bring up an interesting question of how the problem would change if we introduced a delay in the fly turning around, say even half a second.

Daniel Branscombe - 3 years, 9 months ago

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I see. If the size of the fly is zero, then it changes directions infinitely many times. If the size of the fly is finite non-zero, then it is not easy to find the number of times it turns.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 9 months ago

Using ideal approximations to model the real world can be tricky ... if the fly is considered a massless point (i.e. no spatial dimensions) then there is an infinite number of direction changes needed. Anything less than ideal enables a number solution to your question! For example, let's agree that the fly is still massless, but instead of a point, it is a line segment of length 1 millimeter (in the direction of travel). We might also then make the stipulation that the fly will stop changing directions when the trains are a mere millimeter apart. For the faint of heart, we can still consider the trains to be massless points, so no one or nothing will be damaged when the trains eventually collide. The calculation, in this case, is admittedly cumbersome but doable and your answer, under these conditions, could be considered the lower limit for how many direction changes are needed by the fly.

Another interesting question: how long does it take to count to infinity?

David Hairston - 3 years, 9 months ago

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Nice food for thought. In order to be able to count to infinity in finite time, the speed of counting should be able to go up to infinity in finite time, for which the rate of increase of speed should be able to go to infinity in finite time. Continuing this logic, all further derivatives should be able to go to infinity in finite time.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 9 months ago

I think there is a problem?... THE FLY will not fly for constant speed of 150 km/hr ... It is faster than the train so first it will strike the train and then will be carried back at speed of 100 km/hr

Ankit Hatria - 3 years, 9 months ago

1st upvote is from me for good solution

avik das - 3 years, 9 months ago
Eric S
Aug 14, 2017

Instead of counting the number of times the bee flies in the other direction, we take the information that the fly flies at a constant speed. Because there are two trains, they will cover the 300 km in 1.5 hours. The fly may fly back and forth a lot of times, but it flies for 1.5 hours overall. Because the fly flies at 150 km per hour for 1.5 hours, he flies a distance of 150 km 1.5 = 225 km 150\text{ km} \cdot 1.5 = \boxed{225 \text{ km}} .

excellent intuition.

Mike Pannekoek - 3 years, 5 months ago
Kevin Tran
Aug 14, 2017

d = v t d = v ( 300 k m 100 k m / h + 100 k m / h ) d = v ( 1.5 h ) d = ( 150 k m / h ) ( 1.5 h ) d = 225 k m d=vt\\ d=v(\frac { 300km }{ 100km/h+100km/h } )\\ \\ d=v(1.5h)\\ \\ d=(150km/h)(1.5h)\\ \\ d=225km

True, except it should be "s" for speed, not "v" for velocity since the fly can change direction.

C Smith - 3 years, 9 months ago
Zach Abueg
Aug 14, 2017

Relevant wiki: Geometric Progression Sum

Consider the fly's first trip, when it reaches the second train:

150 t = 300 100 t t 1 = 6 5 d 1 = 150 t 1 = 180 (1) \begin{aligned} 150t & = 300 - 100t \tag{1} \\ t_1 & = \frac 65 \\ \implies d_1 & = 150t_1 = 180 \end{aligned}

It then turns around and reaches the first train again when

180 150 t = 120 + 100 t t 2 = 6 25 d 2 = 150 t 2 = 36 (2) \begin{aligned} 180 - 150t & = 120 + 100t \tag{2} \\ t_2 & = \frac{6}{25} \\ \implies d_2 & = 150t_2 = 36 \end{aligned}

Continuing, the total distance traveled by the fly is given by summing the series

S d = 150 n = 1 6 5 n = 225 S_d = 150\sum_{n \ = \ 1}^{\infty} \frac{6}{5^n} = \boxed{225}

By using brute force, we gained an intuition that the fly's trip can be modeled by a geometric series - the same intuition that tells us that an elastic bouncy ball with a constant height ratio will also follow a geometric series.

Roy McDonald
Aug 15, 2017

Fermi supposedly heard this problem at a cocktail party. He thought for a couple of seconds and replied with the right answer. The puzzle poser replied, "Very nice Professor! Usually men of your intellect try to solve this using infinite series." Fermi, surprised, "You mean there is another way?"

Yes, I heard Von Neumann too

Aravind Mani - 3 years, 9 months ago

And I heard it told about von Neumann. The problem was supposedly posed to him to test whether he thought like a physicist (who would use the simple calculation) or a mathematician (who would sum the infinite series).

Stephen Garland - 3 years, 9 months ago

Probably all apocrophal now that I think about it.

Roy McDonald - 3 years, 9 months ago

Good story, but I thought it was Feynman... I may be wrong.

Florin Naiche - 3 years, 9 months ago

This problem is animal crulety

alex wang - 3 years, 9 months ago
S. Chen
Aug 15, 2017

The fly is constantly flying until the two trains collide. To find the distance the fly travels, one would just multiply its speed by the time until the trains collide. The two trains both travel at the constant speed of 100 kmph, and are 300 km apart, so each train would have to travel 150 km to collide. That takes 150/100 = 3/2 hours. Multiplying that by the fly's speed, 3/2 * 150 = 225 kilometers.

Shawn Godin
Aug 15, 2017

The relative speed of the trains is 200 km/h, so the ratio of the distance travelled by the trains (total) to the distance travelled by the fly is 200 : 150 = 4:3 = 300 : 225. Hence the fly travelled 225 km.

Brendan Preece
Aug 16, 2017

Considering each lap traversed by the fly, with each respective time interval decreasing the remaining inter-train distance by 200km/hr * time interval elapsed by the fly:

Δ x n = 300 200 ( k = 0 n 1 Δ t k ) \Delta x_n = 300 - 200(\sum_{k=0}^{n-1} \Delta t_k) = 300 200 150 ( k = 0 n 1 Δ x k ) = 300 - \frac{200}{150}(\sum_{k=0}^{n-1} \Delta x_k)

The distance between the trains is monotone function of time and achieves its low bound value of 0 after some finite time (composed of the union of many time intervals). Δ x n \Delta x_n represents the remaining distance between the trains after n n time intervals. The fly will need to travel an infinite number of reversals because at each reversal there will always be an vanishingly small residue of distance to cover.

Therefore:

lim n Δ x n = 0 \lim_{n \to \infty} \Delta x_n = 0

lim n k = 0 n 1 Δ x k S \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} \Delta x_k \triangleq S

Taking limits of both sides:

0 = 300 200 150 S n 0 = 300 - \frac{200}{150} S_n S = 300 150 200 = 225 \implies S = \frac{300\cdot 150}{200} = 225

Josh Taylor
Aug 15, 2017

The problem can also be done as the sum of an infinite series of distances.

The first distance the fly travel before turning around is 180 km. The second is 36 km. The third is 36/5 km. This continues with a common ratio of 1/5. We can sum the series with first term 180 km and r=1/5.

Total distance = 180 km /(1-1/5)

Total distance = 180 km/ (4/5)

Total distance = 180 km (5/4)

Total distance = 225 km

More complicated than the other way, but interesting.

Sam Adams
Aug 15, 2017

This is a classic - first time I remember seeing it I was a grad student reading about Von Neumann. As the story goes, when the question was posed to him he immediately gave the right answer but when someone commented that it was interesting that he saw the shortcut rather than attempting to sum the infinite series, Von Neumann replied that he did sum the series.

The trains will crash in the km 150.

It'll take 1,5h at 100km/h for each train to get there.

The fly will fly for 1,5h travelling 1,5*150= 225km

Ashfaq Tasin
Jan 20, 2018

Look at the informations given. At first if you wish to start from bee, stop, look from a different view, notice that bee's speed is constant.
So, at first, count the time needed for collition- as both the trains are at same speed of 100km/hr, and the distant is 300km, so they will collide aftergoing 300/2 or 150 km. At speed of 100 km/hr, it will take150/100 or 3/2 hour.

At speed of 150 km/hr, in 3/2 hour the bee will fly- (150*3/2) km = 225 km

CAN'T THE RAIL DRIVERS NOTICE THE BEE AND STOP THE ACCIDENT???

Dhruv Sahu
Aug 16, 2017

let the two train be A and B vA=100km/hr vB=-100km/hr.. relative velocity,vAB=vA-vB =100-(-100) =200km/h :d=300Km time taken to collide=200/300 =2/3h :distance travel by robo fly=150/2/3 =150*3/2 =225Km

Engr Naveed
Aug 16, 2017

relative velocity of the two train is 200 Km so the trains will collide after duration 90 min (1 and half hour). In this duration the distance covered by the bee is 150 km /hr *1.5 hr which comes out 225 Km.

Daniel Pena
Aug 15, 2017

What Saswata said! :)

The distance between the two trains is shrinking at a rate of 200km/h, so the initial distance (300km) will be zero after one hour and a half. So basically the fly will keep on flying for the same period of time until it crushes. Which is to say: d = 1.5 hours x 150 km/h = 225 km.

Julian Grey
Aug 15, 2017

an object traveling at a constant rate of speed will,in an hour and a half, travel a distance equal to one and half times the speed at which it is traveling.

Gabby Tatatoui
Aug 15, 2017

The trains will crash in an hour and a half, in one hour the fly goes 150 km per hour, half of 150 km = 75 km. So 150 km + 75 km = 225 km. the answer is 225 km.

Syrous Marivani
Aug 15, 2017

The two trains reach other after 1/2(300/100) = 1.5 hours. The fly travels the distance between the two trains in 300/150 = 2 hours. Since 2 > 1.5, the fly can not travel the total distance between the trains but it will travel only 150(1.5) = 225 km before it gets crushed by the trains.

Terry Townsend
Aug 15, 2017

The trains collide when the sum of their distances equals the 300 miles. So, add up their distances and solve for t (time). Then calculate the distance the fly flew in this amount of time. t=1.5 hours. the fly's rate (150) x time (1.5)=225.

M Weddell
Aug 15, 2017

The trains will collide after each has travelled... 300 miles / 2 = 150 miles

This will take the trains... 150miles / 100 mph = 1.5 hours

During this time, the super-fast fly will travel back and forth a distance of 150mph x 1.5 hours = 225 miles

Edwin Gray
Aug 15, 2017

The trains will collide in 1.5 hours, during which the fly traveled at 150 x1.5 hr. = 225. Ed Gray

Hana Wehbi
Aug 15, 2017

The two trains will meet each other in 3 hours (300 km, and each is traveling at 100 km/hour),

so the fly is flying for:

d i s t a n c e = r a t e × t i m e d = 3 2 × 150 = 225. distance= rate \times time \implies d= \frac{3}{2}\times 150 = 225.

for a distance of 225 km.

Stefano Gallenda
Aug 15, 2017

The two trains will collide in the middle, because they have the same speed, so each train will travel for 150km.

At 100km/h will take 1.5 h.

At 150km/h in 1.5h the fly will travel for 225km.

Nikita Mahilewets
Aug 14, 2017

The puzzle is SO OLD

That I knew the answer immediately

Even John von Neumann knows that puzzle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DkXXOGtVDU

Kevin Tran - 3 years, 9 months ago

This is not a solution.

Zach Abueg - 3 years, 9 months ago

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Please explain why

More precisely

My solution was "knowing the answer beforehand"

Obviously, it doesn't work if the problem is some kind of new problem

But here we have 100 years old riddle

Nikita Mahilewets - 3 years, 9 months ago

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Nikita, that is more of a comment. I understand that you may have seen this problem from your birth in the dinosaur age, but providing a solution entails proving why the answer is the answer.

Zach Abueg - 3 years, 9 months ago

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@Zach Abueg The answer is right because I have used the formula from a source

Where that formula was proven

Nikita Mahilewets - 3 years, 9 months ago

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@Nikita Mahilewets Precisely: there was no problem solving on your part, only the use of another source. Therefore, there was no need in the first place to post a solution.

Zach Abueg - 3 years, 9 months ago

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@Zach Abueg I have computed the answer for those particular instance of the problem

Nikita Mahilewets - 3 years, 9 months ago

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@Nikita Mahilewets Okay, then good. What I am saying is that you don't need to post a "solution" which essentially boasts "I've seen this problem before, and solved it to accommodate its modifications." The purpose of a solution is to enlighten people how the problem was solved, how its calculations were made, why certain steps were taken, etc.

Zach Abueg - 3 years, 9 months ago

So I have right answer

I have just described how I have got it

Nikita Mahilewets - 3 years, 9 months ago
Ravneet Singh
Aug 14, 2017

Relative speed of two trains = 100 + 100 = 200 = 100 +100 = 200 , as they are moving in opposite directions. Since the distance between the trains is 300 km, so collision will occur after 300 200 = 1.5 \dfrac{300}{200} = 1.5 hrs. And during this entire time this super-fast fly keep on flying at the speed of 150 km/hr. So total distance = 150 × 1.5 = 225 150 \times 1.5 = \boxed{225}

Steven Chase
Aug 14, 2017

From the Wikipedia excerpt on John von Neumann :

Halmos recounts a story told by Nicholas Metropolis, concerning the speed of von Neumann's calculations, when somebody asked von Neumann to solve the famous fly puzzle:[169]

Two bicyclists start 20 miles apart and head toward each other, each going at a steady rate of 10 mph. At the same time a fly that travels at a steady 15 mph starts from the front wheel of the southbound bicycle and flies to the front wheel of the northbound one, then turns around and flies to the front wheel of the southbound one again, and continues in this manner till he is crushed between the two front wheels. Question: what total distance did the fly cover? The slow way to find the answer is to calculate what distance the fly covers on the first, northbound, leg of the trip, then on the second, southbound, leg, then on the third, etc., etc., and, finally, to sum the infinite series so obtained. The quick way is to observe that the bicycles meet exactly one hour after their start, so that the fly had just an hour for his travels; the answer must therefore be 15 miles. When the question was put to von Neumann, he solved it in an instant, and thereby disappointed the questioner: "Oh, you must have heard the trick before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann, "All I did was sum the geometric series."

Raymond Y
Aug 14, 2017

Since the mosquito is traveling for the same amount of time as the trains, we just multiply 150 150 km/h by 300 100 ( 100 ) \frac{300}{100-(-100)} . We therefore get 150 1.5 = 225 150 \cdot 1.5 =225 km.

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