Disc and Flux in a lane

A disc contains 1 C 1C charge and is uniformly distributed all over the disk surface and is placed at x = 0 , y 2 + z 2 1 x=0,y^{2}+z^{2}≤1 Find the electric flux passing through the surface x = 1 , y 2 + z 2 1 x=1, y^{2}+z^{2}≤1 I have provided the view of system from Y -Y direction Inspiration Details and Assumptions 1) Electric permittivity ϵ 0 = 1 \epsilon_{0}=1


The answer is 0.116.

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2 solutions

Karan Chatrath
Mar 29, 2020

Consider a point on the charged surface:

r 1 = ( 0 , r 1 cos α , r 1 sin α ) \vec{r}_1 = \left(0,r_1 \cos{\alpha},r_1 \sin{\alpha}\right)

Consider an elementary charge on that surface around this point which is:

d Q = r 1 d r 1 d α π dQ = \frac{r_1 \ dr_1 \ d\alpha}{\pi}

Consider a point on the second surface:

r 2 = ( 1 , r 2 cos β , r 2 sin β ) \vec{r}_2 = \left(1,r_2 \cos{\beta},r_2 \sin{\beta}\right)

A surface area element on this surface is:

d S = r 2 d r 2 d β i ^ d\vec{S} = r_2 \ dr_2 \ d\beta \hat{i}

Electric field due to the elementary charge is:

d E = d Q 4 π ( r 2 r 1 r 2 r 1 3 ) d\vec{E} = \frac{dQ}{4 \pi}\left(\frac{\vec{r}_2 -\vec{r}_1}{\lvert \vec{r}_2 -\vec{r}_1 \rvert^3}\right)

Elementary flux is:

d ϕ = d E d S d\phi = d\vec{E} \cdot d\vec{S}

This simplifies to:

d ϕ = 1 4 π 2 ( r 1 r 2 d r 1 d α d r 2 d β ( 1 + ( r 2 cos β r 1 cos α ) 2 + ( r 2 sin β r 1 sin α ) 2 ) 1.5 ) d\phi = \frac{1}{4 \pi^2}\left(\frac{r_1 \ r_2 \ dr_1 \ d\alpha \ dr_2 \ d\beta}{\left(1 + \left(r_2 \cos{\beta}-r_1 \cos{\alpha}\right)^2+\left(r_2 \sin{\beta}-r_1 \sin{\alpha}\right)^2\right)^{1.5}}\right)

ϕ = 1 4 π 2 0 1 0 1 0 2 π 0 2 π r 1 r 2 d r 1 d r 2 d α d β ( 1 + ( r 2 cos β r 1 cos α ) 2 + ( r 2 sin β r 1 sin α ) 2 ) 1.5 \phi = \frac{1}{4 \pi^2}\int_{0}^{1} \int_{0}^{1} \int_{0}^{2 \pi} \int_{0}^{2 \pi} \frac{r_1 \ r_2 \ dr_1 \ dr_2 \ d\alpha \ d\beta}{\left(1 + \left(r_2 \cos{\beta}-r_1 \cos{\alpha}\right)^2+\left(r_2 \sin{\beta}-r_1 \sin{\alpha}\right)^2\right)^{1.5}}

Code attached below. Here, w = r 1 w = r_1 , x = r 2 x = r_2 , y = α y = \alpha , z = β z = \beta .

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clear all
clc

% Numerical resoloution
dw = 1/200;
dx = 1/200;
dy = (2*pi)/200;
dz = (2*pi)/200;
I = 0;

for w = 0:dw:1
    for x = 0:dx:1
        for y = 0:dy:2*pi
            for z = 0:dz:2*pi

                % Numerator:
                N = (w*x*dw*dx*dy*dz);

                % Denominator:
                D = (1 + (w*cos(y) - x*cos(z))^2 + (w*sin(y) - x*sin(z))^2)^1.5;

                % Integrand:
                dI = N/D;

                % Integration:
                I  = I + dI;

            end
        end
    end
end


Answer = I/(4*pi^2)

Nice solution. I have solved it with triple integration because if you take a circular elementary washer at ring by going a random distance x the electric field due to a particular ring in disc at that all point is same. That way leads to triple integration. . I have uploaded a new question on moment of inertia https://brilliant.org/problems/expected-moment-part-3/

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath i have copied your code to brilliant coding environment and here the code is not running. Can you help me in identifying the mistake??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath Sir I was running this code in my laptop in sublime text editor version 3.2.2 . I copied you code and the code was not running. Can you please tell me where is the problem??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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The code is not typed in the Python language. In fact, my codes will not run in the Brilliant coding environment.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago
Steven Chase
Mar 28, 2020

Nice problem. This one ends up being a quadruple integral. Given that these are disks, I recommend describing the surfaces as y 2 + z 2 1 y^2 + z^2 \leq 1

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import math

# Constants

N = 200

e0 = 1.0
Q = 1.0
R = 1.0

k = 1.0/(4.0*math.pi*e0)

A = math.pi*(R**2.0)
sigma = Q/A

##################################

dr1 = R/N
dtheta1 = 2.0*math.pi/N

dr2 = R/N
dtheta2 = 2.0*math.pi/N

##################################

# Object 1 is the charge disk
# Object 2 is the test disk

phi = 0.0

nx = 1.0
ny = 0.0
nz = 0.0

r1 = 0.0

while r1 <= R:

    theta1 = 0.0

    while theta1 <= 2.0*math.pi:

        x1 = 0.0
        y1 = r1*math.cos(theta1)
        z1 = r1*math.sin(theta1)

        dA1 = r1*dr1*dtheta1
        dq1 = dA1 * sigma

        r2 = 0.0

        while r2 <= R:

            theta2 = 0.0

            while theta2 <= 2.0*math.pi:

                x2 = 1.0
                y2 = r2*math.cos(theta2)
                z2 = r2*math.sin(theta2)

                dA2 = r2*dr2*dtheta2

                Dx = x2 - x1
                Dy = y2 - y1
                Dz = z2 - z1

                D = math.sqrt(Dx**2.0 + Dy**2.0 + Dz**2.0)

                ux = Dx/D
                uy = Dy/D
                uz = Dz/D

                E = k*dq1/(D**2.0)

                Ex = E * ux
                Ey = E * uy
                Ez = E * uz

                dot = Ex*nx + Ey*ny + Ez*nz

                dphi = dot * dA2

                phi = phi + dphi


                theta2 = theta2 + dtheta2

            r2 = r2 + dr2

        theta1 = theta1 + dtheta1

    r1 = r1 + dr1

##################################

print N
print phi

#>>> 
#100
#0.116629970353
#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#200
#0.116370400456
#>>> 

I observe different results. On taking N = 100 N=100 , I get ϕ 0.1203 \phi \approx 0.1203 and on taking N = 200 N = 200 , I get ϕ 0.1182 \phi \approx 0.1182 . Given that a quadruple integral is to be solved, I find it strange that the results are so different from yours. Of-course the programming style is different but that shouldn't affect the numerics as the integration technique is similar to what you did. I will post my solution soon.

As for the problem statement, I would recommend that apart from the surface definitions, the phrasing of the charge distribution needs to be made clearer. It should be mentioned that 'the charge is uniformly distributed all over the disk surface'.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Interesting. This one is difficult to do convergence testing on, because the problem scales as N 4 N^4 . It was fortunate that N = 100 N = 100 and N = 200 N = 200 gave similar results. I also thought about finding the flux through a cylindrical surface as well as an identical disk on the other end, to check against Gauss's Law (but didn't do so).

Steven Chase - 1 year, 2 months ago

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Nice idea. But as you rightly say, computationally expensive. I have shared my solution. Please take a look and see if something catches your eye. Thanks in advance.

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Karan Chatrath I gave it a rough looking over, and the two solutions appear the same

Steven Chase - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Steven Chase Sir I will post a question like this only and in that question the surface charge density in a disk is varying, and we have to calculate flux, like this only. I think it would be more interesting.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Yeah, that sounds like a good one

Steven Chase - 1 year, 2 months ago

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@Steven Chase @Steven Chase I have uploaded a new follow up here https://brilliant.org/problems/expected-moment-part-3/

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Steven Chase Sir I am crying why you rotate the loop, it's centre normal vector in the direction 1 , 2 , 3 1, 2,3 . I will not able to solve. I just want to ask can I solve that question with pen ,page and wolfram ??please.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

@Karan Chatrath I have updated the question.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago

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