Edge Case Of Rolling!

On the edge of a cuboidal plank of mass M = 8 kg M = 8\text{ kg} , a uniform solid spherical ball of mass m = 12 kg m = 12\text{ kg} and radius R R is kept. The ball is given a very slight push towards right. There is no \underline{\text{no}} friction between plank and ground and friction between ball and plank is sufficient to prevent slipping \underline{\text{prevent slipping}} . The plank won't topple during the journey.

If when ball just loses contact with plank, the angle made by Center of Mass ball with vertical is θ \theta , then cos θ = a b 3 where a , b I + \displaystyle \cos\theta = \frac{\sqrt{a} - b}{3} \text{ where } a, b \in I^+ Enter your answer as a + b a + b .


Inspiration Aniket Sanghi

All of my problems are original .


The answer is 27.

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2 solutions

Aryan Sanghi
Nov 5, 2020

When ball leaves the plank, let the velocity of plank be v v and velocity of ball w.r.t. plank be u u and angular velocity of ball be ω \omega


Relating u u , v v and ω \omega

Applying conservation of momentum in horizontal direction

m ( u cos θ v ) = M v m(u\cos\theta - v) = Mv v = m u cos θ M + m \boxed{v = \frac{mu\cos\theta}{M + m}}

Also, as there is no slipping, therfore

ω = u R \boxed{\omega = \frac{u}{R}}


Finding cos θ \cos\theta

Applying conservation of energy

m g R ( 1 cos θ ) = 1 2 M v 2 + 1 2 m ( u cos θ v ) 2 + 1 2 m ( u sin θ ) 2 + 1 2 I ω 2 mgR(1-\cos\theta) = \frac12Mv^2 + \frac12m(u\cos\theta-v)^2 + \frac12m(u\sin\theta)^2 + \frac12I\omega^2

2 m g R ( 1 cos θ ) = M ( m u cos θ M + m ) 2 + m ( M u cos θ M + m ) 2 + m ( u sin θ ) 2 + 2 5 m u 2 2mgR(1-\cos\theta) = M\bigg(\frac{mu\cos\theta}{M + m}\bigg)^2 + m\bigg(\frac{Mu\cos\theta}{M + m}\bigg)^2 + m(u\sin\theta)^2 + \frac25mu^2

u 2 = 10 g R ( M + m ) 2 7 M 2 + m 2 ( 7 5 cos 2 θ ) + M m ( 14 5 cos 2 θ ) u^2 = \frac{10gR(M+m)^2}{7M^2 + m^2(7-5\cos^2\theta) + Mm(14-5\cos^2\theta)}

Now, when ball loses contact with wedge, N = 0 N = 0 and so m u 2 R = m g cos θ \displaystyle \frac{mu^2}{R} = mg\cos\theta or u 2 = g R cos θ u^2 = gR\cos\theta .

g R cos θ = 10 g R ( M + m ) 2 7 M 2 + m 2 ( 7 5 cos 2 θ ) + M m ( 14 5 cos 2 θ ) gR\cos\theta= \frac{10gR(M+m)^2}{7M^2 + m^2(7-5\cos^2\theta) + Mm(14-5\cos^2\theta)}

5 m cos 3 θ 17 ( M + m ) cos θ + 10 ( M + m ) = 0 5m\cos^3\theta - 17(M+m)\cos\theta + 10(M+m) = 0

60 cos 3 θ 340 cos θ + 200 = 0 60\cos^3\theta - 340\cos\theta + 200 = 0

cos θ = 24 3 3 \boxed{\cos\theta = \frac{\sqrt{24} - 3}{3}}


Visualisation: Ball leaves wedge at angle 50.7287 ° 50.7287° with vertical.

when the ball is in contact with the wedge, the point of the ball that is in contact has the same acceleration as the wedge, up until just before losing contact. the angular velocity must obey this constraint up until just before losing contact. the angular velocity cannot change instantaneously, it is the same right before and right after losing contact. thus, we should use this constraint in determining the angular velocity right after losing contact. your approach in determining this angular velocity requires that the point that was in contact, has no acceleration along the radius, which we do not know for sure once contact has been lost. i got your answer, but i think the correct answer is (7 - 2 sqrt 7) / 3.

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

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Sir, you said in your statement that angular velocity cannot change instantaneously, . So, I found the angular velocity just before losing contact, which is equal to angular velocity just after losing contact. Also, I asked the angle made by ball with vertical just after it loses contact, which is equal to angle with vertical just before it loses contact, which I found in solution. Also sir, I conserved energy of ball in ball's COM frame, so whether or not the contact point has acceleration doesn't matter. Hope it helps sir. :)

Aryan Sanghi - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

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mu^2 / R = mg cos theta, requires that the point of contact has no acceleration along the radius, we do not know for sure if this is true. what we do know is that the angular velocity upon losing contact must obey the constraint that the acceleration of the wedge and of the contact point must be the same before losing contact, which you totally ignored in your solution. also you cannot apply conservation of energy in an accelerating frame. would you like me to post my solution?

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

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@Ramon Vicente Marquez Actually sir, I did include the constraint. In solution, you can see that As there is no slipping(i.e. acceleration of contact point of both wedge and ball is same) so ω = u r \omega = \frac{u}{r} . Also sir, for any rotating/rolling body, acceleration of any point w.r.t. COM is mu^2/d where d is distance from COM(true for any point other than COM also). You could write the FBD and I think you too would get mu^2/r = mg cos theta. Hope it helps sir. :)

Aryan Sanghi - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

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@Aryan Sanghi incorrect. for the general plane motion of a rigid body (translation and rotation in 2 dimensions), the relative acceleration between two points of the rigid body has a radial component (omega^2 R) and a tangential component (alpha R). in engineering mechanics, this is known as the pole method of acceleration analysis. this method is derived from the concept of related rates in calculus. please see my solution to see how this is applied.

acceleration, unlike velocity, can change instantaneously upon losing contact. the radial component of the COM acceleration just after losing contact, g cos theta, is not necessarily the same as the centripetal acceleration just before losing contact, u^2 / R. although the normal force approaches zero just before losing contact, friction does not necessarily approach zero. this is because there must be enough friction to prevent slipping while there is contact.

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

looking at your solution, we have the same equation for energy conservation, we both did it in the rest frame.

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

@Aryan Sanghi , this is my solution, try working out how i got cos theta = (7 - 2 sqrt 7) / 3.

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

@Aryan Sanghi , you might want to review your solution. there could be something wrong with it, that's why there's only two of us who got this problem, and the only solver aside from you, which is me, thinks that your solution is wrong.

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

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I'll see to it sir. Thanks for your review of the question. :)

Aryan Sanghi - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

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let me know what you think of my solution

Ramon Vicente Marquez - 4 months, 3 weeks ago

1 pending report

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