Equal perimeter and area

Geometry Level 3

A triangle’s perimeter and area have the same integer value.

What is the smallest possible area of the triangle?


The answer is 21.

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7 solutions

Jeremy Galvagni
Sep 8, 2018
  • For small triangles, the perimeter will be a larger number than the area.
  • To maximize the area, make the triangle equilateral.
  • You can increase the perimeter of a triangle without changing its area by skewing it.

So let's begin by considering equilateral triangles where p = 3 s p=3s and A = 3 4 s 2 A=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{4}s^{2}

Since we want the area and perimeter equal we can write 3 s = 3 4 s 2 3s=\frac{\sqrt{3}}{4}s^{2}

Which solves to s = 4 3 s=4\sqrt{3} hence A = p = 12 3 20.8 A=p=12\sqrt{3} \approx 20.8

This is the minimum of any triangle with equal perimeter and area. We need an integer so increase A A to 21 21 which will make the perimeter slightly less. Then just skew it a bit to make p = A = 21 p=A=\boxed{21}


A B C \triangle ABC is the smallest triangle with equal perimeter and area, it is equilateral.

D E F \triangle DEF is enlarged so its area is an integer, 21 21 . But the perimeter is less.

Slide F F to F F' to increase the perimeter to 21 21 while keeping the area fixed.

Elegantly stated.
I got the equilateral answer of about 20.78461 but then when the result had to be integer, I figured it had to be a pair of 3,4,5 triangles with either the 3 or 4 side common. 3,4,5 triangles were the best to have integer parameters AND integer areas and closest to equilaterals in shape. I completely missed the possibility that the sides could be irrational, but integer area and skew the triangle so that parameter became rational. Really elegant.

Stephen Rasey - 2 years, 9 months ago

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The triangle with sides 7 7 , 7.5 7.5 , 6.5 6.5 works, so we don't need irrational side lengths. See my solution.

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 9 months ago

How do you get A=sqrt(3)/4 s^2 ??

epic play Saji - 2 years, 9 months ago

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If it is not a well-known formula it is easily derived.

Split the triangle by its altitude and you get two 30-60-90 triangles. This makes the shorter leg s 2 \frac{s}{2} and the longer leg (the height) s 3 2 \frac{s\sqrt{3}}{2} so the area formula is A = 1 2 s s 3 2 = 3 4 s 2 A= \frac{1}{2} \cdot s \cdot \frac{s\sqrt{3}}{2} = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4}s^{2}

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 9 months ago

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or even just 1 2 s 2 sin 6 0 \tfrac12s^2\sin60^\circ .

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@Mark Hennings ohhhhh I get it thanks....

epic play Saji - 2 years, 9 months ago

I try the (5, 12, 13), that have same area and perimeter. For integer values I could divide by 30 divisors. Dividing by 30 each measure get a unitary area triangle. Could be this way? (5/30, 12/30, 13/30)

Elias Hadad - 2 years, 9 months ago

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That triangle has perimeter 1, but its area is only 1/30 square unit. For a scale factor k, area is changed by k^2.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 9 months ago

Why are you assuming equilateral triangle?

prashant sharma - 2 years, 8 months ago

By experimenting with an online calculator (which gave the area if you input three lengths) I found that for an equilateral triangle with integer sides, area > perimeter for side length 7 or more and area < perimeter for side length 6 or less. I also found that side lengths of 6.6667 6.6667 and 6.6666 (perimeter = 20) gave an area less than 20, and any adjustment of sides (keeping the same perimeter) merely reduced the area. An equilateral triangle with side length 7 produced an area greater than 21 but with a little adjustment and a bit of trial and error I was able to find that side lengths 6.5 , 7 and 7.5 produced the area 21.

Paul Cockburn - 2 years, 8 months ago

I was mistaking the task in the way that also the side lengths shall be integer. Written a short brute force program and found 6, 8, 10 as sides leading to perimeter = area = 24 for the smallest area, which I find to be a nice solution. Other solutions are 5, 12, 13 -> A = 30; 9, 10, 17 -> A = 36; 7, 15, 20 -> A = 42; 6, 25, 29 -> A= 60 and larger numbers.

Gerhard Joos - 2 years, 8 months ago
Andrew Hayes Staff
Sep 8, 2018

By Heron's formula, the area of a triangle with side lengths a , a, b , b, and c c is:

A = 1 4 ( a + b + c ) ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) A = \frac{1}{4}\sqrt{(a+b+c)(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c)}

In this problem, the triangle's area is equal to its perimeter, so:

A = a + b + c = 1 4 ( a + b + c ) ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) A = a+b+c = \frac{1}{4}\sqrt{(a+b+c)(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c)}

Some more algebraic manipulation:

( a + b + c ) 2 = 1 16 ( a + b + c ) ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) Square both sides a + b + c = 1 16 ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) Divide both sides by ( a + b + c ) 16 A = ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) Multiply both sides by 16 and substitute A \begin{array}{lr} (a+b+c)^2 = \frac{1}{16}(a+b+c)(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c) & \text{Square both sides} \\ a+b+c = \frac{1}{16}(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c) & \text{Divide both sides by } (a+b+c) \\ 16A = (-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c) & \text{Multiply both sides by 16 and substitute } A \\ \end{array}

Now note that the three factors in the right side are all positive due to the Triangle Inequality. It is also possible that they are all equal. We can apply AM-GM:

( a + b + c ) + ( a b + c ) + ( a + b c ) 3 ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) 3 AM-GM inequality a + b + c 3 ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) 3 Simplify A 3 16 A 3 Substitution A 12 3 Solve for A \begin{array}{lr} \frac{(-a+b+c)+(a-b+c)+(a+b-c)}{3} \ge \sqrt[3]{(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c)} & \text{AM-GM inequality} \\ \frac{a+b+c}{3} \ge \sqrt[3]{(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c)} & \text{Simplify} \\ \frac{A}{3} \ge \sqrt[3]{16A} & \text{Substitution} \\ A \ge 12\sqrt{3} & \text{Solve for }A \\ \end{array}

The equality is satisfied when a + b + c = a b + c = a + b c . -a+b+c=a-b+c=a+b-c. This gives an equilateral triangle with side lengths 4 3 . 4\sqrt{3}. 12 3 20.785 , 12\sqrt{3} \approx 20.785, so the next largest integer is 21 . \boxed{21}. An example of a triangle that has this area/perimeter is ( 6.5 , 7 , 7.5 ) . (6.5,7,7.5).


Note : It's tempting to use AM-GM with the four factors in the right side of Heron's formula:

A = 1 4 ( a + b + c ) ( a + b + c ) ( a b + c ) ( a + b c ) A = \frac{1}{4}\sqrt{(a+b+c)(-a+b+c)(a-b+c)(a+b-c)}

However, it is not possible for the factor ( a + b + c ) (a+b+c) to be equal to the other three factors. In this case, the AM-GM inequality will give a bound on the solution, but it will not give the minimum.

I didn't understand the last step, why the equality is satisfied when a + b + c = a b + c = a + b c -a +b+c = a-b+c = a+b-c

Prem Chebrolu - 2 years, 9 months ago

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That is a property of the AM-GM inequality . The arithmetic mean is equal to the geometric mean when all the numbers are equal.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Okay... I got it! Thank you @Andrew Hayes

Prem Chebrolu - 2 years, 9 months ago

You can think it this way. (-a+b+c) and (a-b+c) and (a+b-c) are side lenghts of a right angled box, to maximize the volume we want to set all side lenghts equal as it makes the most sphear like shape.

Markus Puhakainen - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Thank you! I got it! 😄

Prem Chebrolu - 2 years, 9 months ago

Brilliant sir!!

Debanjan Roy - 2 years, 9 months ago
Bryan Hung
Sep 9, 2018

From K = r s = r p 2 K = rs=\frac{rp}{2} we get that the inradius of the triangle is 2. Now, it is intuitively obvious that for fixed inradius, the area is minimized when the triangle is equilateral, so we have an equilateral triangle of side length 4 3 4\sqrt{3} and we can quickly finish and get an answer of 12 3 = 21 \lceil 12\sqrt{3} \rceil = \boxed{21} . It is simple to show that this is obtainable.

For completeness, let us prove that the equilateral triangle is indeed the minimal case. We operate on the following marked angles:

Let these be θ 1 \theta_1 , θ 2 \theta_2 , and θ 3 \theta_3 . We have that θ 1 + θ 2 + θ 3 = 18 0 \theta_1+\theta_2+\theta_3=180^\circ , and the area of the triangle is: r ( r tan ( θ 1 ) ) + r ( r tan ( θ 2 ) ) + r ( r tan ( θ 3 ) ) = r 2 ( tan ( θ 1 ) + tan ( θ 2 ) + tan ( θ 3 ) ) r(r\tan(\theta_1))+r(r\tan(\theta_2))+r(r\tan(\theta_3))=r^2(\tan(\theta_1)+\tan(\theta_2)+\tan(\theta_3)) It suffices to minimize tan ( θ 1 ) + tan ( θ 2 ) + tan ( θ 3 ) \tan(\theta_1)+\tan(\theta_2)+\tan(\theta_3) . Note that 0 θ 1 , θ 1 , θ 1 π 2 0 \leq \theta_1,\ \theta_1,\ \theta_1 \leq \frac{\pi}{2} , and on this interval, tan ( θ ) \tan(\theta) is convex. Hence, by Jensen's Inequality: tan ( θ 1 ) + tan ( θ 2 ) + tan ( θ 3 ) 3 tan ( θ 1 + θ 2 + θ 3 3 ) = tan ( 6 0 ) = 3 \frac{\tan(\theta_1)+\tan(\theta_2)+\tan(\theta_3)}{3} \geq \tan\left(\frac{\theta_1+\theta_2+\theta_3}{3}\right) = \tan(60^\circ) = \sqrt{3} So tan ( θ 1 ) + tan ( θ 2 ) + tan ( θ 3 ) \tan(\theta_1)+\tan(\theta_2)+\tan(\theta_3) is minimized at 3 3 3\sqrt{3} . Equality holds only when either our function is linear (tangent clearly isn't linear) or the function arguments are all equal, hence θ 1 = θ 2 = θ 3 = 6 0 \theta_1=\theta_2=\theta_3=60^\circ . This implies that the triangle is equilateral when the area is minimal.

I believe it would be most close to 16 (4+4+8) because of it being an isosoles triangle. you just have to multiply one of congruent sides by half of the third side getting the area. (4 multiplied by 4 makes the 16 we need

Caleb Webster - 2 years, 9 months ago

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huh? Can you explain what you are talking about?

Bryan Hung - 2 years, 9 months ago

No, Caleb, the area of an ISOCELES triangle is not (as you wrongly claim) the multiple of "one of congruent sides by half of the third side" ... check your thinking!

Gra Peach - 2 years, 9 months ago

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i ment the one of portions. if it were to be standing up and if you were to cut each section in half you would get 2 right triangles that would form rectangle. normally if you were to take a right triangle and multiply the sides that form a 90 degree angle you would get 2x the area of the triangle itself, but because there is two CONGRUENT triangles we only have to use this method once.

Caleb Webster - 2 years, 8 months ago

Is 0 not an integer?

Megaman Terry - 2 years, 9 months ago
Mark Hennings
Sep 8, 2018

If the triangle has sides a , b , c a,b,c and semiperimeter s s , write u = s a u = s-a , v = s b v = s-b , w = s c w = s-c . Then u + v + w = s u+v+w=s and so the triangle has perimeter 2 ( u + v + w ) 2(u+v+w) and area Δ = ( u + v + w ) u v w \Delta = \sqrt{(u+v+w)uvw} . Thus we require that 4 ( u + v + w ) = u v w 4(u+v+w) = uvw , and hence that u v > 4 uv > 4 and that w = 4 ( u + v ) u v 4 w \; = \; \frac{4(u+v)}{uv-4} in which case the triangle has area Δ = 2 u v ( u + v ) u v 4 \Delta = \frac{2uv(u+v)}{uv-4} . Thus u + v = ( u v 4 ) Δ 2 u v u+v = \frac{(uv-4)\Delta}{2uv} and hence u , v u,v are real roots of the quadratic X 2 ( u v 4 ) Δ 2 u v X + u v = 0 X^2 - \frac{(uv-4)\Delta}{2uv}X + uv \; = \; 0 so this quadratic must have nonnegative discriminant, so that ( u v 4 ) 2 Δ 2 4 u 2 v 2 4 u v 0 Δ 2 16 u 3 v 3 ( u v 4 ) 2 Δ 4 ( u v ) 3 2 u v 4 \begin{aligned} \frac{(uv-4)^2\Delta^2}{4u^2v^2} - 4uv & \ge \; 0 \\ \Delta^2 & \ge \; \frac{16u^3v^3}{(uv-4)^2} \\ \Delta & \ge \; \frac{4(uv)^{\frac32}}{uv-4} \end{aligned} It is easy to see that the function g ( t ) = 4 t 3 2 t 4 g(t) = \frac{4t^{\frac32}}{t-4} (for t > 4 t > 4 ) has minimum 12 3 12\sqrt{3} when t = 12 t=12 , and so certainly Δ 12 3 \Delta \ge 12\sqrt{3} .

The smallest integer value of Δ \Delta that satisfies this condition is 21 \boxed{21} . For this value of Δ \Delta we can obtain u = 7 2 u=\tfrac72 , v = 3 v=3 , w = 4 w=4 , so that a = v + w = 7 a = v+w=7 , b = u + w = 15 2 b=u+w=\tfrac{15}{2} , c = u + v = 13 2 c = u+v = \tfrac{13}{2} .

Bob Ewell
Sep 13, 2018

Wow, I’m reading the posted solutions...I thought we had to find one. Just saying the minimum is 21 without actually finding it seems a bit incomplete. If we put a 5, 12, 13 triangle next to a 9, 12, 15 triangle, we have a triangle of sides 14, 13, 15, P = 42 and A = 84. Scaling this triangle by a factor of P/A = 1/2 gives us 7, 6.5, 7.5 which has A = P = 21.

I had worked on a similar problem in the past where A = P AND the sides, as well as A and P, have to be integers. There are two right triangles that satisfy that: 6, 8, 10 and 5, 12, 13. If we take the equation a + b + sqrt(a^2 + b^2) = ab/2, we can eventually manipulate it to b = 4(a - 2)/(a - 4). It’s not hard to show that a = 6, 8, 5, or 12 are the only values that make b, A and P integers.

There are three other triangles with all sides integers and A = P. These are formed by cutting a smaller right triangle out of a larger right triangle. It’s a little tougher proving these are the only 3, but I finally did that a few years ago (proof left to the reader!). The three obtuse triangles with integral sides and A = P are (9, 10, 17), (7, 15, 20), and (6, 25, 29).

Assuming isosceles triangle with base '2y' and height 'x' ,

xy=area,

2y+2√(x^2+y^2)=perimeter.

Solving for area = perimeter = integer = 21, using WolframAlpha, script

"solve xy=21, 2y+2√(x^2+y^2)=21"

Two numerical solutions were found only for area =21. Read my post.

However, your solution is very interesting as it gives sides as rational numbers and perimeter and area as integer=21.

Vinod Kumar - 2 years, 9 months ago
David Vreken
Sep 8, 2018

For a fixed perimeter P P of a triangle, the minimum area occurs for a nearly "flat" triangle with an area just greater than 0 0 , and the maximum area of a triangle occurs for an equilateral triangle with an area of 3 4 ( P 3 ) 2 \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4}(\frac{P}{3})^2 (see here for several proofs of this), so there exists an area A A such that 0 < A 3 4 ( P 3 ) 2 0 < A \leq \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4}(\frac{P}{3})^2 .

For P = A P = A , we have 0 < P 3 4 ( P 3 ) 2 0 < P \leq \frac{\sqrt{3}}{4}(\frac{P}{3})^2 , which solves to P 12 3 20.7846 P \geq 12\sqrt{3} \approx 20.7846 , and the smallest integer value such that P > 20.7846 P > 20.7846 is P = A = 21 P = A = \boxed{21} . (One example is a triangle with sides 6.5 6.5 , 7 7 , and 7.5 7.5 .)

That's how I did it. Clever and simple, no need for calculus. Upvote!

Uros Stojkovic - 2 years, 9 months ago
Vinod Kumar
Sep 11, 2018

Assuming isosceles triangle with base '2y' and height 'x' ,

xy=area,

2y+2√(x^2+y^2)=perimeter.

Solving for area = perimeter = integer = 21, using WolframAlpha, script

"solve xy=21, 2y+2√(x^2+y^2)=21"

a solution exists for two triangles as below:

(1) x=5.55373, y=3.78124,

(2) x=6.55678, y=3.20279,

Answer=21.

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