Equations and polynomials? II (easier)

Algebra Level 4

Let reals a , b , c a, b, c satisfy:

a + b = 15 , a+b=15,

a b + c = 74 , ab+c=74,

a c = 120. ac=120.

Find the sum of all possible values of a a .

This is a simpler version (and a hint) of the problem Equations and Polynomials and is part of the set ... and polynomials


The answer is 15.

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4 solutions

Sujoy Roy
Nov 23, 2014

Multiply equation 2 2 by a a , we get a 2 b + a c = 74 a a^2b+ac=74a

or, a 2 ( 15 a ) + 120 = 74 a a^2(15-a)+120=74a (using equations 1 1 and 3 3 )

or, a 3 15 a 2 + 74 a 120 = 0 a^3-15a^2+74a-120=0

Sum of all possible values of a a is 15 \boxed{15} .

Here getting the 3 r d 3^{rd} degree equation and applying Vieta's sum is not enough. Because it is mentioned in the question that a , b , c R a,b,c \in R . So you also need to show that this equation has all three real roots. @sujoy roy @Joel Tan

Sandeep Bhardwaj - 6 years, 6 months ago

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By some calculation roots for above equation are 6,5,4.

shivamani patil - 6 years, 6 months ago

Indeed. It is important to verify that the roots are real, in order to conclude that there are corresponding real values of a a . This mistake was made in subsequent questions, which invalidated the final answer.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 6 months ago

It's clear that this doesn't have a triple root. Thus taking the second derivative for inflection points we get a=5. Plugging in 5 we find 5 to be a root of the equation. Thus since the inflection point is at zero and there isn't a triple root (there must be up and down curves), there are three real roots.

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 6 months ago

Nice and elegant!

Joel Tan - 6 years, 6 months ago

Is there another method that will work for this question and the other harder one?

Joel Tan - 6 years, 6 months ago

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Some thing is getting to me. If you add all the equations and factor, you get 210 = ( a + 1 ) ( b + c + 1 ) 210=(a+1)(b+c+1)

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 6 months ago

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Same can be done for the harder version.

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 6 months ago

Btw, I edited the first line of your solution to say 74a

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 6 months ago
Kalpok Guha
Dec 21, 2014
  1. a + b = 15 , a+b=15,

  2. a b + c = 74 , ab+c=74,

  3. a c = 120. ac=120. From 1. b = 15 a , b=15-a, , from 3. c = 120 a , c=\frac{120}{a},

Putting the values on 2

We get a ( 15 a ) + 120 a = 74 a(15-a)+\frac{120}{a}=74

or, a 3 15 a 2 + 74 a 120 = 0 a^3-15a^2+74a-120=0

or, ( a 5 ) 3 ( a 5 ) = 0 (a-5)^3-(a-5)=0

or, ( a 5 ) [ ( a 5 ) 2 1 ] = 0 (a-5)[(a-5)^2-1]=0

or, ( a 5 ) ( a 4 ) ( a 6 ) = 0 (a-5)(a-4)(a-6)=0

Either a = 5 a=5 ,or a = 4 a=4 ,or a = 6 a=6

Sum of the possible values of a = 4 + 5 + 6 = 15 a=4+5+6=15

Just a small correction. In the second last line it should be x-6.

Aayush Patni - 6 years, 3 months ago

hello i want to modify the solution as we can use the veitas formulae to find the the sum than breaking the cubic equation a+b+c=-b/a=15/1=15

abhishek alva - 4 years, 9 months ago
Jakub Šafin
Nov 26, 2014

We can see that a a are roots of the polynomial P ( x ) = x 3 15 x 2 + 74 x 120. P(x)=x^3-15x^2+74x-120. Let's try to find rational roots. If x = p q x=\frac{p}{q} , then q 3 P ( x ) 120 q 3 m o d p q^3P(x) \equiv -120q^3 \mod p ; since p , q p,q must be coprime, it follows that p 120 p|120 ; with q q as the modulo, we can find that q = 1 q=1 . Trying out the first few divisors of 120 120 , we can see that 4 , 5 , 6 4,5,6 are roots and P ( x ) = ( x 4 ) ( x 5 ) ( x 6 ) . P(x)=(x-4)(x-5)(x-6). Therefore, a = 4 , 5 , 6 a=4,5,6 are all solutions.

Can you explain why is a a a root of that polynomial?

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 6 months ago

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I'm trying to stay conscious right now, so here's a link . By this, rational roots must be (integer) divisors of 120. We just try them by increasing abs. value and get lucky quickly.

Jakub Šafin - 6 years, 6 months ago

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I'm not asking how to factorize the polynomial. I understand that there are various ways of doing so, and the rational root theorem is one of them.

My question is, how do you know that the first line is true? You stated that "We can see that a a are roots of the polynomial P ( x ) = x 3 15 x 2 + 74 x 120 P(x) = x^3 - 15x^2 + 74x- 120 ." How do we see that?

From Sujoy's solution, I know that this is true, but it takes some work. It seems to me that you had a fast/simple way of understanding why this must be true, which is why you didn't add an explanation.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 6 months ago

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@Calvin Lin Oh. Brute force expressing c = 74 a b = 74 a ( 15 a ) c=74-ab=74-a(15-a) and stuffing it into a c = 120 ac=120 . There's literally no thinking behind this.

Jakub Šafin - 6 years, 6 months ago

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@Jakub Šafin Ah I see, so something similar to what Sujoy did, though harder to motivate why it works. Thanks!

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 6 months ago
Sharky Kesa
Sep 11, 2016

Notice that

( x + a ) ( x 2 + b x + c ) = x 3 + ( a + b ) x 2 + ( a b + c ) x + a c (x+a)(x^2 + bx + c) = x^3 + (a+b)x^2 + (ab+c)x + ac

We substitute the above values in to get

x 3 + 15 x 2 + 74 x + 120 = ( x + a ) ( x 2 + b x + c ) ( x + a ) x^3 + 15x^2 + 74x + 120 = (x+a)(x^2 + bx + c)(x+a)

Since x 3 + 15 x 2 + 74 x + 120 = ( x + 4 ) ( x + 5 ) ( x + 6 ) x^3 + 15x^2 + 74x + 120 = (x+4)(x+5)(x+6) , we can have the value of a a to be one of 4 , 5 , 6 4, 5, 6 and the other quadratic would be the product of he other two brackets. Thus, the sum of all values of a a is 15.

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