Extremes with Equilaterals

Geometry Level 5

Two concentric circles with center O O have radii of 20 20 and 14 14 .

Two points A A and B B are drawn such that A A is on the circle of radius 20 20 , and B B is on the circle with radius 14 14 .

A point P P is drawn so that A P B \triangle APB is equilateral.

If the maximum possible distance of O P OP is M M , and the minimum is m m , then find M × m M\times m .


The answer is 204.

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3 solutions

Daniel Liu
Jun 1, 2014

Draw the circle with radius O P OP . By Pompeiu's Theorem, the line segments O P OP , O A OA , and O B OB can make a (possibly degenerate) triangle. Thus, by the triangle inequality, O A + O B O P OA+OB \ge OP and O B + O P O A OB+OP \ge OA . We know that O A = 20 OA=20 and O B = 14 OB=14 . Thus, 20 + 14 O P O P 34 20+14 \ge OP \implies OP\le 34 14 + O P 20 O P 6 14+OP\ge 20\implies OP\ge 6

Thus, M = 34 M=34 and m = 6 m=6 so our answer is 6 × 34 = 204 6\times 34=\boxed{204} .

Pompeiu's Theorem kills this problem. Expect to see some less trivial problems using Pompeiu's from me; I'm currently studying it from a book I got at a competition.

Daniel Liu - 7 years ago

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Aw nartz I didn't know that theorem. What competition?

Finn Hulse - 7 years ago

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I think I have seen it in Amc problem but i donot remember

Mardokay Mosazghi - 7 years ago

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@Mardokay Mosazghi How'd you do on AMC's?

Finn Hulse - 7 years ago

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@Finn Hulse Never took the 10 grade one but on AMC 8 I got 20/25 marks. @Finn Hulse

Mardokay Mosazghi - 7 years ago

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@Mardokay Mosazghi Nice dude. The AMC 8 for 2014 was before I ever started math. I got a 16, which kind of inspired me to get better at math. Slacked off, and did terribly on AMC 10 too. Next year though... :O

Finn Hulse - 7 years ago

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@Finn Hulse Yep next year

Mardokay Mosazghi - 7 years ago

it was a UW Math Olymiad competition

UW=University of Washington

Daniel Liu - 7 years ago

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@Daniel Liu Oh nice. Did you win?

Finn Hulse - 7 years ago

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@Finn Hulse No, I got 2nd place along with 4 other people; 3 people got 1st from solving all 7 problems. I only solved 6.

Daniel Liu - 7 years ago

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@Daniel Liu Dude it's okay I already saw the page. Dude I'm cool like that. :D

Finn Hulse - 7 years ago

Also it is perfectly possible to solve the problem without the theorem, but the theorem makes it a lot more convenient.

Daniel Liu - 7 years ago

what if O, A, B are collinear then m and M are same but their product doesnt equals 204 .. !!

Ramesh Goenka - 7 years ago

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Well, if A, O, and B are collinear, it doesn't give the maximum nor the minimum. I'm not exactly sure what's confusing you.

Daniel Liu - 7 years ago

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if A, O, and B are collinear then the maximum and minimum values are the same .. !! since the only condition given is the points A and B should be on the circle ... and the maximum and minimum value are independent of any desired position ... then the collinear case can be considered where its easy to find the length OP... ! but this approach doesn't agrees with your up voted solution .. !

Ramesh Goenka - 7 years ago

This reminds me of an old AIME problem on the 2012 test.

Finn Hulse - 6 years, 11 months ago

I think it would be more challenging if this problem asks to sketch the corresponding point P to the extrema. I hypothesize that it may be sketch-able via straightedge and compass. Two more questions for those who love to take a deeper look. Interesting problem anyway!

Anh Vu - 6 years, 11 months ago
Ray Flores
Jul 18, 2014

Figure Figure

If O B OB is fixed and A A moves along the red circle, then P P also moves along a congruent circle (purple). This purple circle is obtained by rotating the red one by 60 ° 60° with center in B B ... well in fact is 60 ° -60°

This means that the center Q Q of this second circle forms an equilateral triangle O B Q OBQ .

Given that O Q = 14 OQ= 14 and the radius of this purple circle is 20 20 , is easy to find that m = 6 m=6 and M = 34 M=34 ... and the answers is 204 204 .

:)

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