Falling Ladder

An 8.1 m 8.1\text{ m} -long uniform ladder stands on a frictionless floor and leans against a frictionless wall. It is initially held motionless, with its bottom end at a very small distance from the wall.

The ladder is then released from rest.

What is the speed of the ladder's tip when it hits the ground?

Note: Take g = 10 m / s 2 . g=10\text{ m}/\text{s}^2.

6 m / s 6\text{ m}/\text{s} 9 m / s 9\text{ m}/\text{s} 12 m / s 12\text{ m}/\text{s} 15 m / s 15\text{ m}/\text{s} 18 m / s 18\text{ m}/\text{s}

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3 solutions

Mark Hennings
Sep 23, 2018

Suppose that the rod has length 2 r 2r and mass m m . While the rod is in contact with both the wall and the floor, its centre moves along a circle of radius r r with centre the point where the wall and floor meet. If the rod makes an angle θ \theta with the downward vertical, then the velocity of the centre of mass is r θ ˙ r\dot{\theta} , and so the kinetic energy of the rod is T = 1 2 m r 2 θ ˙ 2 + 1 2 × 1 3 m r 2 × θ ˙ 2 = 2 3 m r 2 θ ˙ 2 T \; = \; \tfrac12mr^2\dot{\theta}^2 + \tfrac12 \times \tfrac13mr^2 \times \dot{\theta}^2 \; = \; \tfrac23mr^2\dot{\theta}^2 and so conservation of energy tells us that 2 3 m r 2 θ ˙ 2 + m g r cos θ = m g r \tfrac23mr^2\dot{\theta}^2 + mgr\cos\theta \; = \; mgr Thus the speed of the centre of mass is v = r θ ˙ v = r\dot{\theta} , where v 2 = 3 2 g r ( 1 cos θ ) v^2 \; = \; \tfrac32gr(1 - \cos\theta) , and so the horizontal component of the velocity of the centre of mass is v x = v cos θ = 3 2 g r ( 1 cos θ ) cos θ v_x \; = \; v\cos\theta \; = \; \sqrt{\tfrac32gr(1 - \cos\theta)}\cos\theta Then d v x d θ = 3 2 g r sin θ ( 3 cos θ 2 ) 2 1 cos θ \frac{d v_x}{d\theta} \; =\; \sqrt{\tfrac32gr}\frac{\sin\theta(3\cos\theta - 2)}{2\sqrt{1 - \cos\theta}} Since θ ˙ > 0 \dot{\theta} > 0 at all times and m v ˙ x = R m\dot{v}_x = R , we see that the rod remains in contact with the wall for as long as d v x d θ 0 \frac{d v_x}{d\theta} \ge 0 , namely so long as cos θ 2 3 \cos\theta \ge \tfrac23 .

The rod parts company with the wall when θ = cos 1 2 3 \theta = \cos^{-1}\tfrac23 , at which point v = 1 2 g r v = \sqrt{\tfrac12gr} and v x = V = 1 3 2 g r v_x = V = \tfrac13\sqrt{2gr} . After this the rod is acted upon solely by gravity and the reaction force N N , and so we have the equations of motion m y ¨ = N m g 1 3 m r 2 θ ¨ = N r sin θ m\ddot{y} \; = \; N - mg \hspace{2cm} \tfrac13mr^2\ddot{\theta} \; = \; Nr\sin\theta where y = r cos θ y = r\cos\theta is the height of the centre of mass above the ground. From these equations we deduce (after eliminating N N ) that r 2 ( 1 + 3 sin 2 θ ) θ ¨ + 3 r 2 sin θ cos θ θ ˙ 2 = 3 g r sin θ r^2(1 + 3\sin^2\theta)\ddot{\theta} + 3r^2\sin\theta\cos\theta \dot{\theta}^2 \; = \; 3gr\sin\theta and so (solving this differential equation and matching the boundary conditions from the first stage of the motion) the second part of the motion is described by the formula θ ˙ 2 = 2 g ( 8 9 cos θ ) 3 r ( 1 + 3 sin 2 θ ) cos 1 2 3 < θ < 1 2 π \dot{\theta}^2 \; = \; \frac{2g(8 - 9\cos\theta)}{3r(1 + 3\sin^2\theta)} \hspace{2cm} \cos^{-1}\tfrac23 < \theta < \tfrac12\pi Thus, when the rod hits the ground we have θ ˙ 2 = 4 g 3 r \dot{\theta}^2 = \tfrac{4g}{3r} , and so the vertical component of the velocity of the tip of the rod is 2 r θ ˙ = 16 3 g r 2r\dot{\theta} = \sqrt{\tfrac{16}{3}gr} . Throughout the second stage of the motion the horizontal component of the velocity of the centre of mass of the rod remains as V V , and so the horizontal component of the velocity of the tip of the rod when it strikes the ground is also V V . Thus the speed of the tip of the rod at the point of impact is 5 3 2 g r \tfrac53\sqrt{2gr} .

With 2 r = 8.1 2r =8.1 and g = 10 g=10 , we deduce that the speed of the tip of the rod at the moment of impact with the ground is 15 \boxed{15} m s 1 {}^{-1} .

Can you help me in finding how far the ladder's tip is from the wall when it falls to the ground?

Digvijay Singh - 2 years, 8 months ago

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The time for the second stage of the motion to take place is T = cos 1 2 3 1 2 π 3 r ( 1 + 3 sin 2 θ ) 2 g ( 8 9 cos θ ) d θ T = \int_{\cos^{-1}\frac23}^{\frac12\pi} \sqrt{\frac{3r(1 + 3\sin^2\theta)}{2g(8 - 9\cos\theta)}}\,d\theta during which time the centre of mass has travelled V T VT horizontally. At the start of the second stage, the centre of mass was 1 3 r 5 \tfrac13r\sqrt{5} away from the wall. Thus the tip is 1 3 r 5 + V T r \tfrac13r\sqrt{5} + VT - r away from the wall when it hits the ground.

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Is the integral doable? Does it result in elementary functions?

Digvijay Singh - 2 years, 8 months ago

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@Digvijay Singh Probably not - evaluate it numerically.

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

Why can't we just use energy conservation law as we know that the rod will be in rotational motion about point On the ground as it will be at rest in that instant.

Raghav Suryan - 2 years, 8 months ago

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The point on the ground will not be at rest. While the rod is in contact with the wall, it is acted upon by a horizontal force (the normal reaction from the wall). Thus the centre of mass of the rod receives a horizontal acceleration, and so develops a horizontal speed. Eventually the rod loses contact with the wall, after which its centre of mass maintains a constant horizontal speed. This will be the horizontal speed of the tip of the rod at the time the tip strikes the ground (and also the speed of the other end of the rod).

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

How did you solve that differential equation?

Alex Simkin - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Use the fact that d d θ ( 1 2 θ ˙ 2 ) = θ ¨ \frac{d}{d\theta}\big(\tfrac12\dot{\theta}^2\big) \; = \; \ddot{\theta} to convert the DE to a first order DE for θ ˙ 2 \dot{\theta}^2 in terms of θ \theta , and look for an integrating factor.

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Thank you!

Alex Simkin - 2 years, 8 months ago

I'm only 16 so I don't understand everything but I've tried. From v=g*t and d=1/2g * t^2 I had d = 5(t)^2 t=sqrt(d/5) V=g * sqrt(d/5)

Am I right or totally wrong? Thanks for your answers :)

Arthur PONS - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Things are much more complicated than can be handled by your equations. You are assuming that a point particle is falling freely under gravity. The rod is not falling freely, since it is affected by the reaction forces from the floor and the wall. Also, an important part of the rod’s motion is its rotation, and so you cannot treat it as a point particle.

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Oh ok... I tried :)

Arthur PONS - 2 years, 8 months ago

It's dynamic problem not a kinematic problem ,,so by this equation does not valid at all

Dharambir Poddar - 2 years, 7 months ago

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Kinematics is the study of the relationship between position, velocity and acceleration. Dynamics is understanding how forces and other factors bring about a particular kinematic situation. Arthur’s equations are kinematic, but they are the equations which describe the dynamic problem of an object falling freely under constant gravity. They are therefore the solution to a dynamic problem, but (in this case) the wrong one.

Kinematics is describing how things move, while dynamics tries to explain why they move. Thus the end of any dynamics problem is to obtain enough equations that the problem now becomes a kinematic one.

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 7 months ago
Brian Lamptey
Oct 4, 2018

It's a very small distance, so if we assume that distance is negligible, we'll get the height to be 8.1m.

m v 2 2 = m g h \frac {mv^2}{2}=mgh

v 2 2 = g h \frac {v^2}{2}=gh

v 2 = 2 g h v^2=2gh

v = 2 × 10 × 8.1 v=\sqrt {2 \times 10 \times 8.1}

v = 2 × 81 v=\sqrt {2 \times 81}

v = 9 2 v=9\sqrt {2}

Which is approximately 15.

Since 9 2 = 12.7279... 9\sqrt{2} = 12.7279... , why did your method not make you want to choose 12 12 as the answer?

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

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12.7270 is about 13, not 12 so no answer fits this. I asked my physics teacher and he told me to use this method, after I got the obviously wrong answer I tried to use the GPE from the centre of the ladder (I was thinking in terms of averaging it out and an approximation of fast velocity at small angles): even if I didn't notice something felt fishy I probably should have guessed that GCSE physics wasn't going to cut such a problem and actually attempted a few real time differential equations (although I am not quite used to this problem in particular)

Affan Morshed - 2 years, 8 months ago

@Mark Hennings 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Awesome

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 9 months ago
Laszlo Mihaly
Sep 24, 2018

Since Mark Hennings posted the correct solution, I have no choice, but posting an incorrect one :-)

Initially, the rod has a potential energy of m g / 2 mg \ell/2 , where \ell is the length and m m is the mass.

In the final state the rod will rotate around the end that touches the ground. We will assume that this end has no translational velocity. ( This plausible, but is wrong - see Mark's solution for the correct way to do this. ) The rotational kinetic energy is 1 2 I ω 2 \frac {1}{2} I \omega^2 , where I = 1 12 m 2 I=\frac{1}{12}m \ell^2 is the moment of inertia around the end point. The transalational kinetic energy of the center of mass is 1 2 m v c 2 \frac{1}{2} m v_c^2 , where v c = 1 2 ω v_c=\frac{1}{2} \ell \omega . From energy conservation we get

1 2 m g = 1 2 1 12 m 2 ω 2 + 1 2 m 2 4 ω 2 \frac{1}{2} mg\ell= \frac{1}{2} \frac{1}{12} m\ell^2\omega^2+ \frac{1}{2} m \frac{\ell^2}{4}\omega^2

We solve this for ω \omega to get

ω 2 = 3 g \omega^2=\frac{3g}{\ell}

The velocity of the end point is v = ω = 15.58 v=\omega \ell = 15.58 m/s. This is not very different from the correct solution, BUT it is larger, because in the correct solution there is a residual horizontal velocity for the center of mass.

Note that in the correct solution (see Mark Hennings):

ω 2 = 8 3 g \omega^2=\frac{8}{3} \frac{g}{\ell}

i got the same answer with urs. : (

albert yiyi - 2 years, 8 months ago

I dispute the plausibility of the statement that the tip A A of the rod that is always in contact with the ground has no horizontal velocity. That end must have moved away from the wall to "make space" for the rod, even if the other tip B B of the rod always stayed in contact with the wall. Thus the tip A A must have been given a horizontal velocity at some stage; if it were not to have any such velocity at the end of the motion, it must have been decelerated somehow. But there is no suitable force acting towards the wall to produce this deceleration.

More plausible, and much more common, but still wrong, is the assumption that tip B B always remains in contact with the wall. This would predict a final angular velocity of 3 g 2 r \sqrt{\tfrac{3g}{2r}} .

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

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It looks to me that if tip B is always in contact with the wall, than tip A will have no horizontal velocity when the rod is horizontal.

Laszlo Mihaly - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Very true, but that is because tip B B will need to have been held in place (with a negative R R ), which provides the necessary deceleration to slow down tip A A

Mark Hennings - 2 years, 8 months ago

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@Mark Hennings I agree. As I said, I was posting the wrong solution, and you have posted the good one. I did it only because I am sure some of the other people doing this problem will go down the same path.

Laszlo Mihaly - 2 years, 8 months ago

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