Find Ed's numbers

Algebra Level 3

Let a a , b b , and c c be positive real numbers such that a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 = 8 a b c . a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 = 8abc. What is the value of a b c abc ?

This problem is posed by Ed M.


The answer is 8.

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33 solutions

Jimmy Kariznov
Jul 28, 2013

Since a , b , c a,b,c are positive reals, so are a 4 , b 4 , c 4 a^4, b^4, c^4 .

By AM-GM, we have: a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 a 4 b 4 c 4 16 4 = 2 a b c \dfrac{a^4+b^4+c^4+16}{4} \ge \sqrt[4]{a^4 \cdot b^4 \cdot c^4 \cdot 16} = 2abc ,

or equivalently: a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+16 \ge 8abc .

In AM-GM, equality occurs iff all the numbers are equal, i.e. a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4 = b^4 = c^4 = 16 .

Since a , b , c a,b,c are positive reals, we have a = b = c = 2 a = b = c = 2 , and thus, a b c = 8 abc = \boxed{8} .

How do you go from a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b a^4+b^4+c^4+16\geq 8ab to a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 ? a^4=b^4=c^4=16? Where does the 16 pop out from? Where does the 8abc go?

Andrew Ying - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Equality occurs when symmetry does.

Ahaan Rungta - 7 years, 10 months ago

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um...symmetry in what sense? Sorry not too familiar with these terms :P Again, can we just remove the 8abc or something? :O

Andrew Ying - 7 years, 10 months ago

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@Andrew Ying The AM-GM inequality states that if we have n non-negative numbers, the arithmetic mean of those numbers is always greater than or equal to the geometric mean of those numbers. Furthermore, the arithmetic mean and geometric mean are equal if and only if all of the n numbers are equal to each other.

In this problem, the numbers I am considering are a 4 , b 4 , c 4 , 16 a^4, b^4, c^4, 16 . The arithmetic mean of those numbers is equal to the geometric mean of those numbers. Thus, those numbers must be equal, i.e. a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4 = b^4 = c^4 = 16 .

Jimmy Kariznov - 7 years, 10 months ago

@Andrew Ying You can search Arithmetic Mean- Geometric Mean Inequality in the Net

Rindell Mabunga - 7 years, 10 months ago
Hugo Terceiro
Jul 29, 2013

Knowing that A M G M AM \ge GM , and applying that in the LHS, we get

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 ( a b c 2 ) 4 4 \dfrac{a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4}{4} \ge \sqrt[4]{(abc2)^4} a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 8 a b c \rightarrow a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4 \ge 8abc

Since the equality holds, we can say that a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 . Then a b c = 2 × 2 × 2 = 8 abc = 2\times 2\times 2 = 8 .

Thomas Beuman
Jul 29, 2013

Consider the function

f ( a , b , c ) = a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b c f(a,b,c) = a^4+b^4+c^4+16-8abc ,

so that we want to solve f ( a , b , c ) = 0 f(a,b,c) = 0 . Note that a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 is a solution. I will prove that this is an absolute minimum, i.e. that f ( a , b , c ) f(a,b,c) is positive for all ( a , b , c ) ( 2 , 2 , 2 ) (a,b,c) \neq (2,2,2) , from which it follows that this solution is the only one.

First note that f f is differentiable on the entire domain, and that f f tends to positive infinity as a a , b b or c c goes to infinity. The absolute minimum is thus to be found either at a boundary of the domain or at a critical point.

At the boundary (technically, we have an open boundary since a a , b b and c c are not allowed to be zero, but "closing the boundary" will not alter the final conclusion), we have for instance a = 0 a=0 , which gives f ( a , b , c ) = b 4 + c 4 + 16 f(a,b,c) = b^4+c^4+16 , which is obviously at least 16, hence not an absolute minimum (since we've already found f ( 2 , 2 , 2 ) = 0 f(2,2,2) = 0 ). The same of course applies to b = 0 b=0 and c = 0 c=0 .

We are thus left with critical points, for which d f / d a = d f / d b = d f / d c = 0 df/da = df/db = df/dc = 0 . This gives

0 = 4 a 3 8 b c = 4 b 3 8 c a = 4 c 3 8 a b 0 = 4a^3 - 8bc = 4b^3 - 8ca = 4c^3 - 8ab ,

from which we establish a 3 = 2 b c a^3 = 2bc , b 3 = 2 c a b^3 = 2ca and c 3 = 2 a b c^3 = 2ab . Multiplying the equations by a a , b b and c c respectively, we get

a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 2 a b c a^4 = b^4 = c^4 = 2abc ,

with the only solutions a = b = c = 0 a=b=c=0 and a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 . The latter is thus the absolute minimum, which concludes the proof. The only solution to the original equation is thus a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 with a b c = 8 abc = \boxed{8} .

Moderator note:

Make sure you know how to use the tools properly. Multivariable calculus can get tricky, especially if you are thinking only in terms of single variable calculus.

Simply showing that "f tends to positive infinity as a a (or b b ) goes to infinity is not sufficient. You need to consider all possible paths to infinity, and not just the directional derivative.

For example, the minimum of the function g ( a , b ) = a b + b a g(a,b) = \frac{a}{b} + \frac{b}{a} has a minimum of 2 which occurs whenever a = b a=b , even though we know that lim a g ( a , b ) = \lim_{a \rightarrow \infty} g(a,b) = \infty for all positive values of b b .

Much more elaborate than necessary I admit, but it makes a nice change from all the easy solutions... ;)

Thomas Beuman - 7 years, 10 months ago
Eric Edwards
Jul 28, 2013

We are given a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 = 4 ( 2 a b c ) a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4 = 4(2abc) . Cheesy way out: note that a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 works giving the answer of 8. Another way: by AMGM, if they are all positive,

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 2 4 a 4 b 4 c 4 4 \frac{a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4}{4} \geq \sqrt[4]{2^4a^4b^4c^4}

with equality iff a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 .

Hero P.
Jul 28, 2013

By the AM-GM inequality, a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 ( 2 4 a 4 b 4 c 4 ) 1 / 4 = 8 a b c , a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4 \ge 4 (2^4 a^4 b^4 c^4)^{1/4} = 8abc, with equality attained when a = b = c = 2 a = b = c = 2 . Checking, we find 3 ( 2 4 ) + 16 = 64 = 8 ( 2 3 ) , 3(2^4) + 16 = 64 = 8(2^3), so a b c = 8 abc = 8 .

Akshaj Kadaveru
Jul 28, 2013

Notice by AM-GM, a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 16 a 4 b 4 c 4 4 = 2 a b c \dfrac{a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16}{4} \ge \sqrt[4]{16a^4b^4c^4} = 2abc , so a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b c a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 \ge 8abc . Equality occurs when a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4 = b^4 = c^4 = 16 , so a b c = 8 abc = \boxed{8} .

Matt McNabb
Jul 30, 2013

Using the AM-GM inequality : A M ( a 4 , b 4 , c 4 , 2 4 ) G M ( a 4 , b 4 , c 4 , 2 4 ) AM(a^4, b^4, c^4, 2^4) \geqslant GM(a^4, b^4, c^4, 2^4) 1 4 ( a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 ) ( a 4 b 4 c 4 2 4 ) 1 4 \frac{1}{4}(a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4) \geqslant (a^4 b^4 c^4 2^4)^{\frac{1}{4}} 1 4 ( a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 ) 2 a b c \frac{1}{4}(a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4) \geqslant 2abc

The equality case A M = G M AM = GM , which is the original equation, only occurs when all terms are equal, i.e. 2 = a = b = c 2 = a = b = c giving a b c = 8 abc = \boxed{8} .

A M G M AM \geq GM

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 16 a 4 b 4 c 4 4 \frac {a^4+b^4+c^4+16}{4}\geq\sqrt[4]{16a^4b^4c^4}

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+16\geq8abc

and LHS=RHS if a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4=b^4=c^4=16

a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2

so a b c abc = 8

Siddharth Prasad
Jul 29, 2013

We can rewrite the given equation as 16 + a 4 = 4 ( 2 a b c ) . 16+\sum a^4 = 4(2abc). However, by the AM-GM inequality we have $$\frac{1}{4}\left(2^4+\sum a^4\right)\ge\sqrt[4]{2^4+\sum a^4},$$ and equality occurs if and only if a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 , so a b c = 8 abc=\boxed{8}

The solution is easily obtained using AM-GM inequality, and using the fact that equality holds when the quantities are equal to each other.

Here, taking AM GM inequality, we have

a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 >= 8abc which is in fact, an equality here and therefore a^4 = b^4 = c^4 = 16. As we want positive values of a, b, c, we infer a=b=c = 2.

So abc = 8

Zk Lin
Jul 28, 2013

Note that by AM-GM inequality, the expression on the LHS is always greater than or equal to the RHS Equality only occurs when a^{4}=b^{4}=c^{4}=16, that is a=b=c=2, hence abc=8

Sagnik Saha
Jul 28, 2013

We know that for positive reals a,b,c,d we have the inequality a^{4} + b^{4} + c^{4} + d^{4} >= 4abcd putting d=2, we have a^{4} + b^{4} + c^{4} + 2^4 >=4.a.b.c.2 or, a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 >= 8abc but the question suggests that a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 = 8abc This is only possible when the am-gm inequality reduces to am-gm equality, and in am gm equality, we have all the terms to be equal to each other. thus we have, a=b=c=2 which gives abc=8

Reilton Bernardes
Jul 28, 2013

Using the inequality between aritmetic media and harmonic media, we have:

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 a 4 b 4 c 4 16 4 \frac{ a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16}{4} \ge \sqrt[4]{a^4b^4c^416}

Therefore, a 4 + b 4 + c 4 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4 \ge 8abc and the equality happen when a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4=b^4=c^4=16 . So, a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 and a b c = 8 abc=8

Avika Septriani
Aug 4, 2013

From Arithmetic-Geometric mean, for a , b , c a,b,c positive integers we have a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 a 4 . b 4 . c 4 . 2 4 4 = 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+2^4\ge 4\sqrt[4]{a^4.b^4.c^4.2^4}=8abc . Because we have a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 = 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+16=8abc , then equaity holds, which means that a = b = c a=b=c . we can conclude that a , b , c , a,b,c, and 2 2 are the roots from the polynomial 3 x 4 8 x 3 + 16 = 0 3x^4-8x^3+16=0 , then a . b . c . 2 = 16 a.b.c.2=16 , so a b c = 8 abc=8 .

Piyal De
Aug 3, 2013

Since a,b,c are real positive numbers, A.M>= G.M inequality can be used on (a^4),(b^4),(c^4) and . on (2^4). In the given question the R.H.S is the G.M, so equality occurred, so a=b=c=2. So abc=8.

Leonardo Cidrão
Aug 2, 2013

Since a,b,c are real positive, we can analyze AM>=GM: 8abc/4 >= [(2abc)^4]^1/4 =2abc. When the equality occurs means that all terms are equal: a=b=c=2. Therefore: abc=8.

Consider AM-GM inequality a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 a 4 b 4 c 4 2 4 4 \frac{a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4}{4} \geq \sqrt[4]{a^4 \cdot b^4 \cdot c^4 \cdot2^4} a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b c a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 \geq 8abc

The equality is satisfied when a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 Hence value of a b c = 8 abc=8

Russell Few
Aug 1, 2013

By the AM-GM inequality, a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 = a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + ( 2 ) 4 4 ( a ) ( b ) ( c ) ( 2 ) = 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+16=a^4+b^4+c^4+(2)^4 \ge 4(a)(b)(c)(2)=8abc , and equality holds iff a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4=b^4=c^4=16 , i.e. a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 . Hence, the value of a b c abc is ( 2 ) ( 2 ) ( 2 ) = 8 (2)(2)(2)=\boxed{8} .

We let d = 2 d=2 and then the equation becomes a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + d 4 = 4 a b c d a^4+b^4+c^4+d^4=4abcd , so a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + d 4 4 a b c d = 0 a^4+b^4+c^4+d^4-4abcd=0 . That is equivalent to ( a 2 b 2 ) 2 + ( c 2 d 2 ) 2 + 2 ( a b c d ) 2 = 0 (a^2-b^2)^2+(c^2-d^2)^2+2(ab-cd)^2=0 . Since all squares are nonnegative, we need a 2 b 2 = 0 a^2-b^2=0 , c 2 d 2 = 0 c^2-d^2=0 , and a b c d = 0 ab-cd=0 . Since a , b , c , d a, b, c, d are positive integers, we need that a = b a=b , c = d c=d , and a b = c d ab=cd . Hence a 2 = c 2 a^2=c^2 , and a = c a=c . Thus we get a = b = c = d a=b=c=d . Since d = 2 d=2 , a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 , and a b c = ( 2 ) ( 2 ) ( 2 ) = 8 abc=(2)(2)(2)=\boxed{8} .

Russell FEW - 7 years, 10 months ago
Sanjay Meena
Aug 1, 2013

a 4 a^4 + b 4 b^4 + c 4 c^4 + 2 4 2^4 =4(2abc). or we can write

[ a 4 a^4 + b 4 b^4 + c 4 c^4 + 2 4 2^4 ]/4≥( a 4 a^4 b 4 b^4 c 4 c^4 . 2 4 2^4 ) [ 1 / 4 ] ^[1/4]

AM≥GM equality holds if a=b=c=2.

so abc=8

David Vaccaro
Aug 1, 2013

By AM-GM inequality we have a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 2 a b c \frac{a^{4}+b^{4}+c^{4}+2^{4}}{4}\geq2abc with equality iff a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 , hence a b c = 8 abc=8 .

Desmond Kan
Jul 31, 2013

Observe that by AM-GM inequality, you will realize that the given condition is an equality condition. This means that a = b = c = 2. Hence abc = 8.

Kai Chin
Jul 31, 2013

By A M G M AM-GM inequality, a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + d 4 4 a b c d a^4+b^4+c^4+d^4\geq4abcd ,where equality holds at a = b = c = d a=b=c=d .Let d = 2 d=2 yields the given equation to hold when a = b = c = d = 2 a=b=c=d=2 .Then a b c = 8 abc=8

Albert Ho
Jul 30, 2013

Represent 16 as 2^4 and make 8abc expressed as 4(abc(2)). We have: (a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4)/4 = a * b * c * 2 This is the equality situation of the AM-GM on on a, b, c, and 2, which is only satisfied by having a=b=c=2, so abc = 8 .

Debjit Mandal
Jul 30, 2013

Let us apply the A . M . A.M. \geq G . M . G.M. inequality on the four positive reals a 4 a^4 , b 4 b^4 , c 4 c^4 and 16 16 ,
Then we shall get,
a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 \frac{a^4+b^4+c^4+16}{4} \geq 16 a 4 b 4 c 4 4 \sqrt[4]{16a^4b^4c^4}
a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 a^4+b^4+c^4+16 \geq 4.2 a b c 4.2abc
a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 a^4+b^4+c^4+16 \geq 8 a b c 8abc
But we know that, a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 a^4+b^4+c^4+16 = = 8 a b c 8abc
We know that, in the A . M . A.M. \geq G . M . G.M. inequality, the equality holds only when all the terms are equal.
So, a 4 a^4 = = b 4 b^4 = = c 4 c^4 = = 16 16
a a = = b b = = c c = = 2 2
So, a b c abc = 2.2.2 2.2.2 = 8 8 [ANSWER]








Ivan Koswara
Jul 30, 2013

Since a 4 , b 4 , c 4 , 2 4 a^4, b^4, c^4, 2^4 are positive, we can apply AM-GM to a 4 , b 4 , c 4 , 2 4 a^4, b^4, c^4, 2^4 :

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 a 4 b 4 c 4 2 4 4 \dfrac{a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 2^4}{4} \ge \sqrt[4]{a^4 b^4 c^4 2^4}

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 2 a b c \dfrac{a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16}{4} \ge 2abc

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 8 a b c a^4 + b^4 + c^4 + 16 \ge 8abc

Note that the problem achieves an equality, so we must have a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 16 a^4 = b^4 = c^4 = 16 (AM-GM achieves an equality only when all its arguments are equal). Since a , b , c a,b,c are positive, we have a = b = c = 2 a = b = c = 2 and so a b c = 8 abc = \boxed{8} .

Leonardo Chandra
Jul 29, 2013

a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 a^4+b^4+c^4+2^4 = 4 ( 2 a b c ) 4*(2abc) With AM-GM Equality, we can write it as: ( a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 ) / 4 (a^4+b^4+c^4+2^4)/4 ( a 4 b 4 c 4 2 4 ) 1 / 4 (a^4*b^4*c^4*2^4)^{1/4}

To make The AM-GM Equality holds we need to make sure that a=b=c.

The only number that can make it true is 2, so a=b=c=2.

Then, abc=2.2.2=8

Guiping Xie
Jul 29, 2013

If we use AM-GM on the left side we get that a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 2 a b c \frac{a^4+b^4+c^4+2^4}{4} \ge 2abc or a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+2^4 \ge 8abc .

The equality case of this looks like the given equation and we know that equality is met in AM-GM only if all the terms are equal or a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 2 4 a^4=b^4=c^4=2^4 which gives a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 since a , b , c a,b,c are positive integers. Checking to see if this works we get 4 × 16 = 8 × 2 3 4 \times 16 = 8 \times 2^3 which is true. Therefore a b c = 8 abc = \boxed{8} .

S Patel
Jul 29, 2013

Notice that using the AM-GM inequality on the LHS yields the RHS. This means that a^4, b^4, c^4,, and 16 must be equal, meaning that a=b=c=2, and the answer is 8.

Vikram Waradpande
Jul 29, 2013

By AM-GM inequality, we have a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 2 a b c d = 8 a b c d a^4 + b^4 +c^4 + 2^4 \geq 4*2abcd=8abcd We know that equality in AM-GM exists when all the terms are equal. This implies a 4 = b 4 = c 4 = 2 4 a^4 = b^4 = c^4 =2^4 which imples a = b = c = 2 a=b=c=2 because a , b , c a,b,c are positive reals. Hence a b c = 2 2 2 = 8 abc=2*2*2 = \boxed{8}

Whoah, where did d d come from?

Tim Vermeulen - 7 years, 10 months ago

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It was obviously a typographical error.

Ahaan Rungta - 7 years, 10 months ago

Ah, its supposed to be a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 2 4 4 2 a b c = 8 a b c a^4+b^4+c^4+2^4 \geq 4*2abc = 8abc

Vikram Waradpande - 7 years, 10 months ago
Varun Kaushik
Jul 29, 2013

We will use AM-GM inequality ( a 4 + b 4 + c 4 + 16 4 ) ( 16 a 4 b 4 c 4 ) 1 / 4 (\frac{a^{4} + b^{4} +c^{4} + 16}{4}) \geq (16a^{4}b^{4}c^{4})^{1/4} we get AM =GM, \Rightarrow a = b =c = 2 or abc =2

Jatin Yadav
Jul 29, 2013

Let P = (a^{4} + b^{4} +c^{4} + 16) \geq 4 sqrt[4]{16 a^{4}b^{4}c^{4}} (Using AM-GM inequality) \Rightarrow P \geq 8 a b*c since P = 8abc, AM = GM \Rightarrow a = b = c = 2 \Rightarrow abc=2

Consider the 4 4 th powers modulo 8 8 , they comprise only 0 0 & 1 1 . 8 8 divides the LHS, so 8 ( a 4 + b 4 + c 4 ) 8 | (a^4 + b^4 + c^4) But none of 3-combinations of 0 & 1 can add up to 0 ( m o d 2 ) 0 \pmod{2} , except if 8 a 4 8 | a^4 , 8 b 4 8 | b^4 , 8 c 4 8 | c^4 2 a , b , c \Rightarrow 2 | a, b, c . Clearly, a = b = c = 2 a = b = c = 2 suffices.

Ahaan Rungta
Jul 28, 2013

Note that the LHS must be even, since it has a factor of 8 8 . Note that the LHS has the same parity as a 4 + b 4 + c 4 a^4 + b^4 + c^4 , which has the same parity as a + b + c a + b + c . Thus, a + b + c a + b + c must be even. Simply trying a = b = c = 2 a = b = c = 2 works!

Specifically: 2 4 + 2 4 + 2 4 + 16 = 8 2 2 2 , 2^4 + 2^4 + 2^4 + 16 = 8 \cdot 2 \cdot 2 \cdot 2, so a b c = 8 abc = \boxed {8} .

Why do the positive real numbers a , b , c a,b,c have to be integers?

Jimmy Kariznov - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Good point. I should have mentioned that I was considering the integers first, just to make sure that it's not trivial. Turns out it was.

Ahaan Rungta - 7 years, 10 months ago

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