Formula applied ten times?

Algebra Level 3

Here are two numbers: 384 and 128. There are two numbers that sum up to 384 and have a difference of 128. Let's call the greater one N 1 , 1 N_{1,1} and the smaller one N 1 , 2 N_{1,2} . There are two numbers that sum up to N 1 , 1 N_{1,1} and have a difference of N 1 , 2 N_{1,2} . Call the greater one N 2 , 1 N_{2,1} and the smaller one N 2 , 2 N_{2,2} . Continue defining this way until N 10 , 1 N_{10,1} and N 10 , 2 N_{10,2} . What is their product?


The answer is 48.

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4 solutions

We know that N 1 , 1 + N 1 , 2 = 384 and N 1 , 1 N 1 , 2 = 128 N_{1,1} + N_{1,2} = 384 \text{ and } N_{1,1} - N_{1,2} = 128 Then we also have N 2 , 1 + N 2 , 2 = N 1 , 1 and N 2 , 1 N 2 , 2 = N 1 , 2 N_{2,1} + N_{2,2} = N_{1,1} \text{ and } N_{2,1} - N_{2,2} = N_{1,2}

Notice if we sub what N 1 , 1 N_{1,1} and N 1 , 2 N_{1,2} into our original equation we get that N 1 , 1 + N 1 , 2 = 2 N 2 , 1 and N 1 , 1 N 1 , 2 = 2 N 2 , 2 N_{1,1} + N_{1,2} = 2N_{2,1} \text{ and } N_{1,1} - N_{1,2} = 2N_{2,2}

We observe that each time we sub back once that variables in the previous equation are equal to twice the newly introduced ones, for example when we are four layers in we have N 4 , 1 + N 4 , 2 = N 3 , 1 and N 4 , 1 N 4 , 2 = N 3 , 2 N_{4,1} + N_{4,2} = N_{3,1} \text{ and } N_{4,1} - N_{4,2} = N_{3,2}

And so from the following equations N 3 , 1 + N 3 , 2 = N 2 , 1 and N 3 , 1 N 3 , 2 = N 2 , 2 N_{3,1} + N_{3,2} = N_{2,1} \text{ and } N_{3,1} - N_{3,2} = N_{2,2} We get that 2 N 4 , 1 = N 2 , 1 2N_{4,1} = N_{2,1} and that 2 N 4 , 2 = N 2 , 2 2N_{4,2} = N_{2,2} so if we were at N 10 , x N_{10,x} then we would get 5 doublings ending with the equations 2 5 N 10 , 1 = 384 and 2 5 N 10 , 2 = 128 2^{5} N_{10,1} = 384 \text{ and } 2^{5} N_{10,2} = 128

Before we proceed we notice that 128 = 2 7 128 = 2^{7} and 384 = 2 ( 192 ) = 2 2 ( 96 ) = 2 3 48 384= 2\left( 192 \right) = 2^{2} \left( 96 \right) = 2^{3} 48 and so we determine that N 10 , 1 N 10 , 2 = 384 128 2 10 = 48 2 3 2 7 2 10 = 48 N_{10,1} N_{10,2} = \frac{384 \cdot 128}{2^{10} }= \frac{48 \cdot 2^{3} \cdot 2^{7} }{2^{10} }= 48

Good job! This is exactly what I wanted.

Ruilin Wang - 1 year, 10 months ago

The product of the inputs is 49152. Each pair of operations quarters the numbers. 49152 4 5 = 48 \frac{49152}{4^5}=48 .

The successive pairs are : (256,128); (192,64); (128,64); (96,32); (64,32); (48,16); (32,16); (24,8); (16,8); (12,4). Therefore the product of the numbers of the 10th pair is 48.

AH, no! This is way too complicated!

Ruilin Wang - 1 year, 10 months ago

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Why?! The first of the 2n'th pair is 384 2 n \dfrac{384}{2^n} and the second is 128 2 n \dfrac{128}{2^n} . Here n = 5 n=5 .

So the 10'th pair is 384 2 5 \dfrac{384}{2^5} , 128 2 5 \dfrac{128}{2^5} or (12,4).

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 10 months ago

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Yeah, much better.

Ruilin Wang - 1 year, 10 months ago

I thought you actually did it ten times. lol

Ruilin Wang - 1 year, 10 months ago

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@Ruilin Wang That list was given so that readers can get a clear picture.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 10 months ago
Saúl Huerta
Dec 5, 2019

From the introduction of the problem we can easily derive these formulas: N n , 1 = N n + 1 , 1 + N n + 1 , 2 N_{n,1}=N_{n+1,1}+N_{n+1,2} N n , 2 = N n + 1 , 1 N n + 1 , 2 N_{n,2}=N_{n+1,1}-N_{n+1,2} Since this is true for any n n it will also be true for n + 1 n+1 : N n + 1 , 1 = N n + 2 , 1 + N n + 2 , 2 N_{n+1,1}=N_{n+2,1}+N_{n+2,2} N n + 1 , 2 = N n + 2 , 1 N n + 2 , 2 N_{n+1,2}=N_{n+2,1}-N_{n+2,2} Substituting these expressions in the first two equations and simplifying gives us: N n , 1 = 2 N n + 2 , 1 N_{n,1}=2N_{n+2,1} N n , 2 = 2 N n + 2 , 2 N_{n,2}=2N_{n+2,2} Which is still true for any n n so: N 0 , 1 = 2 N 2 , 1 | N 2 , 1 = 2 N 4 , 1 | N 4 , 1 = 2 N 6 , 1 | . . . N_{0,1}=2N_{2,1} \text{|} N_{2,1}=2N_{4,1} \text{|} N_{4,1}=2N_{6,1} \text{|} ... N 0 , 2 = 2 N 2 , 2 | N 2 , 2 = 2 N 4 , 2 | N 6 , 2 = 2 N 8 , 2 | . . . N_{0,2}=2N_{2,2}\text{|}N_{2,2}=2N_{4,2}\text{|}N_{6,2}=2N_{8,2}\text{|}... With N 0 , 1 = 384 N_{0,1}=384 and N 0 , 2 = 128 N_{0,2}=128 , to get N 10 , 1 N_{10,1} and N 10 , 2 N_{10,2} we need to substitute the expressions a total of four times into the initial equation, giving: N 0 , 1 = 384 = 2 5 N 10 , 1 N_{0,1}=384=2^5 \cdot N_{10,1} N 0 , 2 = 128 = 2 5 N 10 , 2 N_{0,2}=128=2^5 \cdot N_{10,2} And their product will be: N 10 , 1 N 10 , 2 = N 0 , 1 N 0 , 2 2 10 N_{10,1}\cdot N_{10,2}=\dfrac{N_{0,1}\cdot N_{0,2}}{2^{10}} = 384 128 2 10 =\dfrac{384\cdot 128}{2^{10}} = 48 2 3 2 7 2 10 =\dfrac{48\cdot 2^3\cdot 2^7}{2^{10}} = 48 =\boxed{48} In the end, we can find any N n , x N_{n,x} number with these two pairs of formulas (one for odd number indexes, and the other for even number indexes): Even: N 0 , 1 = 2 n N 2 n , 1 | N 0 , 2 = 2 n N 2 n , 2 \text{Even:} N_{0,1}=2^{n}\cdot N_{2n,1} \text{|} N_{0,2}=2^{n}\cdot N_{2n,2} Odd: N 1 , 1 = 2 n N 2 n + 1 , 1 | N 1 , 2 = 2 n N 2 n + 1 , 2 \text{Odd:} N_{1,1}=2^{n}\cdot N_{2n+1,1} \text{|} N_{1,2}=2^{n}\cdot N_{2n+1,2}

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