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A triangular loop A B C ABC of light string is passed over two small frictionless pulleys A and B ( A B = B C = A C = 2 l ) (AB = BC = AC = 2l)

Two masses m m and M M are attached at the midpoint O O of A B AB and at point C C , respectively. If m m is released, m m & M M cross each other at any point P P as shown in the figure. Find the minimum value of m M \dfrac {m}{M} so that they cross each other.


The answer is 0.54919338.

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2 solutions

Kishore S. Shenoy
Sep 15, 2015

Answer Answer

The length of the string is 2 l × 3 = 6 l 2l \times 3 = 6l At their crossing point P, the length of the string connecting both the blocks will be equal

\displaystyle\implies Length of the sting connecting the one of the block from one of the pulleys

A P = 6 4 l = 3 2 l \displaystyle AP = \frac {6}{4}l = \frac {3}{2}l

But the length between the pulleys remains same ( = 2 l ) ( = 2l)

Let θ = A B P ^ θ =\widehat{ABP}

cos θ = 2 3 ∴\displaystyle \cos \theta = \frac{2}{3}

sin θ = 3 2 2 2 3 = 5 3 \Rightarrow\displaystyle \sin \theta = \dfrac{ \sqrt{3^2 - 2^2}}{3} = \dfrac{\sqrt{5}}{3}

O P = B P sin θ = 3 2 l × 5 3 = 5 2 l \displaystyle OP = BP \cdot \sin \theta = \frac {3}{2}l \times \frac {\sqrt {5}}{ 3} = \frac {\sqrt {5}}{2}l

Now, for the two blocks to cross each other,
U ( m ) > U ( M ) \displaystyle \left |\bigtriangleup U(m)\right | > \left|\bigtriangleup U(M)\right|

m g 5 2 l > M g ( 3 5 2 ) l \displaystyle \implies mg \frac {\sqrt {5}} {2} l > Mg\left(\sqrt {3}- \frac {\sqrt {5}} {2}\right)l

since l > 0 l>0 and g > 0 g > 0 ,

m 5 2 > M ( 3 5 2 ) \displaystyle m\frac {\sqrt {5}} {2} > M\left( \sqrt {3}- \frac {\sqrt {5}} {2}\right)

m M > 2 3 5 5 \displaystyle \implies \frac {m}{M} > \frac {2\sqrt{3} - \sqrt{5}}{\sqrt {5}}

m M > 0.54919338 \Huge\therefore\displaystyle \boxed {\displaystyle \frac {m}{M} > 0.54919338}

Moderator note:

This is a glorious solution. Excellent diagram, and thoroughly explained. Can you think of a way to solve this without forces?

Please do post these type of questions.I like them a lot man. @Kishore S Shenoy

Surya Prakash - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Thanks! Sure, hehe!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

@Brilliant Physics : How can you do it without considering forces or Energy?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Kishore S Shenoy nice solution :). I couldn't solve it but enjoyed the solution!

Aditya Kumar - 5 years, 8 months ago

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Thanks! Keep doing questions until you are able to do it!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

Yet another beautiful application of energy conservation :-)!I think I saw this problem somewhere...where did you get it?

A Former Brilliant Member - 5 years, 5 months ago

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FIITJEE study material

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 5 months ago

Can u explain why the length AP=3/2 L

Shouvik Mukherjee - 4 years, 9 months ago

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Oh! Sorry for the late response, internet was down.

So, What is the initial length of the string? 2 × 3 = 6 2\ell \times 3 = 6\ell . So, when it is dived into four parts, the length becomes, 6 4 = 3 2 \dfrac{6\ell}4 = \dfrac{3\ell}2 . I hope I am clear!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 4 years, 9 months ago

@Kishore S Shenoy How have you compared the change in potential energies of the two blocks?

Kriti Verma - 3 years, 10 months ago

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In the sense?

Kishore S. Shenoy - 3 years, 10 months ago

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You have written that change PE of mass m > change in PE of M - how does that come?

Kriti Verma - 3 years, 10 months ago

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@Kriti Verma The bodies will cross only if the system has kinetic energy at the crossing point. Hence, if the change in potential energy is negative at point of crossing, the system has kinetic energy will proceed forward.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 3 years, 9 months ago

@Kishore S Shenoy can you please explain |∆U(m)|>|∆U(M)| ?

Hardik Raj - 3 years, 7 months ago

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Since the small mass has to come down, the change in potential of the system due to the smaller mass should be larger than the change in potential of the heavier mass. Here, small refers to small letter m and large, M.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 3 years, 3 months ago

How to solve this problem is solved by force concept

Vaibhav Gupta - 2 years, 10 months ago

This problem is in our FIITJEE study material.. Thanks for such a beautiful solution :)

PhYsiCs LOvER - 2 years, 9 months ago

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can you explain why ∆U(m)>∆U(M) plz. Fellow FIITJEEan here i am not able to comprehend with it.

Lk Kumar - 2 years, 4 months ago

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Because nature seeks for the least energy state. Motion is possible, therefore, only if the change in energy is negative.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 2 years ago

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@Kishore S. Shenoy i still did not understand could you explain it in a different way why why ∆U(m)>∆U(M) ?????

Aryan Bansal - 1 year, 10 months ago

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@Aryan Bansal Okay, I see where you may be coming from.

I'm not stating that Δ U [ m ] > Δ U [ M ] \Delta U[m] > \Delta U [M] . My argument is that, if the masses have to cross, then the total change in energy of the system must be negative. That, in turn, would mean, the gain in energy must by the bigger block must be less than the loss in energy of the smaller block. That way Δ U sys = Δ U [ m ] + Δ U [ M ] < 0 \Delta U_{\text{sys}} = -\left | \Delta U[m]\right |+ -\left | \Delta U[M]\right |<0 . This gives you the required inequality.

Kishore S. Shenoy - 1 year ago

why is potential energy of m > M??????

Aryan Bansal - 1 year, 10 months ago

can you explain why the change in potential of the M block is Mg(sqrt(3) -sqrt(5)/2)l

Divyansh Choudhary - 5 years, 9 months ago

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It's initial height is 3 l \sqrt{3}l from top and final is 5 2 l \dfrac{\sqrt{5}}{2}l . Thus the change is M g ( 3 5 2 ) l Mg\left(\sqrt{3}-\dfrac{\sqrt{5}}{2}\right)l .(Take magnitudes \cdots )

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 9 months ago

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Thanks. Nice solution

Divyansh Choudhary - 5 years, 9 months ago

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@Divyansh Choudhary Thank you!

Kishore S. Shenoy - 5 years, 8 months ago

so the final generalised form you get will be m M 2 η + 1 η + 3 1 \frac { m }{ M } \ge 2\sqrt { \frac { \eta +1 }{ \eta +3 } } -1

m/M>1 , just by using force balance

Tripti Sharma - 2 years, 3 months ago

Can you please type it down, couldn't understand a thing. Would be helpful!

Annirudh kp - 1 year, 10 months ago

Why is AP=(6/4)l

Divyansh Gupta - 8 months ago

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