Gravity vs Electrostatic

Two identical rings of unit radius are placed coaxial. Both has a mass of 1 k g 1kg uniformly distributed over the length. Both contains 1 C 1C of charge uniformly distributed over the length.Distance between the rings is 1 m 1m .I have provided the view of system from Y -Y axis If the magnitude of net force between them comes F n e t F_{net} . Type your answer as 1 0 10 F n e t 10^{-10}F_{net} Details and Assumotions Use G = 6.67 × 1 0 11 N m 2 k g 2 G=6.67×10^{-11}Nm^{2}kg^{-2} , , k = 1 4 π ϵ 0 = 9 × 1 0 9 N m 2 c 2 k=\frac{1}{4π\epsilon_{0}}=9×10^{9}Nm^{2}c^{-2}


The answer is 0.302.

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2 solutions

Steven Chase
Apr 17, 2020

The gravity force is 20 20 orders of magnitude weaker than the electric force, so it can be completely neglected for the purposes of this exercise. Simulation code is attached:

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import math

N = 4000

q = 1.0
k = 9.0*(10.0**9.0)
mult = 10.0**(-10.0)

dtheta1 = 2.0*math.pi/N
dtheta2 = dtheta1

sigma = q/(2.0*math.pi)  # angular charge density

dq1 = sigma*dtheta1
dq2 = sigma*dtheta2

########################################

Fx = 0.0
Fy = 0.0
Fz = 0.0

theta1 = 0.0

while theta1 <= 2.0*math.pi:

    x1 = math.cos(theta1)
    y1 = math.sin(theta1)
    z1 = 0.0

    theta2 = 0.0

    while theta2 <= 2.0*math.pi:

        x2 = math.cos(theta2)
        y2 = math.sin(theta2)
        z2 = 1.0

        Dx = x1 - x2
        Dy = y1 - y2
        Dz = z1 - z2

        D = math.sqrt(Dx**2.0 + Dy**2.0 + Dz**2.0)

        ux = Dx/D
        uy = Dy/D
        uz = Dz/D

        dF = k*dq1*dq2/(D**2.0)

        dFx = dF * ux
        dFy = dF * uy
        dFz = dF * uz

        Fx = Fx + dFx
        Fy = Fy + dFy
        Fz = Fz + dFz

        theta2 = theta2 + dtheta2

    theta1 = theta1 + dtheta1

########################################

F = math.sqrt(Fx**2.0 + Fy**2.0 + Fz**2.0)

print N
print ""
print (mult*Fx)
print (mult*Fy)
print (mult*Fz)
print ""
print (mult*F)

########################################

#>>> 
#1000

#-1.78008384105e-16
#1.10614355009e-16
#-0.302574634525

#0.302574634525
#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#2000

#1.1750479177e-16
#-7.52453408026e-17
#-0.30227198973

#0.30227198973
#>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
#>>> 
#4000

#-3.04951359527e-16
#4.20477183316e-16
#-0.302120836082

#0.302120836082
#>>> 

@Steven Chase Exactly. sir i want to discuss with you that why electrostatic force is much stronger that gravitational force??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 1 month ago

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Nobody really knows, but there are some interesting and exotic speculations. I just read this article on the subject:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2015/12/11/the-greatest-unsolved-problem-in-theoretical-physics-why-gravity-is-so-weak/#3fafe4221826

Steven Chase - 1 year, 1 month ago

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@Steven Chase the question which you reported today. 1) I want electric flux. 2) I was just get up from sleep and was making question so I forgot to give time in the question but i have corrected it. After this the 3) point vanished

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 1 month ago

@Steven Chase did you deleted your solution to that question??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 1 month ago

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@A Former Brilliant Member Yes, because I wanted to revise it and repost it. But now, I don't have the option to repost it. That's strange

Steven Chase - 1 year, 1 month ago

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@Steven Chase @Steven No problem sir. I like you code also it gives me idea that how to make code. I am deleting and reposting it.

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 1 month ago
Karan Chatrath
Apr 18, 2020

Nice exercise comparing the strengths of two fundamental forces of nature. I have not followed the coordinate convention exactly as in the problem statement.

Let the centre of one ring be ( 0.5 , 0 , 0 ) (0.5,0,0) and another ring be ( 0.5 , 0 , 0 ) (-0.5,0,0) . A point on either ring can be parametrised as:

r 1 = ( 0.5 , cos A , sin A ) \vec{r}_1 = (0.5,\cos{A}, \sin{A}) r 2 = ( 0.5 , cos B , sin B ) \vec{r}_2 = (-0.5,\cos{B}, \sin{B})

The electrostatic force exerted by a charge element on ring 1 on that of ring 2 is:

d F e = K 4 π 2 ( r 2 r 1 r 2 r 1 3 ) d A d B d\vec{F}_e = \frac{K}{4\pi^2} \left(\frac{\vec{r}_2-\vec{r}_1}{\lvert \vec{r}_2-\vec{r}_1 \rvert^3}\right)dA \ dB

Considering only the X- component of force as the other components must cancel out due to symmetry:

d F e , x = K 4 π 2 ( d A d B ( 1 + ( cos B cos A ) 2 + ( sin B sin A ) 2 ) 3 / 2 ) dF_{e,x} = -\frac{K}{4\pi^2} \left(\frac{dA \ dB}{\left(1 + (\cos{B}-\cos{A})^2+ (\sin{B}-\sin{A})^2\right)^{3/2}}\right)

F e , x = K 4 π 2 0 2 π 0 2 π d A d B ( 1 + ( cos B cos A ) 2 + ( sin B sin A ) 2 ) 3 / 2 F_{e,x} = -\frac{K}{4\pi^2} \int_{0}^{2 \pi} \int_{0}^{2 \pi}\frac{dA \ dB}{\left(1 + (\cos{B}-\cos{A})^2+ (\sin{B}-\sin{A})^2\right)^{3/2}}

The same principle can be applied to gravity force. However, in this case, the gravity force is scaled by the universal gravitational constant which means that its magnitude will be several orders of magnitude weaker than electrostatic force. It is therefore neglected altogether.

The answer comes out to be:

F e , x = 13.2459 K 4 π 2 F_{e,x} = -13.2459\frac{K}{4\pi^2} 1 0 10 F e , x = 13.2459 ( 1 0 10 K 4 π 2 ) 0.302 \implies 10^{-10} \lvert F_{e,x} \rvert = 13.2459 \left(\frac{10^{-10} K}{4\pi^2} \right) \approx 0.302

@Karan Chatrath Nice solution, I upvoted it. Can you please help me in this diffrential equation. d y d x = x 2 + y x x y \frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{x^{2}+y}{x-xy} By putting y = v x y=vx I reached this expression but after that i can't able to solve d x 1 v x = d v 1 + v 2 \frac{dx}{1-vx}=\frac{dv}{1+v^{2}}

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 1 month ago

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The result you obtained can be re-written as follows:

d x d v = 1 v x 1 + v 2 \frac{dx}{dv} = \frac{1-vx}{1+v^2} d x d v + v x 1 + v 2 = 1 1 + v 2 \implies \frac{dx}{dv} + \frac{vx}{1+v^2} = \frac{1}{1+v^2}

Recognising that the integrating factor is 1 + v 2 \sqrt{1+v^2} gives:

1 + v 2 d x d v + v x 1 + v 2 = 1 1 + v 2 \sqrt{1+v^2}\frac{dx}{dv}+\frac{vx}{\sqrt{1+v^2}}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1+v^2}}

d d v ( x 1 + v 2 ) = 1 1 + v 2 \implies \frac{d}{dv}\left(x\sqrt{1+v^2}\right) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1+v^2}}

Integrating:

x 1 + v 2 = ln ( v + 1 + v 2 ) + C x\sqrt{1+v^2} = \ln\left(v+\sqrt{1+v^2}\right) + C x = ln ( y x + 1 + ( y x ) 2 ) + C 1 + ( y x ) 2 \implies x = \frac{\ln\left(\frac{y}{x}+\sqrt{1+\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2}\right) + C}{\sqrt{1+\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)^2}}

Karan Chatrath - 1 year, 1 month ago

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@Karan Chatrath Thankyou sir. How can i upvote this comment??

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 1 month ago

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