Gummed up hula-hoop

A gumball of mass m m traveling with velocity v 0 v_0 in the x ^ \hat{x} direction collides tangentially with a stationary hula-hoop of mass M M of radius R R (lying in the xy plane) and sticks. What is the angular frequency of the hoop and bead conglomerate (in milliradian/s ) after the collision?

Details and assumptions

  • The entire system is in a space that has no gravitational forces.
  • M M = 2 kg
  • m m = 30 g
  • R R = 0.2 m
  • v 0 v_0 = 1 m/s
  • Express your answer to the nearest whole number


The answer is 74.

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7 solutions

Nitin Jain
Dec 14, 2013

Clearly, since there is no net external force acting, linear momentum of the system will be conserved. So, we get the final velocity as, v f = m × v 0 m + M 1 v_f=\frac{m\times v_0}{m+M}\ldots\boxed1 Now,let the impulse which acted upon the gum ball as well as the hula-loop is J. Applying Impulse-Momentum Theorem, on gum ball, ( m × v 0 ) J = m ( v f + ω × R ) 2 (m\times v_0)-J=m(v_f+\omega\times R)\ldots \boxed2 Applying AIMT on hula loop, we get J × R = M R 2 × ω J\times R=MR^2\times \omega J = M R ω 3 \Rightarrow J=MR\omega\ldots\boxed3 From equations 2 and 3 we get, m v 0 M R ω = m ( v f + ω R ) mv_0-MR\omega=m(v_f+\omega R) ω = m × ( v 0 v f ) R × ( m + M ) 4 \Rightarrow \omega =\frac{m\times (v_0-v_f)}{R\times (m+M)}\ldots \boxed4 Solving equations 1 and 4 and putting the values,we get ω = 0.07279 r a d / s \omega = 0.07279 rad/s ω = 72.79 m i l l i r a d / s \Rightarrow \boxed{\omega=72.79 millirad/s} Rounding off to nearest whole number, we get 73 A n s \boxed{73 \ldots Ans}

Hey y'all, here is my solution which works for all values of m m , M M :

There are no external torques on the system, so the angular momentum of the hoop and bead is conserved.

It is not too hard to calculate the angular momentum of the hoop and bead in the center of mass frame, before the collision. The center of mass of the system moves at a constant velocity along x ^ \hat{x} with velocity v c o m = v o m m + M \displaystyle v_{com} = v_o\frac{m}{m+M} . The vertical position of the center of mass is similarly given by y c o m = R m m + M \displaystyle y_{com} = R\frac{m}{m+M} .

In this frame, the velocity of the bead relative to the center of mass is v o v c o m \displaystyle v_o-v_{com} and the velocity of the hoop is v c o m \displaystyle v_{com} . The perpendicular distance of the bead to the center of mass is given by R y c o m \displaystyle R-y_{com} and the perpendicular distance of the center of the hoop to the center of mass of the system is given by y c o m \displaystyle y_{com} . The angular momentum of the system is then

L = m ( R y c o m ) ( v o v c o m ) + M y c o m v c o m = m M m + M M m + M v o R + M m m + M m m + M v o R = v o R m M m + M \begin{aligned} L&=m\left(R-y_{com}\right)\left(v_o-v_{com}\right) + My_{com}v_{com} \\ &=m\frac{M}{m+M}\frac{M}{m+M}v_oR+M\frac{m}{m+M}\frac{m}{m+M}v_oR \\ &= v_oR\frac{mM}{m+M} \end{aligned}

Now we know L L which is equal to I ω I\omega . All that remains is to calculate the moment of the inertia of the hoop and bead about the center of mass.

The moment of inertia is an integral quantity, and we can add up the moments of the bead and hoop. The bead is easy, it is located R y c o m \displaystyle R-y_{com} from the center of mass so its moment is m ( R y c o m ) 2 \displaystyle m\left(R-y_{com}\right)^2 .

We can work out the moment of inertia for the hoop with the parallel axis theorem. Any object of mass M M with moment of inertia I I about its own center of mass has moment of inertia I + M d 2 \displaystyle I+Md^2 about a parallel axis located d d from its center of mass. Therefore, the moment of inertia of the hoop about the center of mass is given by M R 2 + M y c o m 2 \displaystyle MR^2+My_{com}^2 .

Altogether:

I = I h o o p + I b e a d = M R 2 + M R 2 ( m m + M ) 2 + m R 2 ( M m + M ) 2 = M R 2 ( m + M ) 2 ( ( m + M ) 2 + m 2 + m M ) = M R 2 ( m + M ) 2 ( m 2 + 2 M m + M 2 + m 2 + m M ) = M R 2 ( m + M ) 2 ( 2 m 2 + 3 M m + M 2 ) \begin{aligned} I &= I_{hoop} + I_{bead} \\ &=MR^2+MR^2\left(\frac{m}{m+M}\right)^2+mR^2\left(\frac{M}{m+M}\right)^2 \\ &=\frac{MR^2}{\left(m+M\right)^2}\left( \left(m+M\right)^2+m^2+mM \right) \\ &=\frac{MR^2}{\left(m+M\right)^2}\left(m^2+2Mm+M^2+m^2+mM\right) \\ &=\frac{MR^2}{\left(m+M\right)^2}\left(2m^2+3Mm+M^2\right) \end{aligned}

Now, ω = L I \displaystyle\omega = \frac{L}{I}

ω = v o R m M m + M ( m + M ) 2 M R 2 1 2 m 2 + 3 M m + M 2 \displaystyle\omega = v_oR \frac{mM}{m+M}\frac{\left(m+M\right)^2}{MR^2}\frac{1}{2m^2+3Mm+M^2}

And just like that ω = v o R m ( M + m ) 2 m 2 + 3 m M + M 2 \boxed{\displaystyle\omega = \frac{v_o}{R}\frac{m\left(M+m\right)}{2m^2+3mM+M^2}}

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Hi Josh!

I think you missed Nishant's reply. Isn't your expression same as Samuel's?

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 5 months ago

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How about that, it does simplify to Samuel's expression indeed. I didn't realize that before.

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Josh Silverman does it simplify Josh ,..... i do not see that happening .... it simplifies to that of Nishant Rai...

Chitres Guria - 7 years, 3 months ago

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@Chitres Guria 2 m 2 + 3 m M + M 2 = ( m + M ) ( 2 m + M ) 2m^2+3mM+M^2=\left(m+M\right)\left(2m+M\right)

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 3 months ago

Thanks! I got it.

Shubham Maurya - 7 years, 5 months ago

rather put the values Josh ....answer would be 72.81 rounded to 73

Chitres Guria - 7 years, 3 months ago

I used conservation of angular momentum to do this problem, and I ended up with

but I ended up with w = 1000 m v 0 m + M = 73.89 w = \frac {1000mv_0}{m+M} = 73.89 which rounds up to 74.

Samuel Jackson - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Did you take the shift in the center of mass of the system into account?

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but why would a shift in the center of mass affect angular momentum?

Samuel Jackson - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Samuel Jackson So, the angular momentum is calculated with respect to some point, the center of mass of the system being the easiest place (the center of rotation). Depending on where the point of reference is, the angular momentum will be different.

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Josh Silverman After applying conservation with respect to the center of mass, I get w = m v 0 R ( 2 m + M ) w = \frac{mv_0}{R(2m+M)} , which is 72.81. Is this the correct expression?

Samuel Jackson - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Samuel Jackson Still needs some work. Did you remember to account for the change in the moment of inertia?

That aside, it seems like I picked the worst numbers possible for this problem!

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Josh Silverman I'll try it again. Meanwhile, can you post the correct expression?

Samuel Jackson - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Samuel Jackson Sure:

ω = v i R m ( M + m ) 2 m 2 + 3 m M + M 2 \boxed{\displaystyle\omega = \frac{v_i}{R}\frac{m\left(M+m\right)}{2m^2+3mM+M^2}}

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Josh Silverman Isn't that the same as , o m e g a = ( v R ) ( m M + 2 m ) omega= (\frac {v}{R})(\frac {m}{M+2m}) After cancelling the factors. So isn't the answer a bit different.

Nishant Rai - 7 years, 5 months ago

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@Nishant Rai really mine was this too.......

Chitres Guria - 7 years, 3 months ago

@Josh Silverman what does Vi stands for...... explain

Chitres Guria - 7 years, 3 months ago

This solution works because the gumball mass is small compared to the hula hoop, but it does not work in general.

Can you think of how things change when the mass of the gumball is on the same order of magnitude as the mass of the hula hoop?

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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I am not sure but can't we simply use conservation of angular momentum about the centre of hoop? Since we are only concerned about the angular velocity, angular momentum conservation should suffice. I did this and plugged in the numbers to get an approximate answer of 73.89 73.89 .

Pranav Arora - 7 years, 5 months ago

If no one gets it in a few days I'll post a general treatment.

Josh Silverman Staff - 7 years, 5 months ago

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but i conserved angular momentum about the point of collision and got 73.89 as the answer

Shikhar Jaiswal - 7 years, 3 months ago

it is the right answer however. If the gumball is assumed to be a point mass, then answer is 74. But, conserving angular momentum about center of mass of the system is justified.

Shubham Maurya - 7 years, 5 months ago
Maedhros 777
Dec 17, 2013

Angular momentum is conserved before and after the collision, so m v 0 R = I ω mv_0R = I\omega The hula-hoop may be modeled as a ring and therefore has moment of inertia MR^2, while the gumball is a point mass with moment of inertia mR^2. m v 0 R = ( M R 2 + m R 2 ) ω = R 2 ( M + m ) ω mv_0R = (MR^2 + mR^2)\omega = R^2(M+m)\omega ω = m v 0 R R 2 ( M + m ) = m v 0 R ( M + m ) = ( 30 ) ( 1 ) ( 0.2 ) ( 2000 + 30 ) = 0.073 9 rad / s = 74 mrad / s \omega = \frac{mv_0R}{R^2(M+m)} = \frac{mv_0}{R(M+m)} = \frac{(30)(1)}{(0.2)(2000+30)} = \SI[per-mode=symbol]{0.0739}{\radian\per\second} = \SI[per-mode=symbol]{74}{\milli\radian\per\second}

thanks a lot

amgalan amgaa - 7 years, 4 months ago
Siddharth Shah
Dec 21, 2013

for the hula-loop + gumball as system, we have the linear momentum conserved as there is no external force acting on the system(No gravity even). Hence m × v 0 = ( M + m ) × v f m\times v_{0} = (M+m) \times v_{f} . This gives us that v f v_{f} = 3/203. Now, angular frequency w = v f v_{f} / R. which gives us the ans = 0.074 Hence w in millirads/sec = 74 \boxed{74}

Jason Fernandes
Mar 1, 2014

By law of conservation of angular momentum:
initial angular momentum of system = final angular momentum of system
initially the hoop is at rest and the ball is moving
initial L = mvR
finally both the hoop and the ball are rotating
angular momentum of the loop is MR^2w and that of the ball is mR^2w
final L = MR^2w + mR^2w = wR^2(m+M)
final L = initial L
mvR = wR^2(m+M)
w = mv/(R(m+M))
substituting values we get w=73.891 millirad/s





Su Ku
Jan 5, 2014

We can conserve the Angular Momentum of the system about a point at the same horizontal level as center of the hulahoop. Initial Angular Momentum is mvR and final Angular Momentum is Iw. [Assumption involves that m<<<M, so the center of mass of the combined system is still at the center of hulahoop and thus the spin angular momentum is Iw.]

Shivam Khosla
Dec 25, 2013

Apply conservation of momentum .......mv0=>(m+M)v....v=Rw......find w by solving this

Minh Tran
Dec 18, 2013

Since the whole system has no external forces, the angular momentum is conserved. I know it will be easier if I draw a figure, but let just imagine:

Before the collision: only the bead is moving, so angular momentum of the system to the hoop's center is: L1 = m vo R

After the collision: in the hoop's frame of references, angular momentum is still conserved, so the angular momentum is:

L2= I w (angular momentum of the hoop) + m v R (angular momentum of the bead) Also, because v=w R:

L2= w*R^2(M+m)

Because L1=L2 (conservation of angular momentum):

m vo R=w*R^2(M+m)

=> w=m*vo/(M+m)R = 0.0738 rad/s or 74 milirad/s

I'm ready to defense my answer.

So I mentioned that L2 = Iw + mvR, which is the combination of the two angular momentums with respect to the same point, O, which is the center of rotation.

Angular momentum of the loop alone is I*w, because its center of mass is also its center of rotation

Velocity of the bead according to the moving center O of the hoop (right after the collision) is v=w*R, because that is the hoop's frame of reference. So the angular momentum must be mvR

At least that's what I learned.

Minh Tran - 7 years, 5 months ago

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