An algebra problem by An Phạm

Algebra Level 1

x = 1 2 7 + 1 2 x + 7 3 3 \large x=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{x+7}}

x = 1 x=1 is a solution to the equation above. Are there any other real solutions to the equation?

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11 solutions

Steven Yuan
Jan 30, 2018

Let f ( x ) = 1 2 x + 7 3 . f(x) = \dfrac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{x + 7}. Then, the equation is equivalent to f ( f ( x ) ) = x . f(f(x)) = x. Since f f is monotonically increasing, the only way that this can be true is if f ( x ) = x f(x) = x ; if f ( x ) > x , f(x) > x, then f ( f ( x ) ) > f ( x ) > x , f(f(x)) > f(x) > x, and if f ( x ) < x , f(x) < x, then f ( f ( x ) ) < f ( x ) < x . f(f(x)) < f(x) < x. Therefore, we have

1 2 x + 7 3 = x x + 7 = 8 x 3 8 x 3 x 7 = 0 ( x 1 ) ( 8 x 2 + 8 x + 7 ) = 0. \begin{aligned} \dfrac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{x + 7} &= x \\ x + 7 &= 8x^3 \\ 8x^3 - x - 7 &= 0 \\ (x - 1)(8x^2 + 8x + 7) &= 0. \end{aligned}

The discriminant of the quadratic is 8 2 4 ( 8 ) ( 7 ) = 160 < 0 , 8^2 - 4(8)(7) = -160 < 0, so the only real solution to the equation is x = 1 . x = \boxed{1}.

I guess you did a little mistake. The formula should be 8x^3-x-7=0. But in the end the result is correct though.

Danny Lade - 3 years, 4 months ago

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Thanks for the correction! I've edited my solution.

Steven Yuan - 3 years, 4 months ago

Since is monotonically increasing, the only way that this can be true is if ....

I don’t understand why that holds Can someone explain please

Antoni Ivanov - 3 years, 4 months ago

your method gives better insight of the problem

Yash Ghaghada - 3 years, 4 months ago

Your method is elegant.

Leonblum Iznotded - 2 years, 10 months ago
Bryan Hung
Feb 5, 2018

Here is a slick way to look at this. Since x = 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + x 3 3 x = \frac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+x}} , we can substitute x for itself in a continued radical style to get:

x = 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + x 3 3 3 3 x = \frac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+ \frac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+x}}}}

This can be chained infinitely:

x = 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + 1 2 7 + 3 3 3 3 x = \frac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+ \frac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+\cdots}}}}

We now substitute the entire second iteration onwards for x:

x = 1 2 7 + x 3 x = \frac{1}{2} \sqrt[3]{7+x}

This reduces to basic algebra! Manipulating this into a cubic and factoring out (x-1), we obtain a quadratic with no real solutions.

Moderator note:

Can you spot the error in this proof? It's slightly technical, so read the comments if you can't identify the misconception.

What's your justification for being able to replace the x x in the radical with the entire expression? It seems like there's an underlying assumption you're making about the solutions to the equation that requires a more in-depth look.

Steven Yuan - 3 years, 4 months ago

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He applicate function f(x) = Right part of the task to both sides of the equation and gets second line. After that, he applicates this function infinite times, and gets the third line.

Андрей Фасалов - 3 years, 4 months ago

The original expression states that x = something. You can simply substitute x for that something, since you know it to be true, as it is given in the original problem.

Iskander Elderson - 3 years, 4 months ago

whoa! awesome man, didnt think of this!

Sidharth Shambu - 3 years, 4 months ago

exactly what i did

Yash Ghaghada - 3 years, 4 months ago

amazing!!!

Égon Borges - 3 years, 4 months ago

Awesome !!!

Murugesh M - 3 years, 2 months ago

You have to be careful with such substitutions. They need not hold true in general. Here is a contrived example: How many solutions are there to x = 1 1 x x = \frac{1}{ \frac{1}{x} } ?

If we proceed as you did, and said that x = 1 1 1 x= \frac{1}{ \frac{1}{ \frac{1} {\vdots} } } , and then concluded that x = 1 x x= \frac{1}{x} , we would say that the only solutions are x = 1 , 1 x = 1, -1 .

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Yeah I figured there was something fishy. Perhaps such substitutions hold as long as the limit of that "substitution chain" exists? It does seem like not the easiest thing to prove here though.

Bryan Hung - 2 years, 8 months ago

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In general, f ( f ( ( x ) ) = x ⇏ f ( x ) = x f(f((x) ) = x \not \Rightarrow f(x) = x . However, in certain cases (where we need to explain why the extra condition helps), like if f ( x ) f(x) is an increasing function, then the conclusion is valid.

Do you see how to show that f ( f ( x ) ) = x f(f(x) ) = x and f ( x ) f(x) is increasing implies that f ( x ) = x f(x) = x ?
Is it true that f ( f ( x ) ) = x f(f(x) ) = x and f ( x ) f(x) is decreasing implies that f ( x ) = x f(x) = x ?


The error here is very similar to saying that

x = 1 1 + 1 + 1 1 + 1 1 x = 1 x x = 1 2 x = 1 - 1 + 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 \ldots \Rightarrow x = 1 - x \Rightarrow x = \frac{1}{2}

You assumed that the limit exists, which is when the substitution is permitted (with further justification). In the case of iterated f ( x ) = 1 x f(x) = \frac{1}{x} , we see that the value toggles back every other time.

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 8 months ago

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@Calvin Lin I think I see: If f f is increasing, then a > b f ( a ) > f ( b ) a>b \implies f(a) > f(b) . Now suppose that for some a a , b b , we have f ( f ( a ) ) = a f(f(a)) = a , and assume for contradiction that f ( a ) = b a f(a) = b \not = a . Then by substitution we also have f ( b ) = a f(b) = a . Now consider just the two facts f ( a ) = b f(a) = b , f ( b ) = a f(b) = a and assume WLOG that a > b a>b . Then both f ( a ) > f ( b ) f(a) > f(b) by increasing property and f ( b ) > f ( a ) f(b) > f(a) by substitution, contradiction.

Bryan Hung - 2 years, 8 months ago

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@Bryan Hung Essentially yes, but your writeup is slightly convluted.

The simpler approach is to do a proof by contradiction. Suppose a > f ( a ) a > f(a) , then this implies that f ( a ) > f ( f ( a ) ) f(a) > f(f(a)) , hence we cannot have a = f ( f ( a ) ) a = f(f(a)) . LIkewise, if a < f ( a ) a < f(a) , we get a contradiction. Hence, we can conclude that a = f ( a ) a = f(a) .

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 8 months ago
An Phạm
Jan 28, 2018

If we assign t = 1 2 x + 7 3 t=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{x+7} , we have:

{ x = 1 2 t + 7 3 t = 1 2 x + 7 3 \begin{cases} x=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{t+7}\\ t=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{x+7} \end{cases}

{ 2 x = t + 7 3 2 t = x + 7 3 \Leftrightarrow \begin{cases} 2x=\sqrt[3]{t+7}\\ 2t=\sqrt[3]{x+7} \end{cases}

{ 8 x 3 = t + 7 8 t 3 = x + 7 \Leftrightarrow \begin{cases} 8x^3=t+7 \\ 8t^3=x+7 \end{cases}

Assuming that x t x 3 t 3 8 x 3 8 t 3 t + 7 x + 7 t x \underline{x\leq t}\Leftrightarrow x^3\leq t^3\Leftrightarrow 8x^3\leq 8t^3\Leftrightarrow t+7\leq x+7\Leftrightarrow \underline{t\leq x}

We can see that x x is both greater or equal to t t and less or equal to t t . So x = t x=t

8 x 3 = x + 7 \Rightarrow 8x^3=x+7

Solving the equation gives us the only real solution, x=1 \fbox{x=1} .

Satisfactory answer.... I remembered some tricks which my maths teacher used to tell us.... Like if the question is too big then it can be shortened by taking t.......

Sonali Santra - 3 years, 4 months ago

How do you get x = 1 2 t + 7 3 x=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{t+7} from t = 1 2 x + 7 3 t=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{x+7} ?

Iskander Elderson - 3 years, 4 months ago

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Replace it into x = 1 2 7 + 1 2 x + 7 3 3 x=\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{7+\frac{1}{2}\sqrt[3]{x+7}}

An Phạm - 3 years, 4 months ago

The simplest way is to realize that cube root is a bijection, as is any other odd root (including 9th root), so this could only possibly have one solution.

Yakov Shalunov - 3 years, 3 months ago
Kelvin Rivera
Feb 6, 2018

Let f ( t ) = 1 2 ( t + 7 ) 1 / 3 f(t) = \frac{1}{2} (t+7)^{1/3} and g ( t ) = 8 t 3 7 g(t) = 8t^3 -7 . Because g g is the unique inverse of f f , the problem becomes finding a solution x x satisfying f ( x ) = g ( x ) f(x) =g(x) . However, inverses can only intersect on the line L ( t ) = t L(t)=t , so we have that g ( x ) = x g(x) = x . This equation is a cubic with only one root, x = 1 x=1 .

Oh, this is a very concise solution. Probably my favorite one here! Thanks for sharing.

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 4 months ago

@Kelvin Rivera @Pi Han Goh The answer of f ( x ) = f 1 ( x ) f(x)=f^{-1}(x) is not only f ( x ) = f 1 ( x ) = x f(x)=f^{-1}(x)=x . For example f ( x ) = 1 x f(x)=\frac{1}{x} . In this case f ( x ) = f 1 ( x ) f(x)=f^{-1}(x) for all x 0 x \neq 0 .

Chan Lye Lee - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Ah good counterpoint!!

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 1 month ago
Buildings1772 .
Feb 9, 2018

weak proof: Plotting the function shows a straight line even on very large scales, which means y = 0 at only 1 point, (at 1)

Kimberly Rose
Feb 7, 2018

Algebraic manipulation of the equation gives 16 x 3 14 = \root 3 \of x + 7 16x^3-14=\root 3\of{x+7} . The functions y = 16 x 3 14 y=16x^3-14 and y = \root 3 \of x + 7 y=\root 3\of{x+7} are increasing, and so their graphs only intersect at one point, x = 1 x=1 .

The fact that they are both increasing is not enough to conclude that they have a single intersection point - which is true but needs more careful consideration.

Daniele Ghisi - 3 years, 4 months ago
Peter Macgregor
Feb 5, 2018

I struck lucky with this question!

The question set up invited a solution by a numerical method. I used my calculator to iterate

0.5 × 7 + 0.5 A N S + 7 3 3 0.5 \times \sqrt[3]{7+0.5 \sqrt[3]{ANS+7}}

By chance I chose ANS = 1 as my starting point, and so the answer popped out with a single iteration!

With other starting values the convergence to the solution is gratifyingly rapid.

Hmmm, how do you know that any starting point will always converge to 1?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 4 months ago
Lucas Boisneau
Feb 11, 2018

One way of answering this question is by using chance. Since there are two possible answers, we have 50% chance to give the correct answer. It worked. Thanks chance !

This is a 9 degree polynomial function so there is 9 solutions to this equation

Hmmm, are you saying that the current answer is wrong?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 4 months ago
Br Zhong
Feb 6, 2018

Roughly draw the diagram of y=8*x^3 and of y=7+(x+3)^(3/2).

And you easily know that the former derivative is greater than the latter one :P

Danny Lade
Feb 5, 2018

I just thought about the look of the function

(1) f ( x ) = 8 x 3 x 7 f(x)=8x^3-x-7

Therefore I calculated the extreme values using the derivative f ( x ) = 24 x 2 1 f‘(x)=24x^2-1 , which are x 1 , 2 = ± ( 1 / 24 ) x_{1,2}=\pm\sqrt(1/24) .

Both values used in equation (1) are negative therefore it exist only one solution (where the equation is zero).

How did you formulate the function f ( x ) = 8 x 3 x 7 f(x) = 8x^3 - x - 7 ? And what is its significance?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 4 months ago

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