Have You Lost Your Marbles?

In Math class, you and the school bully get into a fight. Of course its the other boy's fault :-) The Math professor calls you both to his chambers, listens to your arguments and says,

"Boys, on the table you can see 11 marbles. The two of you are going to take turns removing the marbles from the table. On your turn, you can choose to take either one, two or three marbles. Whoever ends up taking the last marble from the table will go into detention."

Since you are the Math Professors favorite student, he slyly winks at you and gives you the chance to go first.

How many marbles should you pick up from the table in your first chance to avoid detention and justify the faith your Math prof has in you?

3 2 1 It does not matter

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8 solutions

Satyen Nabar
Mar 7, 2014

The crux is to reach 6 marbles. After that you whatever the school bully may choose to pick up you can force him to pick the last marble. The only way to ensure that is by picking up 2 marbles in your first chance.

Can you provide more explanation?
Why 6 marbles? I don't think 6 is crucial.
What is the strategy that should be used?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 3 months ago

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Dear Calvin, the reason I mentioned 6 as crucial is for the following reason.

On the school bully's turn if you have left 5 marbles remaining on the table, then lets see the possibilities---

a) he picks 1 marble, you pick up 3 leaving last marble on table.

b)he picks 2 marbles, you pick up 2 leaving last marble on table.

c) he picks 3 marbles you pick 1 leaving last marble on table.

The strategy of opening move can now be discovered---

a) If i pick up 1 marble on my first turn, the bully picks up 1, now whatever i pick up whether its 1, 2 or 3 on my turn he picks up 3, 2, 1 respectively to reach 6 and leave 5 marbles on the table.

b)If i pick up 3 marbles on first move, the bully will pick up 3 to reach 6 and leave 5 marbles on table.

c) If i pick 2 marbles the following possibilities can result

1) Bully picks 1 -- i pick 3 to reach 6

2) Bully picks 2 -- i pick 2 to reach 6

3) Bully picks 3-- i pick 1 to reach 6 and leave 5 marbles on tables from where i cannot lose as explained earlier.

Hence the opening move has to be to pick 2 marbles.

Satyen Nabar - 7 years, 3 months ago

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Your first paragraph justifies why the person that is left with 5 marbles (on his turn) will lose. This is a simple approach to find all such losing positions.

I see that you meant "The crux of the problem is to see whose turn would have picked up 6 marbles (and hence leave 5 left on the table)", whereas I interpreted it as "The crux is to reach 6 marbles (left on the table)".

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 3 months ago

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@Calvin Lin Dear Calvin you are right. The first explanation was too brief and ambiguous. I should have explained it in greater detail. Thanks for raising the query.:)

Satyen Nabar - 7 years, 3 months ago

@Calvin Lin Could you post a note explaining how to solve such problems in general? I mean, this was quite simple to solve since the number of marbles on the table was small - 11 11 . What if we were given any n n ? Correct me if I am wrong, but even over there, if n n was odd, then we'd benefit by picking 2 2 marbles. However, what I want to know is how to solve similar problems. It'd be great if there could be a post on that!

Parth Thakkar - 7 years, 3 months ago

6 marbles????

Sayam Chakravarty - 7 years, 3 months ago

Dear Sayam what I intended to say and which I have clarified further after Calvins query is that the crux is to leave 5 marbles on the table with the bully to take his turn.

Satyen Nabar - 7 years, 3 months ago

2 is not an appropriate answer in case of following condition. 1) If I pick up 2 marbles and the bully picks up 1 marble (8 marbles remaining). 2) Again I pick up 2 marbles and the bully again picks 1 marble. (5 marbles remaining). 3) Now for remaining 5 marbles there are 3 possibilities as first turn is mine. a)If I pick up 1 marble and the bully picks up 3 marbles and I'll get detention so I'll not pick up 1 marble. b) If I pick up 2 marbles and the bully picks up 3 marbles so again same I"ll not pick up 2 marbles to avoid detention. c) If I pick up 3 marbles and the bully picks up 1 marbles so this condition is also not in favour of me. So in this case 2 is not valid answer. In fact in the beginning it does not matter how many marbles you pick up.

Kamal Sharma - 7 years, 2 months ago

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Dear Kamal the mistake you are making is on your second turn. When the bully picks up 1 marble , why are you picking 2? Pick 3 marbles!

Satyen Nabar - 7 years, 2 months ago
Aditya Pappula
Mar 13, 2014

The trick is that you can use your opponent's move by making your move in such a way that you can form a concrete equation. The equation I created is, no matter how many marbles your opponent takes, you take the 4's compliment of it... i.e., if your opponent takes 3, you will take 4-3 = 1 marble. As a result, the number of marbles remaining in the heap after n rounds is A-4n (A is the initial number of marbles) So, your aim now is to make the number of marbles available to your opponent in the form of 4m+1. That way, one marble will be left with your opponent. There fore, if you take 2 marbles in your first move, your opponent will face a heap of 9 marbles which is in the form of 4m+1. All you need to do from now on is to keep taking the 4s compliment of your opponent.

Correct. The other way to explain this is - To force the other guy to pick 11th marble, you have to make sure that he is forced to pick up 7th marble (11-4), so that you can adjust your move to pick 1 or 2 or 3 marbles out of marble# 8,9,10 th.

Similarly, to force the other guy to pick 7th marble, you have to make sure he is forced to pick up 3rd (7-4) marble so that so can adjust your move for marble# 4,5,6 th. That can only be achieved if you pick 2 marbles in the beginning.

That goes like 4's compliment to make sure 3rd and 7th marble falls in his plate and he will be left with no choice but only 11th marble.

Priyal Sarda - 7 years, 3 months ago

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This is my exact reasoning. So, if the bully takes "x" marbles each turn, then you must take "4 - x" marbles to leave 1 marble in the end for the bully to take.

Mark Mottian - 7 years, 2 months ago
Bhagirath Mehta
Mar 13, 2014

I noticed that it was possible, no matter what number of marbles the bully picked up, it was possible for me to pick up a number of marbles that would allow us to pick up four marbles in our two turns combined. That is, if the bully picks any number of marbles, it is possible for me to pick a number that will make the total number of marbles picked up in our two turns combined, equal to four.

Ex: If the bully picks up 3 marbles, I can pick up 1 marble.

If the bully picks up 2 marbles, I can pick up 2 marbles.

If the bully picks up 1 marbles, I can pick up 3 marbles.

This kind of sequence can occur twice since 4 divides into 11 twice, with a remainder of 3. Since I want the bully to end up with one marble on his last turn, and 3-1=2, I will have to pick up two marbles in my first turn.

The following shows the sequence of turns that will occur.

First turn (Me): 2 marbles

9 marbles left

First turn (Bully): X marbles

9-X marbles left

Second turn (Me): 4-X marbles

5 marbles left

Second turn (Bully): Y marbles

5-Y marbles left

Last turn (Me): 4-Y marbles

1 marble left

Last turn (Bully): 1 marble

0 marbles left


Note: X and Y are two random numbers. Their values can range from 1 to 3, as these are the possible number of marbles that the bully may pick up.

Anirudh Ka
Mar 20, 2014

you need to bring it to the form 1 + 4x form after your pick... i.e. 1,5,9,13,.... because, once you reach such a number, you can pick [4 - (whatever he picked)] to bring ot to the 1+4x form whih will finally lead to 1 marble being left for him to pick!! putting him into detention

I can avoid the detection only if Insist him to take the last marble. Now, I can take one, two or three marbles, so in the last move of mine, I have to make sure there should be 2,3 or 4 marbles remain for me. Initially there are eleven marble If I take 2 2 marbles then there remains 9 9 marbles.

Now if he takes 1 marble there remains 8 marbles.

if he takes 2 marbles there remains 7 marbles.

if he takes 3 marble there remains 6 marble.

In your next move, depending on his move you have to pick up one, two or three marbles so that there remains 5 marble, so after that whatever is his move you can have him in your trap.

Anatole Dahan
Apr 7, 2014

We can see that if our opponent plays first, we can always remove 4 balls in one turn : - If he removes 1 marble, I'll remove 3 - If he removes 2 marbles, I'll remove 2 - If he removes 3 marbles, I'll remove 1 Therefore, the solution is always to make him play when there are 4 n + 1 4n+1 marbles on the table, when n is an integer. Then I'll always use the strategie given above to go back to a " 4 n + 1 4n+1 " solution at his turn, until n = 0 n=0 , and he has to remove the last marble. So, when we start with n = 11 n=11 , I have to remove 2 marbles so that he plays when there are 4 × 2 + 1 4\times 2+1 marbles. This solution works with every number of marbles except you have to let your opponent start if there are exactly " 4 n + 1 4n+1 " marbles.

Jeremi Litarowicz
Mar 17, 2014

First, we notice that if you receive 1 marble, you loose. Thus, if you receive 2, 3 or 4 marbles, you can win as you can reduce it to one and thus your opponent looses. Thus you loose if you receive 5, as you can only reduce it to 2, 3 or 4, and thus your opponent wins. Thus, if you start by taking two, your opponent can reduce it to 8, 7 or 6, and in each case you can reduce it to 5, and thus your opponent looses. Thus you are guaranteed to win if you take 2 at the beginning. If you take away 3 at the beginning, then your opponent can reduce it to 5 and thus you loose. The only option that fits these two facts is that you take 2 as your first move.

Trầm Anh
Mar 14, 2014

Quite simple. First, you must make sure that in one of the bully's turns (turn x) there must be exactly 5 marbles left on the table. He can take 3 at most, and you too, 1 at least, and you too. You can not take the last one. So if he takes 3 then you take 1; he takes 2 then you takes 2; he takes 1 then you takes 3. Then he loses.

Second, because the two of you can always take a total of 4 mables (he takes 1 you take 3, 2 and you 2, 3 and you 1). So in turn x-1 the must be 9 marbles left. It is the bully turn and you go first. So take 2 from 11 marbles.

You can get the last marble too by getting 1 marbles for first move.

Wen Ooi - 7 years, 2 months ago

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