Solar Furnace

The surface of the Sun is about 6,000 K hot. Given a large, perfectly parabolic mirror that focuses a parallel beam of light to a point, can we heat a black object in the focus of the mirror to a temperature greater than 6,000 K?

Yes, if the mirror is large enough Yes, if we select the right combination of focal length and mirror size Not on the surface of Earth, only in outer space No, this is impossible

This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and, finally, (c) loading the non-javascript version of this page . We're sorry about the hassle.

1 solution

Laszlo Mihaly
May 19, 2018

The short answer: The second law of thermodynamics prohibits energy transfer from a colder object to a warmer one.

The long answer (added after the comment by Alex Li): Consider a parabolic mirror of focal length f f and radius R R . The intensity of radiation (energy per unit area per unit time) coming from the Sun is I I . (This is also called "solar constant" or "solar flux" and its value is 1.36kW/m 2 ^2 ). The angular diameter of the Sun is α = 0.5 3 = 9.25 × 1 0 3 r a d \alpha=0.53^{\circ}= 9.25 \times 10^{-3} rad . The question is: what is the intensity of radiation in the focal plane of the mirror?

Simple optics tells us that the size of the Sun's image is an r = f α / 2 r=f\alpha/2 radius circle. The area of that circle is A = π ( α f / 2 ) 2 A'=\pi(\alpha f/2)^2 . The power hitting the mirror is P = A I = π R 2 I P = AI=\pi R^2 I . This power is transferred to the image circle with the intensity of I = P / A = ( 2 R / f ) 2 ( 1 / α 2 ) I I'= P/A'= (2R/f)^2 (1/\alpha^2) I .

Here is the first interesting point: scaling up the size of the mirror does not make the intensity at the focal plane larger. As long as we keep a reasonable relationship between the radius of the mirror and the focal length (let us say, R = f R=f ) the intensity is independent of the size.

Let us use R = f R=f for the rest of the arguments. We can conclude that the intensity in the focal plane is I = 4 I / α 2 I'= 4I/\alpha^2 . Is this "strong" or "weak"? To answer this question, let us consider what would happen if all the sky is covered with a new source of radiation that has the same intensity as the Sun's. (We do not need a focusing mirror.) The larger is the solid angle covered by the new radiation source, the larger is the intensity: I = I solid angle covered by the new source solid angle covered by the Sun = I solid angle covered by the new source ( α / 2 ) 2 π I''=I \frac{\text{solid angle covered by the new source}}{\text{solid angle covered by the Sun}}=I\frac{\text{solid angle covered by the new source}}{(\alpha/2)^2\pi} . When the whole 4 π 4\pi solid angle is covered by the new source the intensity is I = I 4 π ( α / 2 ) 2 π = 16 I / α 2 I''= I\frac{4\pi}{(\alpha/2)^2\pi} = 16I/\alpha^2 .

Surprisingly, this is about the same intensity as the intensity we obtained by focusing. The ratio of the two intensities is I / I = 1 / 4 I'/I''=1/4 ; in other worlds in the focal plane we can get a quarter of the intensity of the radiation relative to the intensity when the whole sky is covered by the Sun. Of course, if all the sky is covered with the Sun, the temperature on Earth would be equal to the temperature of the Sun. We cannot do better than that by focusing the light.

This question has been motivated by this one.

I'm not completely convinced. The second law actually says "The total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time". However, entropy is not temperature. In particular, the object that is in question is presumably a lot smaller than the sun, so if it somehow took all the entropy away, it would be much, much hotter than the sun is now. If your claim was true, then it would be valid to say that nothing on earth that directly or indirectly gets energy from the sun (almost everything) can ever be more than 6000K. Yet, somehow, taking energy from large far away starts could give more heat, but either way, it's just light, right?

Alex Li - 3 years ago

Log in to reply

I have two answers, a practical and a theoretical. First, the solar furnaces that are currently in operation do not reach temperatures higher than 3,000-4,000K, although they concentrate a huge amount of energy to a small spot.

Second, imagine that the Sun and the target are at the two focal points of a HUGE, closed elliptical mirror. Due to the properties of the elliptical mirror, all of the Sun's energy will be focused to the target. That is a closed system, and the second law applies in the from I have stated, and the target cannot be at a higher temperature than the Sun (of course, the temperature will start to raise as soon as the system is closed). If you remove some of mirror, the energy that gets to the target will be less, so that the temperature will be less, too. In a realistic situation the Sun's radiation is always coming to the target from a solid angle that is less than 2 π 2\pi and the thermal radiation of the target always goes to a solid angle of 4 π 4\pi , therefore that the target cannot reach the temperature of the Sun.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years ago

Log in to reply

What if we consider the rays coming from the core of the sun which has way higher temperature than its surface? Can we theoretically say that we can achieve more than 6000 degrees by focusing those rays?

Rohit Gupta - 3 years ago

Log in to reply

@Rohit Gupta Those rays never reach us. They are converted to a lower temperature radiation before they reach the surface of the Sun.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years ago

You wrote "If your claim was true, then it would be valid to say that nothing on earth that directly or indirectly gets energy from the sun (almost everything) can ever be more than 6000K." Here on Earth we have a high temperature heat source (the part of the sky covered by the Sun, 6000K) and a low temperature heat sink (the part of the sky not covered by the Sun, 2.8K). Naturally, we can use that (and the life that evolved on Earth used it for millions of years) the decrease entropy locally. To achieve that you need clever mechanisms, that are not present in the simple optical system we are discussing here.

Here is another way of looking at this, that does not use the general entropy argument. Consider a parabolic mirror of focal length f f and radius R R . The intensity of radiation (energy per unit area per unit time) coming from the Sun is I I . (This is also called "solar constant" or "solar flux" and its value is 1.36kW/m 2 ^2 ). The angular diameter of the Sun is α = 0.5 3 = 9.25 × 1 0 3 r a d \alpha=0.53^{\circ}= 9.25 \times 10^{-3} rad . The question is: what is the intensity of radiation in the focal plane of the mirror?

Simple optics tells us that the size of the Sun's image is an r = f α / 2 r=f\alpha/2 circle. The area of that circle is A = ( α f / 2 ) 2 A'=(\alpha f/2)^2 . The power hitting the mirror is P = A I = R 2 π I P = AI=R^2\pi I . This power is transferred to the image circle with the intensity of I = P / A = ( 4 R / f ) 2 ( 1 / α 2 ) I I'= P/A'= (4R/f)^2 (1/\alpha^2) I .

Here is the first interesting point: scaling up the size of the mirror does not make the intensity at the focal plane larger. As long as we keep a reasonable relationship between the radius of the mirror and the focal length (let us say, R = f R=f ) the intensity is independent of the size.

We can conclude that the intensity in the focal plane is I 4 I / α 2 I'\approx 4I/\alpha^2 . Is this "strong" or "weak"? To answer this question, let us consider what would happen if all the sky is covered with the Sun and we do not use focusing mirror. The larger the solid angle is covered by the radiation source the larger is the intensity I = I solid angle covered by the new source solid angle covered by the Sun = I solid angle covered by the new source ( α / 2 ) 2 π I''=I \frac{\text{solid angle covered by the new source}}{\text{solid angle covered by the Sun}}=I\frac{\text{solid angle covered by the new source}}{(\alpha/2)^2\pi} . When the whole 4 π 4\pi solid angle is covered by the sun the intensity is I = I 4 π ( α / 2 ) 2 π = 8 I / α 2 I''= I\frac{4\pi}{(\alpha/2)^2\pi} = 8I/\alpha^2 .

Surprisingly, this is about the same intensity as the intensity we obtained by focusing. The ratio of the two intensities is I / I = 1 / 2 I'/I''=1/2 ; in other worlds in the focal plane we can get half of the intensity of the radiation relative to the intensity when the whole sky is covered by the Sun. Of course, if all the sky is covered with the Sun, the temperature on Earth would be equal to the temperature of the Sun. We cannot do better by focusing the light.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years ago

0 pending reports

×

Problem Loading...

Note Loading...

Set Loading...