Hitting the Infinite Frog

A frog is at a point on a number line which consists of only positive integers. Starting from that point, the frog is planning to jump 5 units to the right at a time. Hunter Jim, who knows neither the frog's current position nor its planned pace in a jump, wants to devise a strategy to shoot down the frog. He and the frog take turns, i.e. the frog jumps, he shoots a number, the frog jumps, he shoots a number, and so on.

With the optimal strategy, will he be able to hit the frog eventually?

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3 solutions

Eric Schneider
Jun 7, 2018

EDIT : The previous solution I had (shoot at multiples of 6) was correct, but only if Hunter Jim knew the frog's pace. Since Hunter Jim does not know this, a new solution applies. This is given below.

The formal declaration of this problem is as follows:
( g : N N ) ( a , b N ) ( n N ) ( g ( n ) = a n + b ) (\exists g:\mathbb{N}\rightarrow\mathbb{N})(\forall a,b\in\mathbb{N})(\exists n\in\mathbb{N})(g(n)=an+b) This roughly translates to "There is some strategy Hunter Jim can employ such that for a frog any pace or starting position, at some point, Hunter Jim will shoot that frog."

We will try to prove this now.

Let us construct a set S S in the following way:
S = { 2 a 3 b a N , b N } S= \{2^a3^b\mid a\in\mathbb{N}, b\in\mathbb{N}\} In non-mathy notation, S S is the set of all numbers that can be written as some power of two times some power of three. By the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, each n S n\in S has some unique a , b N a,b\in\mathbb{N} such that n = 2 a 3 b n = 2^a3^b . As well as this, we also know that each a a and b b has a unique member of S S that it corresponds to.

From here, we proceed to construct g g .
For any number n n , either n S n\in S or n ∉ S n\not\in S .
If n ∉ S n\not\in S , then g ( n ) = 1 g(n) = 1 . This is completely arbitrary, and it represents that Hunter Jim can really shoot anywhere here.
However, if n S n\in S , then we know there is some unique a a and b b such that n = 2 a 3 b n=2^a3^b . Knowing this, we can construct g ( n ) = a n + b g(n)=an+b .

Now, we can prove the proposition.
Let a a and b b be arbitrary positive integers representing the pace and starting position of the frog, respectively. Then, at shot 2 a 3 b 2^a3^b , we know that Hunter Jim will shoot at g ( 2 a 3 b ) = a ( 2 a 3 b ) + b g(2^a3^b) = a(2^a3^b)+b . Because the frog will have hopped 2 a 3 b 2^a3^b times at a pace of a a starting at b b , we know that the frog will be at position a ( 2 a 3 b ) + b a(2^a3^b)+b , meaning at shot 2 a 3 b 2^a3^b , Hunter Jim will shoot the frog. Because a a and b b are arbitrary, we prove the proposition. \square

The hunter does not know that the frog would jump in steps of 5. Hence, the correct equation would be f a , b ( t ) = b t + a f_{a,b}(t)=bt+a , with both a , b a,b being unknown. The ideal strategy now would be to shoot each multiple of ( b + 1 ) (b+1) in sequence. But, how can it be done without the knowledge of b b ?

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Thanks for pointing this out. After a lot of thinking, I fixed it.

Eric Schneider - 2 years, 12 months ago

The hunter does not know how far the frog jumps per turn.

Siva Budaraju - 3 years ago

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Thanks for letting me know, must've read over the question too fast. I fixed it if you want to check it out.

Eric Schneider - 2 years, 12 months ago
Michael Mendrin
Jun 6, 2018

Hunter Jim shoots at odd number multiples of 5 until he gets the frog, starting with 5.

With each round, Hunter Jim aims at a spot that advances by 2 ( n + 1 ) 1 ( 2 n + 1 ) = 2 2(n+1)-1 -(2n+1)=2 steps, while the frog advances by 1 1 step. Hence, wherever the frog is, Hunter Jim's aim gets closer to the frog by 1 1 step with each round.

(Examples added here)

Here's how it could go, frog vs hunter's aim

(Frog jumps from 25)
{30,35,40,45,50,55}
(Hunter aims at 5 first)
{5,15,25,35,45,55}

So, on the 6th try, the hunter will get the frog. Now let's try a different scenario.

(Frog jumps from 30)
{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}
(Hunter aims at 5 first)
{5,15,25,35,45,55,65}

On the 7th try, the hunter will get the frog.

By the way, how come the frog is showng jumping backwards?

What if the frog does not start out on a multiple of 5?

Siva Budaraju - 3 years ago

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Then Hunter Jim shoot at consecutive odd numbers until he hits the frog.

Michael Mendrin - 3 years ago

This is really close. If the frog is jumping at a pace of 1, shooting at odd multiples of 1 will work. However, here, the frog could start at 1, and odd multiples of 5 will never hit.

Eric Schneider - 3 years ago

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As the problem states, "..the frog is planning to jump 5 units to the right at a time..."

Michael Mendrin - 3 years ago

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Yes, but for the generalized problem, if the frog is jumping n n units at a time, an optimal strategy is to shoot at multiples of n + 1 n+1 . If knew that the frog started at a multiple of 5 5 , as your solution states, then the problem would reduce to hopping one to the right, and your solution would be analagous to shooting multiples of two.

Eric Schneider - 3 years ago

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@Eric Schneider Let me try to clear up what's being said. Let's imagine that the frog is jumping from one railtroad track tie to the next, 5 feet apart. Hunter Jim cannot see the frog, but he knows where the ties are. Shouldn't he only aim for where the ties are?

Michael Mendrin - 3 years ago

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@Michael Mendrin Yes, but as the problem states, we don’t know where the frog starts—that is, we know there ARE ties, but we don’t know exactly where they are. If we aim for one set of ties, it’s entirely possible that the frog is jumping on another set, and, as such, will survive.
The frog can start at 2, and while you shoot at 5, 15, 25, 35, etc, the frog hops on 2, 7, 12, 17, etc. It’s clear from this example that though you shoot at numbers ending with 5, the frog will hop on numbers ending with 2 and 7, so you will never hit it.
Sorry for the confusion.

Eric Schneider - 3 years ago

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@Eric Schneider The frog can only start at any 5n, where n is any positive integer including 0. The hunter knows where 0 is, but not where the frog starts. So, since the hunter shoots after the frog jumps, he aims for 5. After the frog jumps again, he aims for 15. And so on. Eventually he will get the frog. Here's how it could go, frog vs hunter's aim

(Frog jumps from 25)
{30,35,40,45,50,55}
(Hunter aims at 5 first)
{5,15,25,35,45,55}

So, on the 6th try, the hunter will get the frog. Now, let's try if the frog jumps from 30.

{35,40,45,50,55,60,65}
(Hunter aims at 5 first)
{5,15,25,35,45,55,65}

On the 7th try, the hunter will get the frog.

Michael Mendrin - 3 years ago

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@Michael Mendrin Oh, I see the confusion. The problem doesn’t say that the frog has to start on some 5 n 5n , only that the frog starts on some integer.

Eric Schneider - 3 years ago
R Mathe
Jun 15, 2018

I will make Agnishom’s game a little harder : the frog has a finite number of lives, but we don’t know how many. The hunter must shoot the frog enough times to win. Clearly, if the hunter has a winning strategy for this game, it has a winning strategy in the simpler game.

Let s , T : N N s,T:\mathbb{N}\longrightarrow\mathbb{N} be functions such that t ( s ( t ) , T ( t ) ) t\mapsto (s(t),T(t)) is a surjection and such that every point in the image N × N \mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N} occurs infinitely often. {}^{\color{#D61F06}{\dagger}} Interpretation: s , T s,T denote possible starting position and possible periods respectively. The shooting strategy is as follows:

s h ( t ) : = s ( t ) + t T ( t ) \mathrm{sh}(t) := s(t)+t\cdot T(t)

where s h ( t ) \mathrm{sh}(t) denotes the position, at which the hunter shoots at step t t in the game.

Claim: Let a , b , L N a,b,L\in\mathbb{N} . Assume the frog has L L lives, starts at a a and springs according to period b b . Then the hunter, whose strategy is independent of this information, will eventually hit the frog enough times to kill it. That is, the hunter always wins and s h ( ) \mathrm{sh}(\cdot) codes a winning strategy.

Proof: The frog’s trajectory is given by ( a + t b ) t N (a+tb)_{t\in\mathbb{N}} --- although it may die after finitely many steps in this sequence. Let A : = { t N ( s ( t ) , T ( t ) ) = ( a , b ) } A:=\{t\in\mathbb{N}\mid (s(t),T(t))=(a,b)\} . Per construction A A is infinite and s h ( t ) = s ( t ) + t T ( t ) = a + t b \mathrm{sh}(t)=s(t)+t\cdot T(t)=a+tb for all t A t\in A . Thus the hunter hits the frog infinitely often, in particular, more than L L times. Thus the hunter will kill eventually the frog. QED.


{}^{\color{#D61F06}{\dagger}} This is easy to construct: fix first any old infinite partition of the naturals into countably infinitely many infinite sets N = n N A n \mathbb{N}=\bigcup_{n\in\mathbb{N}}A_{n} . Now let π : N N \pi:\mathbb{N}\longrightarrow\mathbb{N} code what partition each element belongs to, ie π ( t ) = n t A n \pi(t)=n\Leftrightarrow t\in A_{n} . Let σ : N N × N \sigma:\mathbb{N}\longrightarrow\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N} be any surjection. Set ( s , T ) = σ π (s,T)=\sigma\circ \pi .

This is relatively well-known question. However, it is definitely not Level 1.

Csaba Magyar - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Is there a law against using mathematics?

R Mathe - 2 years, 10 months ago

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