How many darts do you need to throw?

You are given a dartboard of radius r r and an infinite number of darts. When you throw a dart at the dartboard, it always strikes the dartboard, but you don't necessarily control where it strikes.

You are about to throw n n darts. What is the minimum value of n n such that there must be a pair of darts that are closer than r r to each other?

Note : The point of each dart is one-dimensional. Darts can be thrown onto the edge of the dartboard.


The answer is 8.

This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and, finally, (c) loading the non-javascript version of this page . We're sorry about the hassle.

7 solutions

Caio Ometto
Oct 30, 2017

We're looking for the maximum number of darts, so they need to be as close as possible from each other (r). It is possible that 6 darts hit the edge and one hits the center keeping distance r from each other, because that's the configuration of a hexagon (6 equilateral triangles). So the 8th will be closer.

Nice! Same method here! I see there is a lot of discussion in comments to Hana's solution where people are wondering why answer can't be less than 8. I want to address following sentences to them. The problem says " What is the minimum value of such that there must be a pair of darts that are closer than r r from each other? ", where the verb must indicates that we need to be 100% sure that there is no place on the dartboard which is more than r r or exactly r r far away from the closest dart. Thus, in order to be sure that place doesn't exist, we need to look for the worst case - case with the max number of fired darts with minimum allowed distance between them - r r . That's where equilateral triangles with side r r come into play. As Ciao Ometto nicely showed, we can insert 6 those triangles formed by 7 points - darts. Only now we can be sure that every next dart (8th and more) will land closer than r r to some of the fired dart.

Uros Stojkovic - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

Much of the discussion came before the question was re-worded.

Alan Fruge - 3 years, 7 months ago

Can someone explain this for dummies i dont rly get it ty

Pudpud Hebikniet - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

Sure. So, you throw darts (imagine that you are not watching while you're throwing) and you want to know after what number of darts thrown you can be sure that there exists at least one pair of darts so that these two darts are closer than r r to each other. Here is important to notice this term 'being sure'. What this actually tells you, is that no matter what order of darts on the dartboard you imagine, there must always at least one pair so that these two darts are closer than r r to each other. In other words, no matter how unlikely some order is, you have to take it to account. Think of it as a game: your opponent faces you with some n n number of darts, and you reply with the ordering of n n darts for which there is not a single pair satisfying above-mentioned condition. First number for which you cannot reply is the number that we're looking for - and in this case that's number 8. Now, when you understand the concept, read again Caio Ometto solution and it should make perfect sense to you.

I hope you're enjoying Brilliant!

Uros Stojkovic - 3 years, 7 months ago

what if you land in the center of those triangles... then it isnt closer to a dart than it is to the center isnt it? i mean the one in the back is but the one you just threw isnt.

Eggz D - 3 years, 5 months ago

I understand that it is theoretically possible for 7 darts to hit the board at exactly distance r from each other, but given the way the question is posed, with the dart-thrower not having full control over the location and with the point of each dart being one-dimensional, I would argue that the probability of achieving this perfect arrangement by random chance is zero.

Similar situation: Think of picking a random real number between 0 and 1. What is the chance that you will pick exactly 1/2? Zero. (Or 1 divided by infinity if you don't mind a bit of woolly maths.) Therefore you 'must' pick a number not equal to 1/2.

I would argue that with only 7 darts there must be a pair closer than r. The odds of this not happening are zero.

Paul Cockburn - 2 years, 8 months ago

Log in to reply

This is now a philosophical question. In my opinion, there are two answers on the question: one is to say that the chance is indeed zero, but to accept that there are different zeros, which have different meanings and values. For example, consider picking a random number between 1 and 2 and asking for a probability of picking 1/2. There's no chance, it's zero, I hear you answering correctly. However, could this be the same zero we are asserting to the probability of picking 1/2 from the interval (0,1). While the first case is absolutely impossible, the second is infinitely improbable. There is a certain distinction between these two terms. The second way to answer is to say that the probability is equal to infinitesimal number (see hyperreal numbers on wikipedia).

Uros Stojkovic - 2 years, 8 months ago
Hana Wehbi
Oct 21, 2017

The best way to see that the eighth dart will land within a distance smaller than the radius from some other dart is this: imagine that each dart is the center of a circle of radius r 2 \frac{r}{2} . For the darts to be in the circle, the circles must be inside a circle of radius r + r 2 r+\frac{r}{2} concentric to the first, and if we want them to be separated by a distance bigger than r r , the little circles must be exterior to each other. As it isn't possible to fit more than seven circles of radius r 2 \frac{r}{2} inside one of radius r + r 2 r+\frac{r}{2} , the minimum number of darts to "pack" the dartboard is seven as shown above, with the 8th dart guaranteeing that the distance between a pair of darts is less than r r .

Note To be more convinced, you can check this Wikipedia article on parking circles in a circle .

I don't understand why 3 darts aren't enough, just don't put one in the center of the dartboard, but put them at angles 0°, 120° and 240° at distance r/2 from the center.

Jose Fernandez Goycoolea - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

I had the same thought, but I think the question is badly worded. I don't think the intent is that you can choose where the first darts go.

The confusion comes from the phrase "the next dart you throw". The way I initially interpreted that, it meant that the first darts can be in any configuration, with any spacing relative to each other, but it only counts as a success if the NEXT dart post-setup is within r of one of the setup darts. I figured we can't control the "next" dart, but we have to be able to control the setup darts, or else we could get unlucky and have them all clustered together off to the side, leaving a large uncovered region no matter how many darts we throw.

I think the question should be worded something like "What is the minimum number of darts you need to throw so that you can be sure that at least one pair of darts is within a distance r of each other?"

Robert Buckley - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

I agree with this. As taking it explicitly as worded leaves us with 2 possibilities - either we choose the placement or not. If we choose the placement we need either 1 or 3 depending on how they define 'on the dart board'. If they are randomly thrown then we cannot guarantee that the next dart is ever within a radius r of a previous, since randomly placed circles have a non zero probability of all being clustered at one point.

Changing the problem to say 'what is the maximum number of darts that can be thrown such that no two darts are within a distance r of each other' would be much more clear

Brandon Monsen - 3 years, 7 months ago

If you can't choose where the first darts go then the answer is infinite. All the darts could land near the top of the board and you couldn't guarantee that the next dart wouldn't land near the bottom. This situation, however, is ruled out by the use of the word 'minimum'. However, the answer given is wrong and should be 3, as pointed out by Jose.

David Winson - 3 years, 7 months ago

Because it has to be "strictly less than r". With these 3 darts there is 4 points that are not covered: center, 60°, 180°, 300°

Vitalii Nikolenko - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

No. All those points are less than r from one or more of the first three.

David Winson - 3 years, 7 months ago

Why can the answer not be 1 ?? The first dart hits at the centre (since the question does not mention that they're randomly thrown) and then every subsequent dart HAS TO be within r of the 1st.

Why is this wrong?

Soumil Sahu - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

You need the minimum ammount of darts to be SURE the next dart falls within distance r.

So yes, if the first one hits the center, all next darts would be within distance r, but that is not what they're asking for. If the first one lands somewhere near the edge, it's very possible to land an other dart outside of r. So 1 is not the minimum ammount to be SURE the next one falls within distance r of a previous dart.

Jasper Krielaars - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

Yes, I understand that, I also answered 7, but later, it came to me that the dart can land at the centre. It IS NOT mentioned in the question that they are randomly thrown, which is a sentence that should be included, but assuming that they are aimed was also incorrect I suppose.

Soumil Sahu - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

@Soumil Sahu It does not matter if they are thrown random or not. The minimum number of throws to reach a state stays the same. The darts can land in a spot because they were placed precicely, or because random chance placed them there. The minimum throws stays the minimum throws.

Jasper Krielaars - 3 years, 7 months ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't I just use the same logic with the 7 darts? If the first 7 lands somewhere concentrated near the edge, the 8th can land at a distance greater than r from the first 7.

Using this logic, assuming the tip of the darts and the minimum distance between two neighbouring darts are finitely small, you can technically have infinitely many darts concentrated on one part of the circle, and still have the next one fall on the opposite side of the circle with distance greater than r.

Jason Ng - 3 years, 7 months ago

This is incorrect logic. The reason the answer is not 1 is that a dart can land on the very edge of the dartboard. If you consider these darts, then 7 can fit without being strictly less than r. Then the 8th one has to be strictly less than r away from another.

Zain Majumder - 3 years, 7 months ago

The answer to the problem is either 1 or 3 depending on whether the dart is a real object with nonzero width or a point particle. Did they mean to ask what's the maximum number of darts thrown so that none is within r of another dart? This is a poorly-worded problem.

J Yoest - 3 years, 7 months ago

Why not 5? One dart in the center covers everything except border. In order to cover border with overlapping only 4 is enough.

Vitalii Nikolenko - 3 years, 7 months ago

For completeness, you still need to show that there is absolutely no way to fit 8 circles into that circle. Yes, it seems obvious from the image, but at least acknowledge that it is left to the reader.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

Ok, l will. Thank you.

Hana Wehbi - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

The question says that the next dart must lie at a distance less than r from a previous dart. This doesn't mean that the radius of the dart board is r. In this case the radius of the dart board is r+r/2

Amrit Sahani - 3 years, 7 months ago

Log in to reply

@Amrit Sahani I did say that. I said imagine the darts are inside a circle of radius r+r/2

Hana Wehbi - 3 years, 7 months ago
Sap Tm
Oct 30, 2017

in the worst case scenario the darts hit the border of the target - there should be 6 darts when the distance between the darts is equal to R. Only the dart in the middle of the target will be R way from each of other darts. If any of the 6 dart is not at the border of the target then the distance between this dart and the 7th one in the middle is less than R.. So the answer is 7 darts

If this if that...

The question states that they must be less than r away from each other. Rephrasing the question...

How many darts can you arrange on the board so that they are at least r distance away from every other dart?

The answer to that is 7. 6 around the border and 1 in the centre. The one in the centre being exactly r distance from the ones around the edge. So the 8th dart MUST be closer than r to one of them.

Oliver Foggin - 3 years, 7 months ago

The maximum distance between darts when 3 darts are thrown is Rsqt3. This occurs when they form an equilateral triangle at the edge of the circle. When a 4th dart is thrown its distance to any of the other 3 darts located anywhere within the dartboard is less than R. The answer is 4 darts.

edwin hoffman - 3 years, 7 months ago

This is a poorly worded problem.

Mike Steinlen - 3 years, 7 months ago
Arjen Vreugdenhil
Oct 30, 2017

The answer is less than ten. Think of the problem as placing circles radius r / 2 r/2 within a circle of radius 3 r / 2 3r/2 without overlap. Simply comparing the areas gives a 9:1 ratio; but it is clear that there will be holes in the covering, no matter how it is done.

The answer is at least eight. Placing six darts equidistant at the edge of the dartboard results in minimal distance of r r between neighbors, and there is precisely one point left for a second dart, at distance r r from all of them, in the center.

This gives 8 x 9 8 \leq x \leq 9 . Proving that x 9 x \not = 9 is more challenging.

Rod Woodford
Oct 31, 2017

The easiest method of constructing a hexagon is to draw a circle and use the compass to mark 6 equispaced points on the circumference. If an arc is drawn in the construction this immediately gives the 7 locations that the initial darts have to hit and the area that is excluded for subsequent darts. This gives the minimum number of darts required as 8.

Ed Rozmiarek
Oct 31, 2017

The distance between darts will be maximized when they form a regular polygon inscribed on the circle of the dartboard. The next dart can always be placed at a distance of r from the first set of darts, if each of the first darts are placed on the circle itself at the vertices of the polygon and the final dart is in the center. So the task becomes finding the polygon whose side length is less than r, when inscribed on the circle with radius r. Because of its symmetry, a hexagon will have radius r and side length r, and the n=7th dart will be in the center, a distance of r from each vertex. However, a regular heptagon will have side length of approximately 0.86r, making the task impossible with n=8 darts.

Harish Iyer
Nov 5, 2017

You can throw a dot at the center and another one at the perimeter of the board, that make it two. Now you can start throwing them all around the circle at a distance R from the center and also from previous thrown dart on the perimeter of the board. So the we simply have to find the number of R's in the perimeter of a circle I.e, 2πR / R = 2π . which is approximately to 6. 32 plus the dart at the center. That makes the total to 7 darts. Now the eighth dart thrown will be closer than R to atleast any two darts and hence the answer.

0 pending reports

×

Problem Loading...

Note Loading...

Set Loading...