Ice in Water

Suppose you have two identical plastic bowls: bowl A and bowl B. Bowl A is empty, while bowl B is filled with room temperature water. If you place an identical ice cube in each bowl, which bowl's ice cube will melt first?

Bowl A Bowl B Neither, the ice cubes will melt at the same rate

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24 solutions

Claudio Brot
Jan 24, 2018

Relevant wiki: Heat Transfer

The melting speed of ice is directly dependent on the thermal conductivity of its surroundings. We know that water has a higher thermal conductivity and therefore the ice in bowl B will melt faster.

Does it depend on what kind of bowl we're dealing with?

Steven Perkins - 3 years, 4 months ago

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Yes I thought that. If the bowl is at room temperature or higher and has better thermal conductivity than the water. Won't the ice in bowl A melt faster?

Pau Cantos - 3 years, 3 months ago

Yes, the rate of melting will depend (up to a small extent) on the material of the bowl. However the material of the bowl is the same in both cases, so that effect would be cancelled out.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 3 months ago

I think it's bowl B because room temperature water is a lot warmer than ice and since it is touching the ice it will melt it faster. I could have tried it out. I would rate this problem a 1 because it was very simple to follow. I figured out the answer straight away knowing that since the water is touching the ice it will melt it faster.

Lucia Tiberio - 3 years, 3 months ago

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Ice floating in ice water will not melt. No temperature differential.

Frederic Fischer - 3 years, 3 months ago

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But it’s not ice water... so what’s your point here?

JACKSON MEDDOWS - 3 years, 3 months ago

The air, with room temperature too, is also touching the ice cube. I think it has to do more thermal conductivity.

Natalia Abello - 3 years, 3 months ago

Does it depend on whether (and from which direction) a strong wind is blowing?

Would that change the phase transition area and therefore also influence the melting duration?

Could I think about it as some logarithmic function which crucially depends on heat conductivity on the one and heat capacity on the other?

Julia Seidel - 3 years, 3 months ago

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Nothing is mentioned about the strong wind in the problem, so it could be neglected. However, if there is a wind, it could change the rate of melting.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 3 months ago

that's over simplified. in the beginning thermal conductivity is the key. but if the cube is very big and the amount of water isn't? soon all the water cools to near zero. and unlike the air, the icy water stays in the bowl. the cube remains are soaked in icy water that keep it cool instead of room temprature air that would heat it much faster.

so it depends on cube size vs bowl size and also air temprature bowl shape and wind.

real life physics is always too complicated for toy problems.

datsounds plausible - 3 years, 3 months ago

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So in the end Datsounds, would you still say B like the website says is the answer? I kinda say same because of the melted ices temperature change in the bowls water.

Robert Mckinley - 3 years, 3 months ago

But they said that bowl A is empty, so if you take that literally doesn't that mean that the ice cube would be in a vacuum then when air flows into the vacuum it would return to water then ice? I haven't taken physics yet so I might be completely wrong, just wondering.

Kevin Wu - 3 years, 3 months ago

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What I am saying

Chante Benjamin - 3 years, 3 months ago

The simplest meaning of "empty bowl" would not be one with vacuum, but one which has air and is kept in a normal room.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 3 months ago

If we put an ice cube in vacumm space, what happens to it? Just wondering

Salwa Faour - 3 years, 3 months ago

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Take for example-if it's place in space near to the orbit of earth, it will sublime (as we know there is high heat in the earth's orbit especially without any atmosphere). In our solar system temperature of outer space decreases as you go away from the sun. Don't forget in the absence of medium. ICE will begin to radiate it's heat to the nearby bodies (again depends on the heat of nearby bodies ) this happens until there becomes an equilibrium, so overall a single answer does not stand valid, in this case!!!....

Chante Benjamin - 3 years, 3 months ago

If we leave the pressure out of the equation and look only at the temperature in space and we suppose that the ice cube is floating without contact, heat can only be transferred by radiation and this is by far much slower than conductivity or convection. So if the environment temperature is similar to the room temperature it will melt but much slower.

Cesar Arratia - 3 years, 3 months ago

it gonna melt anyway since there is heat transfer by radiation but the procces will occur much slower.

Hagai Sternberg - 3 years, 3 months ago

the heat transfer is by convection

Hagai Sternberg - 3 years, 3 months ago

I though the reason was because water has a higher specific heat than air.

Roger AB - 3 years, 3 months ago

Water has anomolous expansion and will tend to use the heat gained to break the bonds...so i guess bowl A will melt first

Hezekiah Mwangi - 3 years, 3 months ago

The "neither" solution is malarkey. It's obviously B. Elementary physics.

Enrico Turing - 3 years, 2 months ago
Laura Gao
Feb 25, 2018

Relevant wiki: Heat Transfer

Water is a better thermal conductor than air. It transfers heat to the ice faster so it causes the ice to melt faster. If the water and the air is the same temperature. It also depends on the material of the bowl.

I don’t get it

b wojin - 3 years, 3 months ago

But as the water warms the ice won’t the ice cube cool the water? So given a large enough ice cube, won’t the question become one of, “Which melts faster: ice in cold water or ice in warm air?”

Phillip Wagoner - 3 years, 3 months ago

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The ice would also cool the air surrounding it.

Laura Gao - 3 years, 1 month ago

Temperature of the the room and the water melts the ice faster.

Jean Chery - 3 years, 1 month ago
Ted Dunning
Feb 26, 2018

Same principle when defrosting food. Put some frozen chicken out on the countertop and it will take all day to thaw. Put it in some lukewarm water and it'll be ready in less than an hour. I used this trick to make dinner tonight.

A hair dryer helps too.

Charles Ziegenfus - 3 years, 3 months ago

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Ted is exactly right, with an application any cook understands.

Martin Farrell - 3 years, 3 months ago

So instead of plastic, if it was a metal bowl, would ice cube A melt first?

Cyriac Talus - 3 years, 3 months ago

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This is s good question. Who's got an answer?

Laquita Jackson - 3 years, 3 months ago

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I think the rate of melting will depend (up to a small extent) on the material of the bowl. However if the material of the bowl is the same in both cases, then that effect will cancel out.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 3 months ago

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@Pranshu Gaba This is an interesting question, thanks for the input!

Laquita Jackson - 3 years, 3 months ago

I think so

Laura Gao - 3 years, 3 months ago

So you understand physics but not microbiology.

Nik Halaszi - 3 years, 3 months ago

But Ted on a chicken there is more porous area for water to penetrate and cause that effect of defrosting. An Ice cube would be more solid, kinda not comparable, But I think I see what you mean.

Robert Mckinley - 3 years, 3 months ago

Both start melting immeditately, but ice cube in bowl B will be melt first. Question is wrong.

Soft Ware - 3 years, 2 months ago
Jam-Boa Nech
Mar 3, 2018

OP's idea seems to be comparing heat conduction. But, from a more pure physics point of view, the boundary condition is not enough. E.g. wind etc. need to be specified.

Since nothing is mentioned, you should assume the simplest setup possible, (which would have no wind).

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 3 months ago
Lillian Myhan
Mar 22, 2018

Since the water in the room is likely to be around 70 degrees, the water his going to be pretty warm. Ice cube B which is below freezing, like any other ice cube, will preform osmosis (the diffusion of water) and will melt a ton quicker than ice cube A.

Samuel Crane
Mar 15, 2018

I thought since water was denser than air no matter what the temperature was if they were equal it would melt in the water first.

Adda Saiteja
Mar 4, 2018

from thermdynmic laws, heat flows from higher temperature to lower. Here, water is more thermally conducting and transfers heat to ice resulting in melting it faster.

Bill Meister
Mar 3, 2018

Water is a more potent conductant than air. Therefore, the ice cube will absorb the heat from the room temperature water more quickly than it would from room air alone. For that reason, the cube sitting in water will melt first.

Ankan Bairagi
Mar 2, 2018

Water has the highest thermal conductivity of any liquid and has more than that of air. That means if ice cube is surrounded by water more heat transfer takes place and hence the melting rate will be higher. Thus ice in bowl B will melt faster.

The rate of melting of ice depends largely on the thermal conductivity of the surrounding matter. In bowl A, the ice cube is surrounded by air which his a poor conductor of heat. In bowl B though, the ice cube is surrounded by water. Though at room temperature, it is a way better conductor of heat when compared to air. So heat transfer is quicker and therefore the ice in bowl B melts comparatively faster.

Just a question, maybe a stupid one, but if the bowl is a metal? Comparing the ice surround by water in a metal cup the ice will melt by the conductivity of water (direct contact) but if there is no water it might melt by the rate of the metal bowl conductivity, so which is faster? (Water vs metal(i.e iron)?)

Thep-ananh Virathavone - 3 years, 3 months ago
Sam Markson
Mar 1, 2018

The ice in bowl A only has one source of energy melting it which it the air, however bowl B is filled with water therefore more particles are transferring more kinetic energy to the ice than bowl A.

Francesco Cescon
Mar 1, 2018

Water is more thermal conductive than air, therefore the ice loses temperature difference and eventually melts

Jonathan Foreman
Mar 1, 2018

I be but a simple Pirate, an' I figure that when a scurvy rascal walks the plank in cold water they go to Davy Jones locker faster in cold water! I be a reckoning the opposite be true in warm water. That is why yon cube of ice be a gonna in ye second bowl.

Paul Dunne
Feb 28, 2018

Simple answer, room temperature water will bring ice to its temperature faster than ice on its own.

Sean Oliver
Feb 27, 2018

See, if the room temperature is warm enough to melt ice, and Bowl B has the room temperatured water in it, the ice cube would melt faster.

Erica Phillips
Feb 27, 2018

The reason is that heat is always transferred from hot body to cold body,hence in bowl B there is water at room temperature which is warmer than the ice cube therefore,heat is transferred from the water at room temperature to the ice, melting it at a faster rate.

V'neet Upadhayay
Feb 27, 2018

Specific Heat Capacity of water is more than that of air so ice will take up more heat from water at room temperature and melt fatser (due to high specific Latent Heat of Fusion of ICE).

It depend of your bowl thermal conductivity! of course if the bowl is in plastic or ceramic the answere is B for metal or cast iron bowl the answere is less direct!

Hardik Parmar
Feb 27, 2018

Since more number of molecules come in contact for thermal conductivity in water the ice cube dipped in water will melt faster

Russ Reed
Feb 27, 2018

Air Is a very good thermal Insulator, and liquid water regardless of temperature is a fairly efficient thermal conduction medium, hence water often being used to sink off or conduct heat. The bowl of air would preserve the state of the ice cube much better than the bowl of water would to say the least.

John Yesberg
Feb 27, 2018

Model the system as a heat sink surrounded by a stationary medium (no convection or wind, no edge effects). The rate of heat transfer from the air (or water) to the ice cube is proportional to three factors: the density, the heat capacity, and the thermal conductivity.

Consider a small volume of air (or water) a short distance from the ice cube. How much heat can be transferred from the air (or water) to the ice cube? As the air (water) cools, it will transfer less heat.

  • The heat capacity is a measure of how much heat can be transferred per degree of cooling. Water has 4.2 times the heat capacity of air (4200J/kgK vs 993 J/kgK).

  • The mass of air/water in the small volume will be proportional to the density. Air is about 780 times less dense than water, so there will be 780 times less material in that volume to impart heat to the ice cube.

  • The rate that heat will travel from the volume of air/water into the ice cube will depend on the thermal conductivity of the material between them: either ice or water. Water is 20 times more thermally conductive than air, so more heat will flow through water for a given temperature gradient.

So the part of the ice cube in contact with water will melt 4.2 x 780 x 20 = 65000 times faster than an ice cube only touching air.

Rajanikant Swami
Feb 26, 2018

Water has better thermal conductivity than air. So bowl B ice will melt first.

Mason Russell
Feb 26, 2018

This happens because water has high specific heat capacity than aur.

What's aur?

Stefan van der Waal - 3 years, 3 months ago

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I guess it's a typo

Natalia Abello - 3 years, 3 months ago

what is heat capacity?

Natalia Abello - 3 years, 3 months ago

I think it would be helpful if you explained what heat capacity is and how that plays a role in this scenario.

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 3 months ago

Water is a better thermal conductor than air. It transfers heat to the ice faster so it causes the ice to melt faster. If the water and the air is the same temperature. It also depends on the material of the bow

Yes, you are correct. But if the material of the bowl was the same in both cases, can we make this conclusion?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 3 months ago

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