Inspired by Mads Carlsen

Calculus Level 1

Water drips into a cup (shaped like a truncated cone, as below) at a steady rate. The height of the water in the cup

  • is positive, because it is above the bottom of the cup,
  • has positive speed, because it is rising, and
  • has negative acceleration, because the rate at which the water rises is decreasing.

How is the magnitude of acceleration of the water's height changing ?

The magnitude of acceleration is decreasing The magnitude of acceleration is a non-zero constant The magnitude of acceleration is increasing

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10 solutions

Arjen Vreugdenhil
Aug 20, 2018

The rate at which the height increases is inversely proportional to the surface area of the water: d h d t 1 A . \frac{dh}{dt} \propto \frac 1A. (This follows from the constant rate of increase in volume: const = d V / d t = A d h / d t \text{const} = dV/dt = A\:dh/dt implies d h / d t = const / A dh/dt = \text{const}/A .)

From the drawing we surmise that the container is a truncated cone, with its vertex somewhere below the cup. There is nothing to stop us from measuring the height from this vertex; then the surface area is a circle with radius r h r \propto h , so that A h 2 A \propto h^2 and d h d t 1 h 2 . \frac{dh}{dt} \propto \frac 1{h^2}. The solution is of the form h ( t ) t 3 , h(t) \propto \sqrt[3]t, for properly scaled time coordinate t t . Taking the derivative two and three times, we find the acceleration and the jerk d 2 h d t 2 t 1 / 3 t 5 / 3 ; d 3 h d t 3 t 1 / 3 t 8 / 3 . \frac{d^2h}{dt^2} t^{1/3} \propto -t^{-5/3};\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \frac{d^3h}{dt^3} t^{1/3} \propto t^{-8/3}. Since the acceleration is negative but the jerk is positive, we conclude that the magnitude of acceleration decreases \boxed{\text{decreases}} .

At the end, it is just a vocabulary question, i.e. difference between value and absolute value (= magnitude)!

Pierre Carrette - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Yes! I rigorously satisfied myself that the jerk was positive, missed the 'magnitude' part, and got it wrong :(

Ben Davis - 2 years, 9 months ago

Wonderful. I really feel that I am learning from you. What is the 'jerk' that you mention ?

Jesse Otis - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Jerk j \mathbf j is the rate of change of acceleration: v = d x d t a = d v d t = d 2 x d t 2 j = d a d t = d 3 x d t 3 \begin{aligned} \mathbf v & = \frac{d\mathbf x}{dt} \\ \mathbf a & = \frac{d\mathbf v}{dt} = \frac{d^2\mathbf x}{dt^2} \\ \mathbf j & = \frac{d\mathbf a}{dt} = \frac{d^3\mathbf x}{dt^3} \end{aligned}

Arjen Vreugdenhil - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Wow; the third derivative of the position function; I remember learning about non-constant acceleration in the physics course 'Mechanics' - but am not sure if the prof or book mentioned Jerk. Thanks.

Jesse Otis - 2 years, 9 months ago

This is not an advanced level question.

Dennis Rodman - 2 years, 8 months ago

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A solution can be given (and has been given) that uses less mathematical notation, more intuitive notions, and slightly more handwaving. If you prefer that, read Darko's solution. I saw the need for making things a little more precise, hence my posted solution.

Arjen Vreugdenhil - 2 years, 8 months ago
Darko Simonovic
Aug 20, 2018

Observe that speed of the waterline is always positive ( v > 0 v>0 ). If the negative acceleration was constant or increasing in magnitude, at one point in time, and no later than T v 0 / a 0 T \leq v_0/|a_0| , the speed of the waterline would become negative. This, would mean that, while pouring water in the cup, the cup somehow is emptying itself.

EDIT: I agree with the moderator. It is well possible that acceleration could initially increase in magnitude, and afterwards decrease (or even oscillate), depending on the shape of container.

Moderator note:

We have eliminated 2 options. For completeness, it remains to show that the third option is correct.

I want to add that by "decreasing" it means, lets say, has -5 of acceleration, then it has -4, then -3, -2,-1, and finally its almost 0, because the velocity becomes practically 0 (constant). I thought this was "increasing", since i included the sign into account, but my mistake not seeing it said MAGNITUDE. Well, a little ambiguous.

Eliud Alejandro Maldonado Sanchez - 2 years, 9 months ago
Naren Bhandari
Aug 13, 2018

Practical Observation

Overall height of water level is increasing however, due to increase in the cross sectional area of cup the height gained by water level at any instant(phase) is less than that of previous phase which results decrease in displacement of height of water level with respect to time where curve will be concave downward resulting decrease in the non-uniform speed and slowing down of water level which further tells that acceleration is negative and magnitude is decreasing.

Note: Negative acceleration doesn't infer that acceleration is decreasing rather it's tells speed is decreasing.


To prove our claim let us take a cone (since it shows similar phenomenon by extending lines backward in the given cup) where R R and H H be the radius and height whereas, r r and h h be the radius and height of water level at any time t t . To calculate the volume of cone we have, V = 1 3 π r 2 h V = \dfrac{1}{3}\pi r^2h . If we differentiate with respect to time t t , the right hand side will involve the quantity d r d t \dfrac{dr}{dt} . Since we have no direct information about d r d t \dfrac{dr}{dt} , it is wise idea to eliminate r r from formula we have . Using the similarity of triangle, we see r h = R H r = R h H \dfrac{r}{h} = \dfrac{R}{H}\implies r=\dfrac{Rh}{H} . Substituting in the formula we have V = ( π R 2 3 H 2 ) h 3 V= \left(\dfrac{\pi R^2}{3H^2}\right)h^3 Differentiating with respect to time t t we obtain d V d t = R 2 π 3 H 2 ( 3 h 2 d h d t ) d h d t = X h 2 \dfrac{dV}{dt} = \dfrac{R^2 \pi}{3H^2}\left(3h^2\dfrac{dh}{dt}\right)\Rightarrow \dfrac{dh}{dt} = \dfrac{X}{h^2} Now, with further differentiation with respect to time a ( t ) = d 2 h d t 2 = X h 3 a(t) = \dfrac{d^2h}{dt^2} = - \dfrac{X'}{h^3}\implies that acceleration a a is negative(implying speed is decreasing which is true) and magnitude of acceleration is falling with increase in height of water level meaning a a is not constant. Hence, this conclude the magnitude of acceleration is decreasing since a ( t ) d t > 0 \frac{\,a(t)}{dt}>0 .

± \pm Acceleration Versus Time graph :

It's actually really simple if you frame it correctly. You don't have to do any calculations.

Hint: Think about what it means if magnitude is constant or increasing. Can the acceleration always stay negative?

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 10 months ago

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Constant magnitude of acceleration is possible whenever the change of speed is uniform which isnot possible regarding the case we have as the cross-sectional area of glass is increasing so speed will be vary resulting decrease in magnitude.

Naren Bhandari - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Indeed. The solution that I'm getting at is much easier. (You have parts of it in your comment, but it isn't as clearly stated as I would like, so I'm going to elaborate on it.)

Think about it at the conceptual level. If acceleration was constant or increasing in magnitude, then the speed (which is decreasing) will eventually go below 0, which means that the height of the water level is going down, which is ridiculous. Hence, because we know that the speed is bounded below by 0, this means that the acceleration cannot be (forever) constant/increasing for any container (of infinite height).

Of course, to show that the acceleration is forever decreasing could take a bit of work to go through, but that should also be obvious as you think about this particular scenario.

Calvin Lin Staff - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@Calvin Lin Ya of course if we look at conceptual level then the magnitude of acceleration is definitely decreasing.So you are right here.

D K - 2 years, 9 months ago

@Calvin Lin I arrived at the answer the conceptual way, but then I started wondering whether it might matter how close the tap is to the cup, and whether the shorter distance travelled by the drops needs to be considered?

Mateusz Lawrynowicz - 2 years, 9 months ago

Actually very nice even if the problem was solvable without calculations.

Cyril Gauthier - 2 years, 9 months ago

as the height increases the water will reach the cup faster thus this will change the acceleration a bit but nobody is counting this in their solution .... will this not change the solution

Vivek Singh - 2 years, 9 months ago
Soumil Baksi
Aug 21, 2018

Magnitude of Accelaration of the water's height is starting to tend towards 0 as we consider huge cases, when the drip of water wouldn't change the water level at all.

Uros Stojkovic
Aug 21, 2018

Okay, let's do some calculus, just out of curiosity.

The volume of the cup is given by: V = h o h f A ( h ) d h , V = \int_{h_{o}}^{h_{f}}A(h)\, dh, where A ( h ) = π ( a h ) 2 A(h) = \pi(ah)^{2} is the cross-section area as a function of h h . (There is a linear dependence between height and radius of the cross-section)

By chain rule, we have: V t = V h h t = Q h t = Q π a 2 h 2 , \begin{aligned} \frac{\partial V}{\partial t} &= \frac{\partial V}{\partial h}\frac{\partial h}{\partial t} = Q \\ \implies \frac{\partial h}{\partial t}&= \dfrac{Q}{\pi a^{2}h^{2}},\end{aligned} where Q Q is a constant.

Applying chain rule further, we get: 2 h t 2 = 2 h t h h t = 2 Q π a 2 h 3 Q π a 2 h 2 = 2 Q 2 π 2 a 4 h 5 3 h t 3 = 3 h t 2 h h t = 10 Q 2 π 2 a 4 h 6 Q π a 2 h 2 = 10 Q 3 π 3 a 6 h 8 > 0 n h t n = n h t n 1 h h t = ( 1 ) n 1 ( k = 2 n 3 k 1 ) Q n π n a 2 n h 3 n 1 \begin{aligned} \frac{\partial^2 h}{\partial t^2} &= \frac{\partial^{2} h}{\partial t\, \partial h}\frac{\partial h}{\partial t} = -\dfrac{2Q}{\pi a^{2}h^{3}}\dfrac{Q}{\pi a^{2}h^{2}} = -\dfrac{2Q^{2}}{\pi^{2} a^{4}h^{5}} \\ \frac{\partial^3 h}{\partial t^3} &= \frac{\partial^{3} h}{\partial t^{2}\, \partial h}\frac{\partial h}{\partial t} = \dfrac{10Q^{2}}{\pi^{2} a^{4}h^{6}}\dfrac{Q}{\pi a^{2}h^{2}} = \boxed{\dfrac{10Q^{3}}{\pi^{3} a^{6}h^{8}}>0} \\ &~~\vdots \\ \frac{\partial^n h}{\partial t^n} &= \frac{\partial^{n} h}{\partial t^{n-1}\, \partial h}\frac{\partial h}{\partial t} = (-1)^{n-1}\dfrac{\left( \prod_{k=2}^{n}3k-1\right )Q^{n}}{\pi^{n}a^{2n}h^{3n-1}}\end{aligned}

We see that third-order derivative of height with respect to time, which captures changing of height acceleration, is positive, implying that acceleration is increasing. But since the acceleration is negative, the magnitude of acceleration is decreasing .

Jeremy Galvagni
Aug 20, 2018

I'd try a numerical approach to show how this can be done without calculus (and because I felt like it). Simplify things by letting the cup be a cone with r = h r=h , then V = 1 3 π r 3 V=\frac{1}{3}\pi r^{3} . Solve for r r and pull out the constant terms which can be ignored and r = C V 3 r=C \sqrt[3]{V} . Since the volume is increasing at a constant rate, let's call it time.

time ( V V ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
height = V 3 =\sqrt[3]{V} 1 1.260 1.442 1.587 1.710 1.817 1.913 2
speed 0.260 0.182 0.145 0.123 0.107 0.096 0.087
acceleration -0.0776 -0.0372 -0.0226 -0.0154 -0.0113 -0.0087
change of acc. 0.0404 0.0146 0.0071 0.0041 0.0026

I rounded to two decimals, but it's clear enough that number in the acceleration row are getting closer to zero: The magnitude of acceleration is decreasing.

Actually, the V 3 \sqrt[3]{V} is the height, so the next line is the speed, and the acceleration is the last row, with negative values. NOW if you'd round to 3 digits, it would be clear that the magnitude is strictly decreasing (0.078, 0.037, 0.023, 0.015, 0.011, 0.009, 0.007, etc). Also, can you please round the value in column 6 properly? it's 0.09581, so it should be 0.10 not 0.09. :-B

C . - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Thanks for your suggestions/corrections. I solved it on paper but typed this up the next day and didn't remember exactly what I had done. This was also the source of the roundoff errors, so I redid the numbers more precisely.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Kudos for the improvements. :-)

The only thing i would consider inessential is the [rate of] change of acc... The problem asked what is acc doing, not how fast. ^^

C . - 2 years, 9 months ago

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@C . I agree it isn't needed but I was on a roll. The calculus solutions need to mention this is positive because the acc. is negative.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 9 months ago
Josh Silverman Staff
Aug 17, 2018

As the water level rises, the trickle rate V ˙ = k \dot{V} = k becomes insignificant next to the volume of the water. If we take the limit as the drip rate becomes very small relative to volume ( k / V 0 k/V \rightarrow 0 ) we can see that the rate of change of the water level's velocity should approach zero.

Why? Since we're adding water, the water level's velocity certainly won't ever become negative, but the water level's acceleration is strictly negative. For both to be true, it must be that the water level's downward acceleration is approaching zero as well.

Edit : as it is totally unnecessary to do a calculation here, I've only left the intuitive part of my solution.

"As the water level rises, the trickle rate becomes insignificant next to the volume of the water."

You mean, it becomes insignificant next to the rate of change of volume with respect to height. That's what directly relates to the velocity.

Daniel Walvin - 2 years, 9 months ago
Björn Carlsson
Aug 24, 2018

V ~ h 3 h^{3} - k ~ t (where k is the volume of the imagined cone that would have been below the bottom)

V'(t) ~ 3 h 2 h^{2} h'(t) and V'(t) = constant

h'(t) ~ h 2 h^{-2} > 0

h''(t) ~ -2 h 3 h^{-3} h'(t) ~ - h 5 h^{-5} < 0

Since the acceleeration is always negative, the magnitude of acceleration is -h''(t).

h'''(t) ~ 5 h 6 h^{-6} h'(t) ~ h 8 h^{-8} ~ ( t + k ) 8 / 3 (t+k)^{-8/3} > 0

Since h''(t) is always increasing, -h''(t) is always decreasing.

It helps to think in terms of extremes. I did it that way without calculations

Let h h be the height. h h' is inversely proportional to r 2 r^2 , the area of the surface, so h r 2 h'\sim r^{-2} , so h 2 r 3 r h''\sim-2r^{-3}r' . r > 0 r'>0 is constant because the cup's a cone, so h 2 r 3 h''\sim-2r^{-3} . h h'' changes at rate 6 r 4 r 6r^{-4}r' , which is positive, so h h'' is decreasing in magnitude.

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