Inspired by parv mor

Calculus Level 4

Does there exist a twice differentiable function f ( x ) f(x) such that

f ( x ) f ( x ) < 0 f(x)f''(x)<0

for all real x x ?


Inspiration .

Yes No Cannot be determined

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2 solutions

Noam Pirani
May 18, 2016

I think that there is some gaps in my proof, but: Divide the real line into segements of the form ( a , b ) (a,b) when in the segments, f ( x ) f''(x) does not change sign, and such that in a segment ( b , b + ϵ (b,b+\epsilon ) f ( x ) f''(x) change sign, and the same about a neighborhood of ( a ϵ , a ) (a-\epsilon,a) . Now, without loss of generality, assume that in the segment σ = ( a , b ) \sigma=(a,b) we have that for each x σ , f ( x ) > 0 x\in\sigma, f''(x)>0 . To satisfy the inequality, we must have f ( x ) < 0 f(x)<0 if x σ x\in\sigma . But in σ , f ( x ) \sigma, f(x) is convex and thus f ( a ) < 0 , f ( b ) < 0 f(a)<0, f(b)<0 . But in the segment ( b , ) (b,\infty) we a segment of the form of σ \sigma , call it σ 1 \sigma_1 , in which f ( x ) < 0 f''(x)<0 and with its leftmost point as b ( it is of the form ( b , a 1 ) (b,a_1) with a 1 a_1 not nesecerally finite). Thus in a right neighborhood B B of b which is contained in σ 1 \sigma_1 we must have that f ( x ) > 0 , x B f(x)>0, x\in B , which contradicts the fact that f ( x ) f(x) is contniuous.

Thank you for your solution, Noam! You are certainly on the right track when you work with convexity (and/or concavity). I presume that you are giving an indirect proof, assuming that such a function f ( x ) f(x) does exist. Then you can use the fact that f ( x ) f(x) has no zeroes and neither does f ( x ) f''(x) , which makes things a lot easier: Both f ( x ) f(x) and f ( x ) f''(x) will have the same sign throughout, and those signs will be opposites. Replacing f ( x ) f(x) by f ( x ) -f(x) if necessary, you can even assume that f ( x ) > 0 f(x)>0 and f ( x ) < 0 f''(x)<0 for all x x . Now f ( x ) f(x) will be (strictly) concave, and a strictly concave function cannot be positive throughout.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years ago

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Is f''(x) necessarily continuous? If not, we can not assume that it has the same sign, no?

Noam Pirani - 5 years ago

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The derivative of a differentiable function always satisfies the intermediate value theorem, even if it fails to be continuous.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years ago

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@Otto Bretscher Oh ok I understand, thank you:)

Noam Pirani - 5 years ago

Take f ( x ) = cos x f(x) = \cos x we get f ( x ) f ( x ) = ( cos x ) 2 < 0 f^{\prime \prime}(x) f(x) = -(\cos x)^2 < 0

neelesh vij - 5 years ago

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It's not strictly lower, since both f ( x ) f(x) and f ( x ) f``(x) has zeros.

Noam Pirani - 5 years ago

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Oh! got it thanks

neelesh vij - 5 years ago

What do you mean by that it's not strictly lower?

Sanchit Ahuja - 5 years ago

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@Sanchit Ahuja As cos x \cos x has a root on x = π 2 x= \dfrac{\pi}{2} so at x = π 2 x= \dfrac{\pi}{2} \quad f ( x ) × f ( x ) = 0 f(x)\times f^{\prime \prime}(x) =0

Which clearly violates above condition.

neelesh vij - 5 years ago

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@Neelesh Vij At x= π / 3 \pi/3 , f(x)*f''(x) =-1/4

Akash Shukla - 4 years, 8 months ago
Akash Shukla
May 18, 2016

Let, f ( x ) f(x) = a x 2 + b x + c ax^2+bx+c . Then we assume that for every x x , f ( x ) > 0 f(x) > 0 and f ( x ) < 0 f''(x) < 0 .

for f ( x ) > 0 f(x) > 0 ,

x > ( b 2 4 a c ) b 2 a x>\frac{√(b^2-4ac)-b}{2a} and x < b ( b 2 4 a c ) 2 a x<\frac{b-√(b^2-4ac)}{2a}

As, f ( x ) < 0 f''(x) < 0 , so a < 0 a<0 . So for one fixed value of a a , f ( x ) f''(x) is either > 0 >0 or < 0 <0 , but for f ( x ) f(x) ,there is always a range of x x in which it is increasing or decreaing. So f ( x ) f ( x ) < 0 f(x)*f''(x) < 0 is not possible for every x x

This is a partial solution, as it applies to quadratic polynomials only.

Otto Bretscher - 5 years ago

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Sir, one question is there. twice differentiable function is the one which becomes constant after differentiating it twice or just it can be differentiated twice.

Akash Shukla - 5 years ago

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It can be differentiated twice

Otto Bretscher - 5 years ago

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@Otto Bretscher Sir, I think there doesn't exist any function which satisfy the given condition.

Akash Shukla - 5 years ago

1 pending report

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