Inspired by Pranjal Jain

Calculus Level 2

What is the value of

1 1 1 x d x ? \int_{-1} ^ 1 \frac{1}{x} \, dx ?

1 Does not exist 0 e

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8 solutions

Discussions for this problem are now closed

Calvin Lin Staff
Dec 26, 2014

The integral does not converge.

When integrating over a vertical asymptote, we have to be very careful that the integral converges absolutely. We cannot simply say "the graphs are symmetric hence the parts must cancel out".

In this case, because 1 1 1 x d x \int_{-1} ^ 1 \left| \frac{ 1}{x} \right| \, dx is not finite, hence the integral in the question is undefined.


Note: 1 1 s g n ( x ) x 1 / 2 d x = 0 \int_{-1} ^ 1 \frac{ sgn(x) }{ x^{1/2} } \, dx = 0 .

What if we apply kings property of integration..? I got the answer "0"..

Mohanish Gaikwad - 6 years, 5 months ago

Can you explain what the "kings property of integration" is? This is my first time hearing about it, and a google search did not turn up anything useful.

Please clearly state all conditions under which the property holds, paying special attention to what happens about vertical asymptotes.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

King Rule is nothing but a property of definite integrals that (integral of f(x) from a to b is same as integral of f(a+b-x) from a to b)

Prakash Chandra Rai - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Prakash Chandra Rai Do you mean that "King Rule" is the property of definite integrals that a b f ( x ) d x = a b f ( a + b x ) d x ? \displaystyle \int_a^b f(x)~dx=\int_a^b f(a+b-x)~dx~~\large{?}

Prasun Biswas - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Prakash Chandra Rai If that's the case, then we are saying that "does not exist = does not exist", and so there is no contradiction.

Generally for such theorems, they assume first that the integral exists (and is finite) as a condition. E.g. even saying that f + g = f + g \int f + g = \int f + \int g assumes that both of these integrals are finite, because we do not have arithmetic on infinity.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Calvin Lin If we consider the original question and after applying the king property and adding both.. It will be integral of 1/x + integral of-1/x...The sum is zero.

Mohanish Gaikwad - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Mohanish Gaikwad No, what you have is "does not exist + does not exist", which is equal to "does not exist".

The king property does not guarantee existence / finiteness of the integral. It assumes existence / finiteness.

Note: We do not have (complete) arithmetic operation on the reals + infinity. We cannot conclude that 0 = 0 = \infty - \infty .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

It is exactly as said by prakash rai.

Mohanish Gaikwad - 6 years, 5 months ago

Doesn't 1 x \frac{1}{x} simply integrate to Ln x {x} , which becomes undefined because a n a^{n} > 0 (for real a and n). In other words, we can't have Ln(-1)

Curtis Clement - 6 years, 5 months ago

Not quite. Usually, the way to deal with a negative denominator, is to take absolute values.

For example, we can integrate 1 k 1 x d x = [ ln x ] 1 k \int_{-1} ^ k \frac{ 1}{x} \, dx = [ - \ln |x| ]_{-1} ^k for any 1 < k < 0 -1 < k < 0 .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

So it means that the integral a b f ( x ) d x \int _a^bf(x)dx does not exist if there exist a point c c in the interval [ a , b ] [a,b] such that f ( c ) f(c) is not defined......please correct me if i am wrong

Aman Sharma - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Aman Sharma There are exceptions. Say you have a function with a point of discontinuity, say f ( x ) = x 2 1 x 1 f(x) = \frac{x^{2} - 1}{x - 1} . This function is undefined at x = 1 x = 1 , but since

lim x 1 f ( x ) = 2 \lim_{x \rightarrow 1} f(x) = 2 ,

we find that, for example,

0 2 f ( x ) = 4 \displaystyle\int_{0}^{2} f(x) = 4 .

I think that your statement may be accurate when asymptotes are involved, although I'd have to do a bit of research to be certain of this.

Brian Charlesworth - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Brian Charlesworth I am quite curious to know ,how you will modify this statement sir

Aman Sharma - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Aman Sharma See the explanation given below by me.

Prakash Chandra Rai - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Aman Sharma No, that statement is not true. The value of an integral can be defined even though there are points which are undefined. For example, we can show that 0 1 1 x d x = 2 \int_{0}^1 \frac{1}{\sqrt{x}}\, dx = 2 , even though 1 0 \frac{1}{ \sqrt{0} } isn't defined.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

Isn't integral ( 1/x) = ln(|x|) ?

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 5 months ago

Actually, Integrate d x/ x ought to be Ln (x) + C XOR Ln (-x) + C some more!

As d (Ln x)/ d x = 1/ x and d [Ln (-x)]/ d x = 1/ x while d x/ x = d (-x)/ (-x).

Not crossing x = 0, it is easy to say as Ln | x | because Ln (-1) = j Pi hasn't been known. Since only difference of same side is to be evaluated at once, the sign is added to avoid doubt only. What we obtain as a result of integration is not everything but something that shall tell the value of integral from one domain to another domain.

Lu Chee Ket - 6 years, 5 months ago

isn't it ln (-1)=pi(i)?

Mark Vincent Mamigo - 6 years, 5 months ago

Absolutely. Although it can't be graphed on an x {x} y {y} plane

Curtis Clement - 6 years, 5 months ago

There is a method, though, of assigning a value, (known as the Cauchy principal value ), to an improper integral such as this. In this case the value would be 0 0 . (I was mildly concerned that this was the value you had in mind; I always get a bit nervous when it comes to multiple-choice questions. :))

P.S.. I can't seem to attach links anymore when making comments to solutions. Is there a trick to doing this?

Brian Charlesworth - 6 years, 5 months ago

Let me test that: Community .

You should be able to link using the markdown syntax of

[title](URL Link)

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

O.k., thanks for testing that. I did the usual thing, starting with [Cauchy principal value](, and then tried to bring a copy of the link down into place, only to have the copy just disappear. It's been doing that for a few days when trying to post links in comments, so I just thought I'd ask if the method had changed. I can still type out the address, (as I have now done in my edited initial comment), and have the link posted, but this is not ideal as some addresses are prohibitively long. Anyway, the problem would seem to be at my end, then, so I'll now try to figure out the cause of the glitch. Thanks again.

P.P.S.. The question you've linked to has been deleted. I'm curious as to what it was.

Brian Charlesworth - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Brian Charlesworth It was π 3 0 ( tan x ) ( tan 2 x ) ( tan 3 x ) \displaystyle\int_{\frac{\pi}{3}}^{0} (\tan x)(\tan 2x)(\tan 3x) .

Sorry I deleted it knowing that it does not converge!

@Calvin Lin If you want to link that question, add it again with an edit like "Answer 1729 if it does not exist".

Pranjal Jain - 6 years, 5 months ago

I really don't know much about calculus and my answer's probably stupid, but can you explain why you can't just do: 1:-1 ∫ x^(-1) = [0x^0] = 0

Katie Marsden - 6 years, 4 months ago

Can you please tell me then what is the value of integral 0 to pi secx dx.

Indranil Ghosh - 6 years, 5 months ago

the integral diverges as we tend to pi/2. See my explanation given below in 2nd answer.

Prakash Chandra Rai - 6 years, 5 months ago

How do we get around the problem of undefined integrand for x = 0 x=0 ? I'd say that the integral is actually lim t 0 1 t 1 t + t 1 1 t \lim_{t \rightarrow 0}{\int_{-1}^{-t}{\frac{1}{t}}+\int_t^1{\frac{1}{t}}} , not lim t 0 1 t 1 t + lim t 0 t 1 1 t \lim_{t \rightarrow 0}{\int_{-1}^{-t}{\frac{1}{t}}}+\lim_{t \rightarrow 0}{\int_t^1{\frac{1}{t}}} .

Jakub Šafin - 6 years, 5 months ago

Note that your limits should not be the same variable as the function that you are integrating. t 1 1 t d x t 1 1 x d x \int_t ^ 1 \frac{1}{t} \, dx \neq \int_t ^ 1 \frac{1}{x} \, dx . In particular, t t cannot be both a constant and a variable (esp for clarity of expression).

The first integral that you stated, where we remove an interval of equal radius about 0, is also known as the Cauchy Principle value. It requires us to make the assumption that one rate of change is dependent on the other (in fact, equal). This is not typical, especially when dealing with functions in many variables.

For example, when we consider 2 sided limits for derivative by first principles, we do not require to take lim h 0 f ( a + h ) f ( a h ) 2 h \lim_{h\rightarrow 0 }\frac{ f(a+h) - f(a-h) } { 2h } , but instead require the wider collection of lim h 0 , j 0 f ( a + h ) f ( a j ) h + j \lim_{h \rightarrow 0, j \rightarrow 0 } \frac{ f(a + h ) - f(a-j) } { h+j} .
If we took the first interpretation, then x |x| is differentiable at 0, with a derivative of 0. However, this is not what we would have expected. This highlights the danger of making the perturbations dependent on each other.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago
Tony Sprinkle
Jan 4, 2015

The function 1 x \frac{1}{x} has a discontinuity at x = 0 x = 0 ; it decreases without bound as we approach 0 0 from the left and increases without bound as we approach 0 0 from the right. Thus, we have to split up the integral at the discontinuity and use limits to evaluate:

1 1 1 x d x = lim a 0 1 a 1 x d x + lim b 0 + b 1 1 x d x \int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{x} dx = \lim_{a \to 0^-} \int_{-1}^a \frac{1}{x} dx + \lim_{b \to 0^+} \int_b^1 \frac{1}{x} dx

The antiderivative of 1 x \frac{1}{x} is ln x \ln |x| :

= lim a 0 ln x 1 a + lim b 0 + ln x b 1 = \lim_{a \to 0^-} \ln |x|\Big|_{-1}^a + \lim_{b \to 0^+} \ln |x|\Big|_b^1 = lim a 0 ( ln ( a ) ln 1 ) + lim b 0 + ( ln 1 ln b ) = \lim_{a \to 0^-} (\ln (-a) - \ln 1) + \lim_{b \to 0^+} (\ln 1 - \ln b) = lim a 0 ln ( a ) lim b 0 + ln b = \lim_{a \to 0^-} \ln (-a) - \lim_{b \to 0^+} \ln b

Since these limits don't exist, the integral can't be evaluated.

Note: It is best to use distinct variables.

One might be tempted at the end to say that

lim a 0 ln ( a ) lim a 0 + ln a = lim a 0 ( ln a ln a ) \lim_{a \rightarrow 0^- } \ln (-a) - \lim_{a \rightarrow 0^+ } \ln a = \lim_{a \rightarrow 0 } ( \ln a - \ln a )

Instead, it is best to use the variable a a for the first, and b b for the second.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

Thanks! I've edited my solution accordingly.

Tony Sprinkle - 6 years, 5 months ago

This is explanation of the answer given by #Calvin Lin

Fundamental theorem of calculus says that differentiation is reverse process for integration only for the functions which are continuous in the interval. Since 1/x is discontinuous at x=0 , we can't integrate it using Fundamental Theorem of Calculus.

Now, we have to go to basics to find the answer.

If we divide the interval in infinitesimal rectangles, we have to see the area bounded by the rectangle as x approaches 0.

If we can neglect that area bounded by that rectangle, we can simply use Fundamental Theorem of calculus. (Reason: If we can neglect area bounded if x tends to 0, we can remove the point 0 from our domain, and if we remove point from our domain, we can use fundamental theorem of calculus).

A simple way to do this is to first to integrate it within the given limit without caring about any rule. If answer is finite, then only we can neglect that area. If the answer is infinite, then we can't neglect the area bounded by that rectangle. And if we can neglect the area bounded by that curve, we can use fundamental theorem of Calculus.

Reason why we can neglect the area when answer is finite:

If you know basics about convergent and divergent series, then it is easier to observe why we can do so. If we remove some terms from a convergent series, then the new generated series is also convergent and summation of a convergent series is always finite (more precisely,when number of terms will tend to infinity, then it will approach a finite limit).

Interestingly, if number of terms are infinite, then it doesn't matter how many finite terms you neglect, you will get the same answer. There are many more interesting properties of convergent and divergent series. I will post a question regarding this.

While if the series is divergent, Then it's summation will be infinite(more precisely,when number of terms will tend to infinity, then it will approach a infinite limit). Example of a divergent series is summation of terms in Harmonic Progression. Some Divergent series can be changed to convergent series by removing some finite terms. So, we can't neglect any term in a divergent series.

Here, we have removed the area bounded by the rectangle when x approaches 0. Here we have applied Fundamental Theorem of calculus, and got a infinite answer, then we can simply state that the initial series was divergent and if above series was divergent, we can't neglect the area bounded by that interval. And also,we can conclude nothing about area bounded by the rectangle as x approaches infinity. Hence, the integral doesn't exists.

Great answer.

Another way to understand it, is that when we try and take 1 ϵ 1 1 x d x + ϵ 2 1 1 x d x \int_{-1} ^ {- \epsilon_1} \frac{1}{x} \, dx + \int_{\epsilon_2} ^ 1 \frac{1}{x} \, dx

then the convergence of these integrals depend on the values of ϵ 1 , ϵ 2 \epsilon_1, \epsilon_2 . If we took ϵ 1 = ϵ 2 \epsilon_1 = \epsilon_2 (EG Cauchy Principal value), then these integrals cancel out and the limit exists. However, we were to say take ϵ 2 = 2 ϵ 1 \epsilon_ 2 = 2 \epsilon_1 , then the sum tends to negative infinity. As such, the limit does not exist, which is why the integral does not exist.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

More easy but Advanced Method, I don't know much about Cauchy Principal Value. But after all, It is small and nice method.

Prakash Chandra Rai - 6 years, 5 months ago

So why does 1 1 1 x 3 d x \int_{-1}^{1} \frac{1}{x^3}dx converge to 0?

Manvith Narahari - 6 years, 5 months ago

My apologies. It does not converge either, for the same reason.

I have fixed the integral and changed it to 1 1 s g n ( x ) x . 5 d x \int_{-1}^1 \frac{ sgn(x) } { |x|^{.5} } \, dx .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for clearing my concepts

U Z - 6 years, 5 months ago

You're Welcome

Prakash Chandra Rai - 6 years, 5 months ago
Mahmud Neto
Dec 31, 2014

Not quite, the integral of a real value function cannot be imaginary. You are using the wrong rule, namely that for negative values the integral is not ln x \ln x , but ln x \ln |x| instead.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago
Alex Menendez
Dec 31, 2014

The way I look at it, 1 x \frac{1}{x} has a discontinuity at zero, hence integrating on [ 1 , 1 ] [-1,1] doesn't make sense, so it gets rewritten as two separate integrals: lim a 0 1 a 1 x d x + lim b 0 + b 1 1 x d x = ( ( ln ( 0 ) ln ( 1 ) ) + ( ln ( 1 ) ln ( 0 + ) ) ) \lim_{a \to 0^-} \int_{-1}^{a} \frac{1}{x} \ dx + \lim_{b \to 0^+} \int_{b}^{1} \frac{1}{x} \ dx = \left((\ln(0^-)-\ln(-1)) + (\ln(1)-\ln(0^+)) \right) = + = -\infty + \infty Which doesn't exist.

it is obvious that the integral of 1/x w.r.t x is lnx whose asymptote is y=0, bt the interval is from -1 to 1 or twice the range from 0 to 1 and fortunately this does help us because we will have 2[ln1-ln0]=2ln1-2ln0=0-2ln0=-2ln0. the question is, what power of e will give zero? i can safely say the power should be of form -x for some pstive x so that e^-x will approach zero for some pstive x, the good news is it will not be zero, yep thus right. and so x must approach infinity and in turn, our desired results:it does not exist

Not really.

Note that if we are integrating over the negative numbers, then 1 x d x = ln x \int \frac{1}{x} \, dx = \ln |x| As such, when you integrate 1 0 1 x d x \int_{-1} ^ 0 \frac{1}{x} \, dx , what you will "get" is ln 0 ln 1 \ln 0 - \ln 1 (where i am using your logic). If so, this gives us ln 1 ln 0 + ln 0 ln 1 = 0 \ln 1 - \ln 0 + \ln 0 - \ln 1 = 0 , instead of 2 ln 0 - 2 \ln 0 .

Your logic of "no value of x works" is not valid. For example, 1 1 1 x 3 d x = 0 \int_{-1}^1 \frac{1}{x^3} \, dx = 0 , even though there is no value of x x such that 0 = 2 x 2 0 = \frac{-2}{x^2} .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

I think that this integral is also not defined i.e. it is divergent.

Prakash Chandra Rai - 6 years, 5 months ago
Hugh Entwistle
Jan 4, 2015

Without any intuition as to the properties of the asymptotes on the curve y = 1/x, by simply integrating we reach the solution: ln(1) - ln(-1) We know that the natural log of 1 is 0 but the natural log of any negative number is undefined. Hence we cannot assign a value in this case.

Not really. Note that if we are integrating over the negative numbers, then 1 x d x = ln x \int \frac{1}{x} \, dx = \ln |x| .

The function 1 x \frac{1}{x} is real valued, hence when we integrate it over the negative numbers we do not get a complex value.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago
Rwitaban Goswami
Dec 29, 2014

Simply, integrating 1/x gives us lnx So the definite integral equals ln1 - ln(-1) Since ln-1 cannot be defined, the answer is does not exist

Not quite.

The definite integral is only defined for x > 0 x > 0 . We have:

For x > 0 x > 0 , 1 x d x = ln x + C \int \frac{1}{x} \, dx = \ln x + C .

It does not include the case of x < 0 x < 0 . To deal with the indefinite integral on the region x < 0 x < 0 , we have

For x < 0 x < 0 , 1 x d x = ln x + C \int \frac{1}{x} \, dx = \ln |x| + C .

The issue comes about when we want to integrate "across" 0, which we are not allowed to do.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

Isn't area under a curve supposed to be the same as the result of definite integral? Also, I don't quite remember/understand why the parts don't cancel out when the graph is symmetric? It's been 5 years since I have solved anything math related, so I feel like a noob again... :) Also, could you give me a link to some place where I can maybe read more about this? Thanks!

Bharadwaj Srigiriraju - 6 years, 5 months ago

Not quite. It is the same when the integral is well defined (and finite). In this case, because the integral is not well defined, this interpretation is not valid.

Essentially, what this integral is saying, is that we cannot evaluate \infty - \infty as an arithmetic operation. We cannot say that the value is 0, or 1, or anything else.

In another sense, "parts cancel out as this graph is symmetric" is essentially saying that 1 1 + 1 1 + 1 1 + 1 1 + 1 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 -1 + \ldots is equal to 0. This expression is also not well defined. (If it has to be assigned a value, it would be 1 2 \frac{1}{2} by cesaro summation.)

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Calvin Lin Thanks for the explanation Calvin... :)

Bharadwaj Srigiriraju - 6 years, 5 months ago

@Calvin Lin Ah, the good 'ol Grandi's series! :)

Prasun Biswas - 6 years, 5 months ago

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