Inspired by Rama Devi

Calculus Level 5

There are 3 concentric circles with center O O and radii 3 , 5 , 7 3,5,7 units. Points A , B , C A,B,C are respectively on these circles, one on each circle.

When A B 2 + B C 2 + C A 2 AB^2+BC^2+CA^2 is maximized, what is the value of sin A O B \sin \angle AOB (to 3 decimal places)?


Inspiration


The answer is 0.866.

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2 solutions

Jon Haussmann
Jun 7, 2015

Let a = O A \vec{a} = \vec{OA} , b = O B \vec{b} = \vec{OB} , c = O C \vec{c} = \vec{OC} . Then a = 3 |\vec{a}| = 3 , b = 5 |\vec{b}| = 5 , c = 7 |\vec{c}| = 7 , and

A B 2 + A C 2 + B C 2 = a b 2 + a c 2 + b c 2 = 2 a 2 + 2 b 2 + 2 c 2 2 a b 2 a c 2 b c . \begin{aligned} AB^2 + AC^2 + BC^2 &= |\vec{a} - \vec{b}|^2 + |\vec{a} - \vec{c}|^2 + |\vec{b} - \vec{c}|^2 \\ &= 2|\vec{a}|^2 + 2|\vec{b}|^2 + 2|\vec{c}|^2 - 2 \vec{a} \cdot \vec{b} - 2 \vec{a} \cdot \vec{c} - 2 \vec{b} \cdot \vec{c}. \end{aligned}

Also, a + b + c 2 0 |\vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c}|^2 \ge 0 , which gives a 2 + b 2 + c 2 + 2 a b + 2 a c + 2 b c 0. |\vec{a}|^2 + |\vec{b}|^2 + |\vec{c}|^2 + 2 \vec{a} \cdot \vec{b} + 2 \vec{a} \cdot \vec{c} + 2 \vec{b} \cdot \vec{c} \ge 0. Then A B 2 + A C 2 + B C 2 3 a 2 + 3 b 2 + 3 c 2 = 249 AB^2 + AC^2 + BC^2 \le 3|\vec{a}|^2 + 3|\vec{b}|^2 + 3|\vec{c}|^2 = 249 . Thus, A B 2 + A C 2 + B C 2 AB^2 + AC^2 + BC^2 is maximized when a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = \vec{0} .

Then a + b = c \vec{a} + \vec{b} = -\vec{c} , so a + b 2 = c 2 |\vec{a} + \vec{b}|^2 = |\vec{c}|^2 , and a b = 49 9 25 2 = 15 2 . \vec{a} \cdot \vec{b} = \frac{49 - 9 - 25}{2} = \frac{15}{2}. Then cos A O B = a b a b = 15 / 2 3 5 = 1 2 . \cos \angle AOB = \frac{\vec{a} \cdot \vec{b}}{|\vec{a}||\vec{b}|} = \frac{15/2}{3 \cdot 5} = \frac{1}{2}. This means A O B = 6 0 \angle AOB = 60^\circ , and sin A O B = 3 2 \sin \angle AOB = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2} .

There is the question of whether such a triangle exists, i.e. if a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = \vec{0} can occur. This is left as an exercise for the reader. (Note that this condition implies the centroid of triangle A B C ABC is O O .)

Moderator note:

What is the simple geometric condition for a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = 0 ?

Great solution, leaving it in vector form.

I was trying to deal with the more general case, but got stuck (and didn't recognize) the scenario of a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = 0 .

In the scenario where c > a + b c > a + b , I believe that the maximum occurs when they 3 points lie on a line, with O between C and AB.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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a + b + c = 0 \vec{a}+\vec{b}+\vec{c}=0 implies that the orthocenter coincides with the circumcenter, which means that A B C \triangle ABC is necessarily equilateral (or degenerate)

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

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I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. I think that you are confused with the incorrect work that you had been doing in your solution.

a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = 0 means that when the vectors are lined up, they form a closed loop. IE a triangle. This explains why when we are calculating the angle between a \vec{a} and b \vec{b} , we're simply doing a "cosine rule on 3-5-7 triangle".

Thus for triangle ABC to exist (as in the solution) <=> a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = 0 <=> the lengths of vectors satisfies the triangle inequality. Hence, I talk about the remaining case when the triangle doesn't exist, which is if a + b > c a+ b > c (or cyclic permutation).

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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@Calvin Lin Ah, I thought he set O O as the origin. My bad.

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

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@Nathan Ramesh O O is the origin. a = O A \vec {a} = \vec {OA } . He mentioned that a + b + c = 0 \vec{a} + \vec{b} + \vec{c} = 0 implies that "centroid = origin".

Maybe your confusion is from thinking that O is also the circumcenter?

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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@Calvin Lin Yeah. Whoops usually O O is the circumcenter.

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago
Nathan Ramesh
Jun 5, 2015

This solution was once correct, when the problem was misworded.


Here is how to get the right answer.

Notice how it is never given which point is on which circle, so the answer must be the same in all cases. Hence sin A O B = sin B O C = sin C O A , \sin \angle AOB=\sin \angle BOC=\sin\angle COA, where A O B + B O C + C O A = 2 π \angle AOB+\angle BOC+\angle COA=2\pi . It is not that hard to conclude this only happens when all angles are equal to 12 0 120^\circ which gives an answer of 3 2 \dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2} . Thanks Calvin :)

Moderator note:

This solution is completely incorrect. He was lucky in guessing the numerical answer, but it is not backed by mathematical rigor.

Fixed the problem.

FYI your claim that the angles are equal is wrong.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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Oh, rats. I guess you're right, but the only other way it can happen is with 3 collinear points.

I just tried to actually solve the problem but something is not working out. I circumvented the use of calculus and just used complex numbers instead, letting A = 3 a , B = 5 b , C = 7 c A=3a,B=5b,C=7c , for a , b , c a,b,c on the unit circle. Hence A B 2 = 5 b 3 a 2 = ( 5 b 3 a ) ( 5 b 3 a ) = ( 5 b 3 a ) ( 5 b 3 a ) = 34 15 ( a b + b a ) = 34 30 ( a b ) , AB^2=|5b-3a|^2=(5b-3a)\overline{(5b-3a)}=(5b-3a)(\tfrac{5}{b}-\tfrac{3}{a})=34-15(\tfrac{a}{b}+\tfrac{b}{a})=34-30\Re (\tfrac{a}{b}), and similarly for the other sides. After doing the other terms and simplifying, and WLOG setting a = 1 a=1 , it suffices to minimize 15 ( b ) + 21 ( c ) + 35 ( b c ) 15\Re (b)+21\Re (c)+35\Re (\tfrac{b}{c}) However, from b c = 1 bc=1 , we get b = 1 c b=\tfrac{1}{c} hence we want to minimize 36 ( b ) + 35 ( b 2 ) 36\Re (b)+35\Re (b^2) Letting ( b ) = cos x ( b 2 ) = cos 2 x = 2 cos 2 x 1 \Re(b)=\cos x\implies \Re(b^2)=\cos 2x=2\cos^2x-1 , we want to minimize 70 cos 2 x + 36 cos x 35 , 70\cos^2x+36\cos x-35, which doesn't happen when cos x = 1 2 \cos x=-\frac{1}{2} ...?

Please let me know if you see a mistake anywhere @Calvin Lin

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

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Why is b c = 1 bc = 1 ? They are any 2 complex numbers on the unit circle.
We have b c = 1 |bc|=1 , but that doesn't really help.

Up to that, you're on the right track. Converting the complex numbers in angles, we want to minimize
15 cos β + 21 cos γ + 35 cos ( β γ ) 15 \cos \beta + 21 \cos \gamma + 35 \cos ( \beta - \gamma ) .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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@Calvin Lin Thanks @Calvin Lin

Although the b c = 1 bc=1 thing was wrong, shouldn't it still give an expression that is minimized when cos x = 1 2 \cos x=-\frac{1}{2} ?

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

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@Nathan Ramesh Why? The expression after that is wrong.

IE 15 R ( b ) + 21 R ( c ) 36 R ( b ) 15 R(b) + 21 R(c) \neq 36 R(b) and 35 R ( b / c ) 35 R ( b 2 ) 35 R (b/c) \neq 35 R (b^2) .

I do not see how you can eliminate c c at all.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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@Calvin Lin Assuming b c = 1 bc=1 , the minimum should occur when cos x = 1 / 2 \cos x=-1/2 , but it doesn't, unless I did something else wrong...?

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

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@Nathan Ramesh The minimum of 70 cos 2 x + 36 cos x 35 70 \cos ^2 x + 36 \cos x -35 occurs at cos x = 36 2 × 70 \cos x = - \frac{ 36 } { 2 \times 70 } .

Why should it happen at cos x = 1 2 \cos x = - \frac{1}{2} ? You are solving a different question, why should the solution be identical to this question?

(Either that, or I'm really confused by what you mean).

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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@Calvin Lin The minimal case should be the minimal case in all subsets of cases, and for the subset such that b c = 1 bc=1 , there is a different minimal case, unless I am doing something wrong. @Calvin Lin

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

@Calvin Lin Got till the last expression, but not getting how to minimise it

Appan Rakaraddi - 6 years ago

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@Appan Rakaraddi Use Calculus. This problem is placed under Calculus after all.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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@Calvin Lin The problem seems so nice that we shouldn't need calculus to solve it. The fact that O is the Fermat point of ABC (probably) has some nice connection to it. (The Fermat point being the point in A B C \triangle ABC such that A O B = B O C = C O A = 12 0 \angle AOB=\angle BOC=\angle COA=120^\circ , is also well known to minimize A O + B O + C O AO+BO+CO .)

Nathan Ramesh - 6 years ago

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@Nathan Ramesh No, O is not the Fermat point of ABC. Only A O B = 12 0 \angle AOB = 120 ^ \circ . The rest of the angles are different.

For all such triangles, we have O A + O B + O C = 3 + 5 + 7 OA + OB + OC = 3 + 5 + 7 . Just because O O is the point that minimizes the vertex sum for this particular triangle, doesn't have significant bearing on A B 2 + B C 2 + C A 2 AB^2 + BC^2 + CA^2 over all possible triangles with O A = 3 , O B = 5 , O C = 7 OA = 3, OB = 5, OC = 7 .

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

No, even with the miswording, this solution is not at all correct. As mentioned, the angles are not equal.

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years ago

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