⎩ ⎪ ⎪ ⎨ ⎪ ⎪ ⎧ x x 3 x 7 + + + y y 3 y 7 + + + z z 3 z 7 = = = 0 1 8 2 0 5 8
If x , y and z are complex numbers that satisfy the system of equations above and x 2 + y 2 + z 2 > 0 , find the value of x 1 0 + y 1 0 + z 1 0 .
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WoW! This is nice! +1
Synopsis : By Newton's Sum, we first find the value of x 2 + y 2 + z 2 . Then finish it off by considering the expression ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) ( x 7 + y 7 + z 7 ) .
Let P n denote the value of x n + y n + z n for positive integer n , then P 1 = 0 , P 3 = 1 8 , P 7 = 2 0 5 8 and we want to evaluate P 1 0 .
And let S n denote the symmetric sum of x , y and z . That is, S 1 = x + y + z = P 1 = 0 , S 2 = x y + x z + y z , S 3 = x y z .
Consider the equation X 3 − S 1 X 2 + S 2 X − S 3 = 0 . By Newton's sum,
P 2 − S 1 P 1 + 2 S 2 = 0 ⇒ S 2 = − 2 1 P 2 P 3 − S 1 P 2 + S 2 P 1 − 3 S 3 = 0 ⇒ S 3 = 6 P 4 − S 1 P 3 + S 2 P 2 − S 3 P 1 = 0 ⇒ P 4 = − S 2 P 2 ⇒ P 4 = 2 1 P 2 2 P 5 − S 1 P 4 + S 2 P 3 − S 3 P 2 = 0 ⇒ P 5 = − 1 8 S 2 + 6 P 2 ⇒ P 5 = 1 5 P 2 P 7 − S 1 P 6 + S 2 P 5 − S 3 P 4 = 0 ⇒ P 7 = − S 2 ( 1 5 P 2 ) + 6 ( 2 1 P 2 2 ) ⇒ P 7 = 2 2 1 P 2 2
Because P 7 = 2 0 5 8 , solving for P 2 > 0 yields P 2 = 1 4 .
Now consider the expression ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) ( x 7 + y 7 + z 7 ) :
P 3 × P 7 1 8 × 2 0 5 8 3 7 0 4 4 − P 1 0 P 1 0 = = = = = = = P 1 0 + ( x y ) 3 ( x 4 + y 4 ) + ( x z ) 3 ( x 4 + z 4 ) + ( y z ) 3 ( y 4 + z 4 ) P 1 0 + ( x y ) 3 ( P 4 − z 4 ) + ( x z ) 3 ( P 4 − y 4 ) + ( y z ) 3 ( P 4 − x 4 ) P 4 [ ( x y ) 3 + ( x z ) 3 + ( y z ) 3 ] − ( x y z ) 3 ( x + y + z ) P 4 [ ( x y + x z + y z ) 3 − 3 ( x + y + z ) ( x y + x z + y z ) + 3 ( x y z ) 2 ] P 4 [ S 2 3 + 3 ⋅ 6 2 ] − 1 6 1 P 2 2 ( P 2 3 − 8 6 4 ) 6 0 0 7 4
Nice way.....
@Pi Han Goh Although it is a very late reply , but still if possible , do reply please.!
Sir , after getting the equation a 3 − 7 a − 6 = 0 has roots x , y , z , Can we directly claim that the roots of the equation are 3 , − 2 , − 1 ???
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Yes, you can. Note that x , y , z also satisfy the equation A 3 + 7 A − 6 = 0 , can you explain how I formed this (other) cubic equation and why the roots of this cubic equation is eventually rejected?
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The condition x 2 + y 2 + z 2 > 0 rejected the other solution when x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = − 1 4 .
I too solved the question but just wanted to confirm what I did.
Thanks!!
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@Ankit Kumar Jain – No problem. To clarify, you need to show that the roots of x , y , z must satisfy the cubic equation a 3 − 7 a − 6 = 0 only, but this task is not an easy/obvious feat to accomplish (as shown in my solution and in Samarth's solution).
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@Pi Han Goh – Here is what I did , A very tedious one
x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = k , x y + y z + z x = 2 − k , x y z = 6
( x + y + z ) ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) = 0 = x 4 + y 4 + z 4 + x y ( x 2 + y 2 ) + y z ( y 2 + z 2 ) + z x ( z 2 + x 2 )
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 + x y ( k − z 2 ) + y z ( k − x 2 ) + z x ( k − y 2 )
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 − x y z ( x + y + z ) + k ( x y + y z + z x )
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 + ( 2 − k 2 ) = 0
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 = 2 k 2
Also , ( x y + y z + z x ) 2 = x 2 y 2 + x 2 z 2 + z 2 y 2 + 2 x y z ( x + y + z ) = 4 k 2
⇒ x 2 y 2 + x 2 z 2 + z 2 y 2 = 4 k 2
Now , ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) ( x 4 + y 4 + z 4 ) = x 7 + y 7 + z 7 + x 3 y 3 ( x + y ) + x 3 z 3 ( x + z ) + z 3 y 3 ( y + z )
⇒ x 7 + y 7 + z 7 − x y z ( x 2 y 2 + x 2 z 2 + z 2 y 2 )
Using the values and simplifying gives k = 1 4 , − 1 4
After this , we can form the cubic and proceed our work by observing that the roots of the cubic corresponding to k = 1 4 are − 1 , − 2 , 3
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@Ankit Kumar Jain – Wonderful exposition!
Don't sell yourself short, this is great, and not (really) tedious. Your solution is definitely simpler and better than both my solution and Samarth's solution.
You should post your comment as a solution.
@Pi Han Goh – Hope this works too! :)
x + y + z = 0 ⇒ x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 3 x y z ⇒ x y z = 6
x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = k , x y + y z + z x = 2 − k
( x + y + z ) ( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) = 0 = x 4 + y 4 + z 4 + x y ( x 2 + y 2 ) + y z ( y 2 + z 2 ) + z x ( z 2 + x 2 )
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 + x y ( k − z 2 ) + y z ( k − x 2 ) + z x ( k − y 2 )
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 − x y z ( x + y + z ) + k ( x y + y z + z x )
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 + ( 2 − k 2 ) = 0
⇒ x 4 + y 4 + z 4 = 2 k 2
( x y + y z + z x ) 2 = x 2 y 2 + x 2 z 2 + z 2 y 2 + 2 x y z ( x + y + z ) = 4 k 2
⇒ x 2 y 2 + x 2 z 2 + z 2 y 2 = 4 k 2
( x 3 + y 3 + z 3 ) ( x 4 + y 4 + z 4 ) = x 7 + y 7 + z 7 + x 3 y 3 ( x + y ) + x 3 z 3 ( x + z ) + z 3 y 3 ( y + z )
⇒ x 7 + y 7 + z 7 − x y z ( x 2 y 2 + x 2 z 2 + z 2 y 2 ) = 9 k 2
⇒ 2 0 5 8 − ( 6 ) ( 4 k 2 ) = 9 k 2
Simplifying gives k = 1 4 , − 1 4 . But we reject k = − 1 4 as per the condition that x 2 + y 2 + z 2 > 0
After this , we can form the cubic equation with roots x , y , z as we know the elementary symmetric sums :
x + y + z = 0 , x y + y z + z x = − 7 , x y z = 6
⇒ a 3 − 7 a − 6 = 0 ⇒ a = − 1 , − 2 , 3
∴ ( x , y , z ) = ( − 1 , − 2 , 3 )
∴ x 1 0 + y 1 0 + z 1 0 = ( − 1 ) 1 0 + ( − 2 ) 1 0 + 3 1 0 = 6 0 0 7 4
Your solution looks way more natural and easier than the other 2 solutions, you should receive more upvotes!
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Thanks a lot sir!!
Sir , I received a notification that Brilliant Mathematics commented on Is it Really Hard, but the comment was yours. How?
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Hahaha, I don't know. I can't answer this. you should ask the staffs about it.
Sir can you help me out with this problem.
I am sorry to post this in this discussion forum , but since there were no solutions to the question , I had no other choice.
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Hint: LHS = product of fractions <<< find its partial product first, then take its limit
RHS = ratio of infinities = undefined.
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@Pi Han Goh – Ohh! I missed that undefined part. Thanks!
Sir , can we say that LHS is tending to 0 ?
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@Ankit Kumar Jain – Yes yes, for telescoping sum/product, you must always find the partial sum/product first, then only take its limit.
Yes, LHS is tending to 0...
As x + y + z = 0 ,
x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 3 x y z = 1 8 ⇒ x y z = 6
Now (according to me) after checking the possible cases x = 3 , y = − 2 and z = − 1 .
For cross-checking, x 7 + y 7 + z 7 = ( 3 ) 7 + ( − 2 ) 7 + ( − 1 ) 7 = 2 0 5 8
Therefore, x 1 0 + y 1 0 + z 1 0 = ( 3 ) 1 0 + ( − 2 ) 1 0 + ( − 1 ) 1 0 = 6 0 0 7 4
Wow Fast!!
But I think you need to prove that it is the only solution for x,y,z.
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Every time I meet with this kind of situation, I would choose a particular substitution to look for the only outcome. Whatever it is for x, y and z, since we know that thing wanted shall be the only value or otherwise indeterminate, I usually don't bother about determining all their possible values because we only want what we want. This won't be wrong.
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Your reasoning is wrong. Counterexample:
x = 3 2 / 3 3 2 7 + 1 7 5 8 − 3 3 ( 2 8 + 1 7 5 8 ) 7 y = 2 3 3 ( 2 7 + 1 7 5 8 7 ( 1 − i 3 ) − 2 × 3 2 / 3 ( 1 + i 3 ) 3 2 7 + 1 7 5 8 z = 2 3 3 ( 2 7 + 1 7 5 8 7 ( 1 + i 3 ) − 2 × 3 2 / 3 ( 1 − i 3 ) 3 2 7 + 1 7 5 8
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@Pi Han Goh – Sorry that I do not wish to evaluate them. Do they include (-2, -1, 3)? If the answer is no, then the wanted answer is not sole. However, this is a problem of question in such a way. If (-2, -1, 3) does not satisfy, then only I shall look for others like this, I think.
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Do they include (-2, -1, 3)?
Do they look like real numbers?
However, this is a problem of question in such a way
What does this mean?
You can't make the assumption that ( x , y , z ) = ( − 2 , − 1 , 3 ) . Just because one of the solution satisfy this condition, that doesn't make the answer unique.
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@Pi Han Goh – Not like real number.
It is a fault of question for being not unique but unfortunate and met with you who also like to search for a more complicated answer.
Yes, I agree with you. What I meant before was for cases that the answer shall always be the same with different (x, y, z) but not for not unique. Provided any correct alternative is available, you can claim for a score for giving a correct answer to the question. "Is it really hard?" was a question set just after a genuine question of 1, 2, 3 and 6; have you tried that question? I was blaming at this question as a 'Soalan Palsu' while answering it. However, I realize the mind of the question creator who said "Is it really hard?". Best wishes for you if you want to claim rather than to argue with them. I support your claim provided the alternative(s) you showed is/are correct!
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Not like real number.
What do you mean? Like a quaternion?
It is a fault of question for being not unique but unfortunate met with you who also like to search for a more complicated answer.
This is a level 5 (or level 4) question, I did not post a complicated answer. I've posted a complete solution that is necessary to convey all the important information. As opposed to just having "500,000 points on a parabolic curve".
Best wishes for you if you want to claim rather than to argue with them.
You're the one making the false claims, not me.
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@Pi Han Goh – Combinations of complex numbers. I introduce general number but not quaternion.
I noticed that it is usual to meet with Level 5 questions that were not supposed to be as assigned and therefore I see this question in a similar way. Never overlook general ways for calculus. They are the meaning and values behind every definite integral.
I thought you looked for score only. Getting one among all shall not be wrong. But it depends onto intention of people though. Well, I got no conflict with this question.
@Pi Han Goh – Just lazy to check. Sometime complex forms can resume into real numbers.
Well, y and z consist of i aren't they?
Problem of question means that it is not a fault of others like me who only gave a wanted answer, but it is a duty of the question not to be ambiguous.
Why not for wanting a value of x^10 + y^10 + z^10 as a trial? You can have other possible alternatives but this doesn't show that I cannot answer with (-2, -1, 3). We ought to realize limitation of people who makes issue and expect no perfection of question.
In other words, we are guessing what answer is wanted rather than a complete answer.
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Well, y and z consist of i aren't they?
You just answered your own question.
we are guessing what answer is wanted rather than a complete answer.
You're the only one doing that.
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S i n c e x + y + z = 0 x 3 + y 3 + z 3 = 3 x y z x y z = 6 L e t x y + y z + x z = a T h e n ( x + y + z ) 2 = x 2 + y 2 + z 2 + 2 a o r P 2 = − 2 a . . . . . . . . . . ( 1 ) L e t x , y , z b e t h e r o o t s o f e q u a t i o n x 3 + a x − 6 = 0 { ∵ x + y + z = 0 s o n o x 2 t e r m } x 3 = 6 − a x S q u a r i n g x 6 = 3 6 + ( a x ) 2 − 1 2 a x m u l t i p l y i n g b y x x 7 = 3 6 x + a 2 x 3 − 1 2 a x 2 ∑ x 7 = 3 6 ∑ x + a 2 ∑ x 3 − 1 2 a ∑ x 2 2 0 5 8 = 0 + 1 8 a 2 + 2 4 a 2 { b y ( 1 ) } a 2 = 4 9 P 2 > 0 ∴ a < 0 ∴ a = − 7 P 2 = 1 4 S o t h e e q u a t i o n b e c o m e s x 3 − 7 x − 6 = 0 x 3 = 7 x + 6 C u b i n g x 9 = 2 1 6 + 3 4 3 x 3 + 1 2 6 x ( 7 x + 6 ) m u l t i p l y i n g b y x x 1 0 = 2 1 6 x + 3 4 3 x 4 + 1 2 6 ∗ 7 ∗ x 3 + 1 2 6 ∗ 6 ∗ x 2 ∑ x 1 0 = 2 1 6 ∑ x + ( 1 2 6 ∗ 7 ) ∑ x 3 + ( 1 2 6 ∗ 6 ) ∑ x 2 + 3 4 3 ∑ x 4 = 0 + ( 1 2 6 ∗ 7 ∗ 1 8 ) + ( 1 2 6 ∗ 6 ∗ 1 4 ) + 3 4 3 ∑ x 4 B y n e w t o n ′ s i d e n t i t y : P 4 = S 1 P 3 − S 2 P 2 + S 3 P 1 = 0 + ( 7 ∗ 1 4 ) + 0 = 9 8 S o , ∑ x 1 0 = ( 1 2 6 ∗ 7 ∗ 1 8 ) + ( 1 2 6 ∗ 6 ∗ 1 4 ) + ( 3 4 3 ∗ 1 4 ) O n s o l v i n g x 1 0 + y 1 0 + z 1 0 = 6 0 0 7 4 .