Is the question right ?

Algebra Level 5

{ x + y + z = 4 x 2 + y 2 + z 2 = 6 \large \begin{cases} \begin{aligned} x+y+z&=4 \\ x^2+y^2+z^2&=6 \end{aligned} \end{cases}

If x , y x,y and z z are real numbers that satisfy the equation above, and that they lie in the range of [ a b , c d ] \left [ \frac ab, \frac cd \right] for positive integers a , b , c a,b,c and d d such that gcd ( a , b ) = gcd ( c , d ) = 1 \gcd(a,b) = \gcd(c,d) = 1 , find the value of a + b + c + d a+b+c+d .


The answer is 8.

This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and, finally, (c) loading the non-javascript version of this page . We're sorry about the hassle.

3 solutions

By Cauchy-Schwarz inequality we know that:

2 ( x 2 + y 2 ) ( x + y ) 2 2(x^2+y^2) \geq (x+y)^2

Also, x + y = 4 z x+y=4-z and x 2 + y 2 = 6 z 2 x^2+y^2=6-z^2 , hence:

2 ( 6 z 2 ) ( 4 z ) 2 2(6-z^2) \geq (4-z)^2

12 2 z 2 16 8 z + z 2 12-2z^2 \geq 16-8z+z^2

0 3 z 2 8 z + 4 0 \geq 3z^2-8z+4

0 ( z 2 ) ( 3 z 2 ) 0 \geq (z-2)(3z-2)

Then, x x , y y or z z must lie in the range [ 2 3 , 2 ] [\frac{2}{3},2] , on comparing we get a = 2 , b = 3 , c = 2 , d = 1 a=2,b=3,c=2,d=1 , thus the answer is 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 8 2+3+2+1=\boxed{8} .

To prove that equality can be achieved:

The discriminant of the polynomial with roots x x and y y is ( x y ) 2 (x-y)^2 , and after a little manipulation we get ( x y ) 2 = 3 z 2 + 8 z 4 (x-y)^2=-3z^2+8z-4 , and this must be greater than or equal to zero, hence:

3 z 2 + 8 z 4 0 ( z 2 ) ( 3 z 2 ) 0 2 3 z 2 -3z^2+8z-4\geq 0 \\ (z-2)(3z-2) \leq 0 \\ \dfrac{2}{3} \leq z \leq 2

So, x x and y y will be real when z z is in that range.

Cool . Nice solution

Aman Rajput - 5 years, 9 months ago

You should still verify that equality could be achieved. You have found a necessary bound, but (especially with inequalities) is it sufficient?

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

is this solution not complete ?? i think this one is good.. and no other checks are to be applied ..

if not ? then please tell me sir

Aman Rajput - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

It is not complete. There is currently no justification for "If z = 1 z = 1 , then there exists corresponding real values of x , y x, y that will satisfy the conditions given in the question."

As explained, he found a necessary condition, but he hasn't demonstrated that it is a necessary condition.

For example, if we were asked to "minimize f ( z ) = z 2 2 z + 1 + z 2 4 z + 4 f(z) = z^2 - 2z + 1 + z^2 - 4z + 4 , we cannot say that "Since f ( z ) = ( z 1 ) 2 + ( z 2 ) 2 0 + 0 f(z) = ( z - 1) ^2 + (z-2) ^2 \geq 0 + 0 , hence the minimum value of f ( z ) f(z) is 0. ". All that we have found is a lower bound (necessary condition for a minimum), and we have not demonstrated that it is the greatest lower bound (sufficient condition for a minimum).

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

@Calvin Lin Ok, thanks. But I don't know how to prove that, I'm still new at some inequalities.

Alan Enrique Ontiveros Salazar - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Calvin Lin okay ... i got it ... so how we can make the solution complete ?

Aman Rajput - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

@Aman Rajput Prove that the equations x + y = 4 z x + y = 4 - z and x 2 + y 2 = 6 z 2 x^2 + y^2 = 6 - z^2 has real roots when z z is in the range as stated.

This follows from setting up the quadratic polynomial and checking that the discriminant is non-negative.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

@Calvin Lin Well, the discriminant of the polynomial with roots x x and y y is ( x y ) 2 (x-y)^2 , and after a little manipulation we get ( x y ) 2 = 3 z 2 + 8 z 4 (x-y)^2=-3z^2+8z-4 , and this must be greater than or equal to zero, hence:

3 z 2 + 8 z 4 0 ( z 2 ) ( 3 z 2 ) 0 2 3 z 2 -3z^2+8z-4\geq 0 \\ (z-2)(3z-2) \leq 0 \\ \dfrac{2}{3} \leq z \leq 2

So, x x and y y will be real when z z is in that range.

Alan Enrique Ontiveros Salazar - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

@Alan Enrique Ontiveros Salazar Right! This demonstrates that we do indeed have a sufficient condition.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

@Calvin Lin Oh, I see, I learned something new today, thanks.

Alan Enrique Ontiveros Salazar - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

@Alan Enrique Ontiveros Salazar Can you add that into the solution? Thanks!

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

@Calvin Lin That was wonderful :) :)

Aman Rajput - 5 years, 9 months ago

Discriminant of which polynomial?

Saarthak Marathe - 5 years, 9 months ago
Otto Bretscher
Aug 31, 2015

At the point where z z attains its maximum, we must have x = y x=y , by symmetry; likewise for the minimum of z z . Solving 2 x + z = 4 2x+z=4 and 2 x 2 + z 2 = 6 2x^2+z^2=6 leads to the equation 3 z 2 8 z + 4 = 0 3z^2-8z+4=0 , with solutions z m a x = 2 = 2 1 z_{max}=2=\frac{2}{1} and z m i n = 2 3 z_{min}=\frac{2}{3} , so a + b + c + d = 8 a+b+c+d=\boxed{8}

I'm always iffy with "where something attains its maximum, something else must be equal", even if symmetry is present. Slightly more justification needs to be provided.

See Inequalities with strange equality conditions for examples.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

I always like to visualize things, if I can. The solution set, being the intersection of a sphere and a plane, is a non-horizontal circle with a unique highest point ( x , y , z m a x ) (x,y,z_{max}) . Since the solution set is symmetric in x x and y y , we must have ( x , y , z m a x ) = ( y , x , z m a x ) (x,y,z_{max})=(y,x,z_{max}) , so x = y x=y .

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 9 months ago

Log in to reply

Perfect! That's a great explanation.

It certainly gets tricky when the intersection isn't a nice convex set, which is how those inequalities result in "off" points. E.g. if the intersection was of the form x y 1 \left | | x -y | - 1 \right | , then the minimum is not when x = y x = y .

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago
Pranay Kumar
Aug 29, 2015

substituting x in 2nd equation => (4-(y+z)) ^2+y^2+z^2=6

y^2+y(z-4)+z^2-4z+5=0 solving quadratic for y=> y= { (4-z) +/ - sqrt( -3z^2+8z-4) } /2; which gives 3z^2-8z+4 should be >=0; => z lies between {2/3, 2 } for these values y lies in {2/3, 1 } same goes for x; so final range {2/3, 2/1} => a+b+c+d=8;

Moderator note:

Since the equations are symmetric in x , y , z x, y, z , it doesn't quite make sense to me that your ranges are different.

Since the equations are symmetric in x , y , z x, y, z , it doesn't quite make sense to me that your ranges are different.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 9 months ago

0 pending reports

×

Problem Loading...

Note Loading...

Set Loading...