Is it just AM-GM?

Algebra Level 4

Given that x 1 + x + y 1 + y + z 1 + z = 2 , \dfrac{x}{1+x}+\dfrac{y}{1+y}+\dfrac{z}{1+z}=2, where x , y , z x,y,z are non-negative real numbers, what is the minimal value of x y z xyz ?


The answer is 8.

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4 solutions

We have: x 1 + x = 1 y 1 + y + 1 z 1 + z = 1 1 + y + 1 1 + z 2 1 ( 1 + y ) ( 1 + z ) \dfrac{x}{1+x}=1-\dfrac{y}{1+y}+1-\dfrac{z}{1+z}=\dfrac{1}{1+y}+\dfrac{1}{1+z}\ge2\sqrt{\dfrac{1}{(1+y)(1+z)}} .

Similarly, we get y 1 + y 2 1 ( 1 + x ) ( 1 + z ) ; z 1 + z 2 1 ( 1 + x ) ( 1 + y ) \dfrac{y}{1+y}\ge2\sqrt{\dfrac{1}{(1+x)(1+z)}};\dfrac{z}{1+z}\ge2\sqrt{\dfrac{1}{(1+x)(1+y)}} .

Hence, x y z ( 1 + x ) ( 1 + y ) ( 1 + z ) 8 ( 1 + x ) ( 1 + y ) ( 1 + z ) \dfrac{xyz}{(1+x)(1+y)(1+z)}\ge\dfrac{8}{(1+x)(1+y)(1+z)} or x y z 8 xyz\ge8 .

Equality occurs when x = y = z = 2 x=y=z=2 .

nice solution bro

Reynan Henry - 4 years, 4 months ago

Good Solution!! @Khang Nguyen Thanh

Ankit Kumar Jain - 4 years, 4 months ago

Very nice...

I Gede Arya Raditya Parameswara - 4 years, 3 months ago

Can provide some books to clear imo inequality

Sita Ram - 4 years, 3 months ago
Reynan Henry
Jan 14, 2017

expanding x 1 + x + y 1 + y + z 1 + z = 2 \frac{x}{1+x}+\frac{y}{1+y}+\frac{z}{1+z}=2 we get x y z = x + y + z + 2 xyz=x+y+z+2 . Now we use AM-GM

x y z = x + y + z + 2 3 x y z 3 + 2 t 3 = 3 t + 2 where t = x y z 3 0 t 3 3 t 2 0 ( t + 1 ) 2 ( t 2 ) \begin{aligned} xyz&=x+y+z+2\\ &\ge 3\sqrt[3]{xyz}+2 \\ t^3&=3t+2\text{ where }t=\sqrt[3]{xyz} \\ 0&\le t^3-3t-2\\ 0 &\le (t+1)^2(t-2)\end{aligned}

because ( t + 1 ) 2 (t+1)^2 is always positive for all real x , y , z x,y,z we must have x y z 3 = t 2 \sqrt[3]{xyz}=t\ge 2 so x y z 8 xyz\ge 8 and equality occurs when x = y = z = 2 x=y=z=2

AMHM is only applicable if x,y,z are non-negatives, so you have only shown that min(xyz) = 8 when x,y,z are non-negatives.

How do you know that "min(xyz) < 2" can't be true if at least one of x,y,z is not non-negative reals?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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it is fixed now

Reynan Henry - 4 years, 4 months ago

t^3>3t +2
t^3>t+2
t(t+1)(t-1)>2
t>(t(t+1)(t-1))^1/3
t>2^1/3
xyz^1/3>2^1/3
xyz>2
Where I went wrong??



Topper Forever - 4 years, 3 months ago

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You have only shown that xyz is greater than 2, but you didn't show that 2 is an attainable value.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 3 months ago
Fidel Simanjuntak
Jan 16, 2017

First, we note that x 1 + x = 1 1 1 + x \frac{x}{1+x} = 1 -\frac{1}{1+x} and so are the other equations. Then, we have

1 1 1 + x + 1 1 1 + y + 1 1 1 + z = 2 1 - \frac{1}{1+x} + 1 -\frac{1}{1+y} + 1 - \frac{1}{1+z} = 2

1 1 + x + 1 1 + y + 1 1 + z = 1 \frac{1}{1+x} + \frac{1}{1+y} + \frac{1}{1+z} = 1 .

By AM-HM inequality, we have

1 3 3 x + 1 + y + 1 + z + 1 \frac{1}{3} \quad \geq \quad \frac{3}{x+1+y+1+z+1}

Simplify, we have x + y + z 6 x + y + z \space \geq 6 .

Equality occurs when x = y = z = 2 x=y=z=2 .

Thus, x y z = 2 × 2 × 2 = 8 xyz= 2 \times 2 \times 2 = \boxed{8} .

This is wrong.

Simplify, we have x + y + z 6 x+y+z\geq 6 . <<<<< This line is correct

Equality occurs, when x = y = z = 2 x=y=z=2 . <<<< This line is correct

But why x y z = 8 xyz = 8 only?

Equality occurs when x = y = 1 , z = 4 x=y=1, z=4 , then x y z = 4 xyz = 4 gives smaller minimal value than your x y z = 8 xyz=8 .

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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I edited my solution. I hope my solution is much better now.. Thank you for your correction..

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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Still wrong.

we know that x+y+z >= 6, but does that mean that cuberoot(xyz) >= 2 as well?

Think about it this way: If A >= B and A >= C, does this mean that B>= C is definitely true?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Oh, i see. We already have x = y = z = 2 x=y=z=2 then, x y z = 8 xyz=8 . Isn't it correct?

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak why can't x=y=1, z=4 ==> xyz=4?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh If x = y = 1 x=y=1 and z = 4 z=4 , then the first equation isn't equal to 2.

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak Let me phrase it this way:

It is true that x=y=z=2 satisfy the given equation and gives xyz = 8, but how do you know that there are not other solutions of (x,y,z) that satisfy the given equation and gives a smaller value of xyz?

Right now, you claimed that you have proven it using HM GM, which I've pointed out that it's wrong. Did you know what went wrong here?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh No. Would you like to correct me? I think, this will be a grwat experience.

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak Okay, your line "x+y+z >= 6 " is the last line in your solution that is correct.

You claimed that because "x+y+z>= 6", then by AMGM, xyz>= 8", but that is completely not justified.

First of all, let A = x + y + z A = x+y+z and B = x y z B = xyz , then by AMGM, A 3 B 3 \dfrac A3 \geq \sqrt[3]{B} , correct?

So, if you simplify this inequality, you get 8 x y z 8 \geq xyz , not 8 x y z 8 \leq xyz .

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh So, is there any other mistake? I edited my solution.

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak No, it's still wrong. Read this line again:

It is true that x=y=z=2 satisfy the given equation and gives xyz = 8, but how do you know that there are not other solutions of (x,y,z) that satisfy the given equation and gives a smaller value of xyz?

Right now, you have only demonstrated that with ( x , y , z ) = ( 2 , 2 , 2 ) (x,y,z) = (2,2,2) gives x y z = 8 xyz=8 . But how do you know that there isn't another triplet of ( x , y , z ) (x,y,z) such that x y z < 8 xyz < 8 ?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Honestly, i don't know how. I'm not good at inequalities problem, that's why i still got a lot to learn. Can you help me?

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak I'm saying that your solution is wrong all along, and it's impossible to fix it using the methods that you've used.

If you want a correct approach, read Reynan Henry's solution.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Okay, i understand. I will delete my solution later on, because it's not justified. Thank you for your correction, i hope, i dont make you angry.. ehehehe

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak No worries. I'm not angry at all. We're all here to learn. It's okay to make mistakes.

I don't think it's necessary to delete your solution. Because next time, if you open up this link, you can still read through the discussion we have.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Pi Han Goh Okay, thank you, sir. Enjoy your day.

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

@Pi Han Goh By the way, i already provef it by HM-GM inequality..

Fidel Simanjuntak - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Fidel Simanjuntak no, that's incorrect. you've made a very common mistake when solving classical inequalities problems...

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 4 months ago

@pi Han goh thinks he is too smart but honestly he dosent know anything, he thinks that only he is correct and others are wrong, bcuz of such people others feel demoralised, so it is my order to u pi Han goh, dont ever do such stupid things

Topper Forever - 4 years, 2 months ago
Rab Gani
Jan 14, 2017

For the minimum value, we have to make x=y=z. So we have 3(x)/(1+x) = 2.Then x=2. So the minimum value of xyz=8

no that is not a solution

Reynan Henry - 4 years, 4 months ago

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It's a trick

Sahil Silare - 4 years, 4 months ago

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I believe what these people are saying is that the proof is not rigorous since there may be other bounds of the solution.

Michael Huang - 4 years, 4 months ago

That's the sneaky way to solve it, but i don't recommended always using it

Also i'm Indonesian too, nice to meet you Henry

Jason Chrysoprase - 4 years, 4 months ago

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If this question came in your exam then will you waste your time for complete solution for it or use the shortcut?

Sahil Silare - 4 years, 4 months ago

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Will this trick always work ? If it always work, i definitely use it

Jason Chrysoprase - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Jason Chrysoprase For some case, x=y=z will not work

Reynan Henry - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Reynan Henry For most cases actually.

Sharky Kesa - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Sharky Kesa Didn't expected that Sharky Kesa will reply to this post.

Sahil Silare - 4 years, 4 months ago

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@Sahil Silare I can give an example which looks like symmetry should work, but doesn't.

Maximise a 2 b + b 2 c + c 2 a a^2 b+b^2 c+c^2 a given a a , b b and c c are non-negative reals such that a + b + c = 1 a+b+c=1 .

Sharky Kesa - 4 years, 4 months ago

Done the same thing

Sahil Silare - 4 years, 4 months ago

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