It's About Time

Geometry Level 4

At what time between 8:15 and 8:20 do the minute hand and the hour hand of an (ideal) analog clock make the same angle with the vertical?

Give your answer in seconds after 8:15, rounded to the closest second.


The answer is 208.

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3 solutions

Let θ \theta be the (clockwise) angle (in radians) between the minute hand and the 12:00 vertical, and let α \alpha be the (clockwise) angle between the hour hand and the 8:00 radial line. Then θ \theta will be the same fraction of a full circle as α \alpha is of one-twelfth of a circle, (i.e., the angle the hour hand sweeps through in one hour). Thus

θ 2 π = α π 6 θ = 12 α \dfrac{\theta}{2\pi} = \dfrac{\alpha}{\dfrac{\pi}{6}} \Longrightarrow \theta = 12\alpha .

For the hour hand to then make the same (counterclockwise) angle with the 12:00 vertical as the (clockwise) angle the minute hand makes with the 12:00 vertical, we require that

θ = π 2 + ( π 6 α ) θ + α = 2 π 3 \theta = \dfrac{\pi}{2} + \left(\dfrac{\pi}{6} - \alpha\right) \Longrightarrow \theta + \alpha = \dfrac{2\pi}{3}

θ + θ 12 = 2 π 3 13 12 θ = 2 π 3 θ = 8 π 13 \Longrightarrow \theta + \dfrac{\theta}{12} = \dfrac{2\pi}{3} \Longrightarrow \dfrac{13}{12}\theta = \dfrac{2\pi}{3} \Longrightarrow \theta = \dfrac{8\pi}{13} .

In minutes past 8:15, the angle θ \theta translates to

θ 2 π 60 15 = 4 13 60 15 = 240 13 15 = 45 13 \dfrac{\theta}{2\pi} * 60 - 15 = \dfrac{4}{13} * 60 - 15 = \dfrac{240}{13} - 15 = \dfrac{45}{13} minutes,

which in turn translates to 45 13 60 = 207.6923... \dfrac{45}{13}*60 = 207.6923... seconds, the nearest integer to which is 208 \boxed{208} .

Very lucid explanation, as we have come to expect from you! Thanks! (+1)

Here is the source with solution ("Hier geht es zur Lösung")

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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Thanks! This solution is special to me in that it is the 1000th I have posted here on Brilliant. :)

Brian Charlesworth - 5 years, 3 months ago

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Congrats! I see that you are breaking records every day with your amazing streak...

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

I solved it similarly to the Spiegel online solution (used degrees instead of radians), but solved the

112.5 t 120 = 112.5 - \frac {t}{120} = 90 + t 10 90 + \frac{t}{10} equation in order to get the result directly in seconds 207.692307690328 ~ 208 \boxed{208} seconds.

Zee Ell - 5 years, 3 months ago

Mt. hand moves a distance of 1 m i n u t e \color{#3D99F6}{minute} in 60 s.
Hr. hand moves a distance of 1/12 m i n u t e \color{#3D99F6}{minute} in 60 s.
So they move towards one another at (1+1/12)= 13/12 m i n u t e \color{#3D99F6}{minute} per 60 s.
13 / ( 12 × 60 ) m i n u t e p e r s . \implies~ 13/(12\times60)~ \color{#3D99F6}{minute}~ per~ s.
The distance between them is (5 - 5/4) = 15\4 m i n u t e \color{#3D99F6}{minute}
t=d/v. So (15/4) / (13/720)=207.69231 s. ANSWER 208.



Note. at 8.15, Mt. hand has moved towards 9 by one fourth of distance between 8 and 9 o'clock.
At the end they do not meet but make the same angle with vertical.

Yes that's another good way to think about it (+1)

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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Thank you. I generally avoid your questions as beyond me !

Niranjan Khanderia - 5 years, 3 months ago

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Well, there will be no more questions from me; I'm getting out! Wishing you all the best!

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Why sir? Your questions are awesome! (Though I am not able to solve them.)

Harsh Shrivastava - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Harsh Shrivastava There is too much hostility and uncivilized behavior on Brilliant... I'm tired of it

Otto Bretscher - 5 years, 3 months ago

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@Otto Bretscher Wait!Why, not all people are uncivilized!

Your problems are source of inspiration for many (including me) to learn pure mathematics.

But its upto you.

Best of luck for future!

Harsh Shrivastava - 5 years, 3 months ago

@Otto Bretscher I avoid it because they are hard for me. But I respect you and wish you continue. I do not understand how any one can be hositile. Such members must be warned. Please ignore them and continue. You are one of the few with so much to offer. The young ones are very intelligent and know much. But they can not offer as much. With regards.

Niranjan Khanderia - 5 years, 3 months ago

If you know that a minute hand moves 6°/ minute and the hour hand moves 0.5° per minute this problem would be quite easier.. First, compute for the angle of the minute hand from the vertical at exactly 8:15

\Rightarrow 15 × \times 6 = 90°

Next is the angle of the hour hand from the vertical at exactly 8:15

\Rightarrow 60 + 0.5(15) = 67.5°

(At 8:00, the angle formed from 12 to 8 is 240°. Subtracting 180° because the problem asks for the same angle at vertical which gives 60°)

Let x be the minutes passed after 8:15 so that the minute hand and the hour hand of an (ideal) analog clock will make the same angle with the vertical

90 6 x = 67.5 + 0.5 x 90 - 6x = 67.5 + 0.5x

90 67.5 = 6 x + 0.5 x 90 - 67.5 = 6x + 0.5x

22.5 6.5 = 6.5 x 6.5 \frac { 22.5 }{ 6.5 } =\frac { 6.5x }{ 6.5 }

x = 45 13 m i n u t e s x\quad =\quad \frac { 45 }{ 13 } minutes

Converting minutes to seconds 45 13 × 60 = 207.692 208 s e c o n d s \frac { 45 }{ 13 } \quad \times \quad 60\quad =\quad 207.692\quad \approx \quad 208\quad seconds

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